I was looking into what needs to be done to legally start a church, is it really as easy as filling out some forms?

Once established does there need to be church doctrine? (specially if we claim that use of entheogens is constitutionally protected)

We wrote one up anyway, and may actually try to legally start "the church of entheogenic gnosis"

I'm going to look into the laws regarding the NAC and peyote, in Colorado it says the laws are "racially neutral", so you shouldn't have to be a native to religiously use entheogens right?

Does the church have to involve Jesus to be seen as a real church?

I'm aware that many people have tried just this and failed, but honestly I don't see any reason not to try, so long as the never find any scheduled compounds on you and you hold church in secret then what's the risk? I actually believe that entheogens ARE protected by the constitution, the government can't out you in prison for practicing a religion...Santo daime and UDV won in court regarding ayahuasca...

If it's really as easy as filling out some forms and paying fines, then why would there not be more people trying to exercise their rights to entheogens by starting churches?

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Would this legally qualify as a church doctrine?

:church of entheogenic gnosis:

·Strict vegetarian or vegan diet

·Daily marijuana use

·Abstainence from alcohol and addictive/destrutive chemicals

·Commitment to non-violence (self-defense is permitted)

·Strict focus on spirituality, meditation and moral, positive living (negative music and entertainment are avoided, negative thoughts are avoided, negative speech and actions are avoided, all actions must be motivated by peace, love, unity, entheogenic gnosis and god)

·Rejection of materialism

·Rejection of dogma (these "guide-lines" for the church describe the consensus of what it means to be entheogenic as a spiritual (religious) path, they represent how we "generally" behave in and view the world and this existence, which brings us to the next point...)

·Self-reliance (this means spiritually, philosophically, and intellactually, meaning you rely on yourself to decide what is right and wrong, to decide what to think and feel about every situation for yourself, you follow no one and no doctrine or dogma, we follow the divine and the laws of the divine reveled to us through entheogens)

·We accept that the physical body is in no way a prerequisite for conscious existence, after death your "conscious-being" continues on in separate realms, however access to these realms of conscious-being, free from the physical body world, can be accessed through entheogens ALL religions are the exegesis of the psychedelic experience, we have traded exegesis for first hand experience, we don't read about God, we don't preach about God, we MEET God face to face, we EXPERIANCE God first hand, through entheogens, which are the sacred keys to the kingdom of the dead and gos as well as vehicles for travel interdimentionally and between the stars)

·Ceremonial use of entheogens (including high dose DMT initiation) (psilocybin is taken by the subject by themselves (with a sober person monitering the situation, but largely not being present) in near darkness and near silence) (LSD is used spiritually and psychologically and also used for large social events similar to Ken keseys acid tests) (marijuana was put on earth by God for daily use, to keep man happy, comfortable, free of stress and anger, spiritually inspired, and focused on peace, love and unity) (ayahuasca is used often) (other plant entheogens are used for several other purposes)

·Strong connection to nature, animals and mother earth

·Rejection of the egotistical, selfish, and prideful

·The key to "the church of entheogenic gnosis" is first hand experiance of the spiritual through entheogens, that's the core of it all, we don't rely on preaching or books or dogma, we do not have hierarchical power structures or leaders, we are all equal and all participate equally. The "guide-lines" above reflect the general attitude of the majority of the church, but as we all had reached such conclusions through our own personnel experiences and deep thought regarding spirituality, life, death, and the nature and meaning of existence, we expect spiritual, intellectual, and philosophical self-reliance, and reject the notion of forcing church members to conform to our conclusions, and if through your experiences you reach conclusions that differ from other church members, that's never an issue, we are all free to our personnel interpretations of spirituality, life, death, and existance, the one and only key factor that we all hold as a "belief" is that the spiritual, that God, should be experienced first hand through entheogens, that having to rely on books, preachers, and dogma is cheating yourself out of the first hand experience of the divine, we don't "take anybody's word for it", we EXPERIANCE our religion directly, and first hand.

---

Most would say it's a dumb idea, but NAC, Santo daime, UDV, temple of the true inner light, etc... we're all fairly successful as far as the law goes...

-eg

gnosis is a term specific to gnosticism. Is this going to be a gnostic church? If not I would refrain from using terms borrowed from other idealogies and simply applied loosely.

I personally am not interesting in other peoples religious organization and would not agree with a number of the rules outlines above. Why impose rigid systems of belief on other people, in order for them to celebrate psychedelic medicines?

This, is not what it is about, IMO..and I run far far away from organizations like this.

I understand wanting legal protection, but perhaps starting a church isn't the way. For one, unless you are prepared financially and otherwise to take in the federal government in court to establish legitimacy, I'd forget the idea. There will be litigation if you are successful, at some point. I know of an Aya church here trying to do the same who have expended over $40,000 in lawyer fees for filing briefs this year alone. My nonprofit just finished a fundraiser for them here, we made them like 20 or 30 bucks.

Also, I reiterate Jamie's point - why? You can join NAC and become a card carrying member, afforded all protective rights here in the us. " just "find and attend ceremony. Or if you're into it, dance for hours at a sante daime works.

I dont know, go for it if you want a bunch of grief for something not entirely useful but merely novel,
IMHO.

Anyone can start a church. It does not give you any more legal protection though. Many have tried this in the past: look at Rastafarian churches, pagan churches or even the more recent ONAC who all lost cases to use cannabis religiously.

The first amendment right isnt only for churches BTW - it is also for individuals. Anyone can have a "sincere religious practice" even if they arent part of a church.

If you want to prepare a religious defense by yourself there are a few things to focus on....

Your practice much "look" sincere and religious in nature. Basically this means it has some sort of doctrine and basic beliefs and also any ceremonies or rituals have at least a basic structure. It has to "look" religious to others.

It must not pose any danger to others. With entheogens this basically means that your stuff is locked up and not just distributed like a drug dealer. There has to be minimal risk of it getting to others outside of your religious practice. Also - you probably need to have records of all entheogens and the amounts distributed on what dates (you do not need to keep records of who they are distributed to).

Those are the two main points the DEA tried to use in their case against Santo Daime. SD won because they keep their medicine locked up and keep records of how much they have and how much is distributed when, and they also have a basic doctrine and ritual structure that looks religious in nature.

I feel the same way.... If one of the rules is no dogma then most of the other rules should be canned too since they are basically dogma.

And who wants rules to celebrate entheogens?

Either way, individuals have the same rights as churches under the first amendment.... Which sadly is not very much actually (I think this may be slowly changing though).

Given the changing climate and attitude around psychedelics, it might be more beneficial in the long run to get yourself a psychology degree approved for working with psychoactives. Unless robes and pointy hats are your thing though

Well, since individuals also have the same rights as churches to have their religious practices protected some might argue being in a church actually makes it a little more dangerous as you draw more attention to yourself. Growing for a big church, big meetings, public outreach, posting online about church meetings ect.....

I don't think large amounts imply commercial use. It could simply indicate that a person expects an influx of "believers" or that they plan to do "missionary" work. It could also simply be that some drugs (LSD?) can only be in large amounts.

The benefit of the doubt for this particular guy is no more than we would give any other religion that processes large quantities of resources for the sake of growth. I think we should be less skeptical of people who claim to use drugs (even large amounts) as part of a religion and more furious that the government throws freedom of religious (, spirituality, or whatever) out the window for such people. Personal religion is legal, culturally necessary, and good for humanity. Psychedelic drugs have been and will be used for millenia. By minimizing and apologizing for the religious practices of psychedelic drug users, we allow prejudicial opponents to frame the debate and continue to chip away at this essential right.

(That last bit of rhetoric was taken from this argument)

Yes, those churches have an inertia that a person (or a bunch) can't cope with. It's not only being or having the rights, but making it work.

Gnosis is the Greek word for knowledge, therefore entheogenic gnosis is "entheogenic-knowledge" or knowledge derived from entheogens, which is the core of the "church's" principles, actually it's the only principle and thus a fitting title.

I don't mean to be rude but I'm not sure you read the "guidelines" which imply strict intellectual, philosophical,and spiritual self reliance, rejection of dogma and finding spirituality as an individual IS the only guideline.

Though if people are not interested that's fine, we are not looking to convert anybody or gain members, we simply want to practice our religion in peace without oppression and harassment on the part of the system. (Keep in mind that marijuana is legal in my state, and the entheogenic ceremonies are held in secluded locations and are not held often, legal or not we are going to practice

...I feel the more legitimate spiritual organizations claiming these plants are out there the better the argument will be on the behalf of the legitimacy of entheogenic spirituality, the can't say "entheogens are not true sacraments" when there are many organizations claiming them.

This isn't a scam, I full heartedly believe and practice every "church" principle I have outlined, I feel all spirituality and religion are the exegesis of the psychedelic experience, entheogens are the first religion and the only true religion out there...I mean why take the word of a book or a preacher when you experience God first hand through entheogens?

...I'm getting off track though, I can understand your backlash, but trust me this is not ill thought and I'm not as "airy-fairy" as the majority of those with interest in forming a religion, and again I'm not a scam artist, I actually believe the things I say regarding entheogens and spirituality, and I feel the persecution of entheogenic spirituality needs to end.

-eg

·Self-reliance (this means spiritually, philosophically, and intellactually, meaning you rely on yourself to decide what is right and wrong, to decide what to think and feel about every situation for yourself, you follow no one and no doctrine or dogma, we follow the divine and the laws of the divine reveled to us through entheogens)

·The key to "the church of entheogenic gnosis" is first hand experiance of the spiritual through entheogens, that's the core of it all, we don't rely on preaching or books or dogma, we do not have hierarchical power structures or leaders, we are all equal and all participate equally. The "guide-lines" above reflect the general attitude of the majority of the church, but as we all had reached such conclusions through our own personnel experiences and deep thought regarding spirituality, life, death, and the nature and meaning of existence, we expect spiritual, intellectual, and philosophical self-reliance, and reject the notion of forcing church members to conform to our conclusions, and if through your experiences you reach conclusions that differ from other church members, that's never an issue, we are all free to our personnel interpretations of spirituality, life, death, and existance, the one and only key factor that we all hold as a "belief" is that the spiritual, that God, should be experienced first hand through entheogens, that having to rely on books, preachers, and dogma is cheating yourself out of the first hand experience of the divine, we don't "take anybody's word for it", we EXPERIANCE our religion directly, and first hand.

" we all had reached such conclusions through our own personnel experiences and deep thought regarding spirituality, life, death, and the nature and meaning of existence, we expect spiritual, intellectual, and philosophical self-reliance, and reject the notion of forcing church members to conform to our conclusions, and if through your experiences you reach conclusions that differ from other church members, that's never an issue"

I re-posted these two "guidelines" from the original post, there was some posts saying "why put rules on entheogens", and I feel they may have missed the point.

The guidelines were only made as a necessity, you have to have some philosophical and spiritual standards to be seen as a legitimate church legally, and when carefully read you will find these are not "guidelines" or "rules" at all, it simply says you must figure it out for yourself, and you do so by use of entheogens and deep personal exploration of spurituality.

Again this is what I believe spiritually, marijuana is legal here and due to the nature of how the other entheogens are used I'm not worried about being "busted", we don't really want to bring new members in either, we are not trying to convert anybody, but I feel I deserve to be able to practice my spirituality with out fear of persecution, I also want entheogenic spirituality to be seen as legitimate, and the more actual churches out there claiming entheogens as sacraments, the harder it will be for the legal system to deny entheogens are a legitimate and constitutionally protected religion.

Apparently it is as simple as filling out some forms and paying some fines, a friend of mine educated in law said it in no way guarantees legal protection (though constitutionally it should), but it really doesn't hurt your case if something does go wrong and you find yourself in a legal battle.

At first we were only half serious about all this, but the more I look into the more I'm considering finalizing all this.

Keep in mind I don't use entheogens for recreation, that's not the kind of use we are promoting here, I don't want to legally "get high", I want to practice my spirituality with out oppression and harassment, and I want entheogens to be seen legitimate as sacraments, we also prefer to be left alone, so a legal battle is highly unlikely to ever happen, though I still feel I should legally establish this thing.

I was more looking for advice regarding the actual processes involved with legally establishing a church, and not so much responses regarding the idea itself, but thank you all for the responses anyway.

-eg

Gnosis is the Greek word for knowledge.

As far as the word "Gnostic" is concerned, it simply means "one who holds knowledge" and is not limited to being a reference term for Gnosticism.

-eg

There are no rules, it was an attempt to describe the general philosophy of church members, but also says you must reach all conclusions on your own, and it also says if the conclusions you have reached differ from anybody else's in the church is not an issue, Buddha said "1000 people 1000 paths" (a saying with many meanings) if a person's individual experiences has lead them to reach conclusions different than yours, you are in no place to say they are wrong, which goes both ways.

There actually was some slight dogma, the idea that entheogens provide access to after death states, and that exploration of those states is crucial in spiritual practice. (It's also noted that humankind has used entheogens to experience spirituality since the neolitlithic, and in all likelihood the source of all spirituality is the entheogenic experiance, from the carvings at tasili n'ajjer, to soma of the Vedic texts, to the still practicing shamanic traditions around the globe, it should be obvious that entheogens are the earliest methods of experiencing spirituality first hand, and it was this experience that was the foundation of all spirituality and religion, only in modern times humans have settled for exegesis, and this exegesis has been corrupted, and transformed into books and hierarchical power structure...I'm getting off topic though...back to slight dogma in this church, There is also a high dose DMT initiation which all members must participate in, as well as daily marijuana use, and participation in ceremonies involving psiloc(yb)in fungi, mescaline cacti, lysergic acid diethylamide, and other entheogens, but other than that everything comes from personal exploration and study and strict intellectual, philosophical, and spiritual self reliance is a necessity.

There are now rules, and it's not to "celebrate entheogens", let me explain:

Conscious existence is not confined to the physical body, and having a physical body is not a prerequisite for conscious existence, at death your "conscious-being" leaves your physical body for other plains of existence...however be incarnate in a physical body also does not inhibit you from reaching these plains, through entheogens we gain access to.after-death states. We are celebrating life and our transition into the realms beyond it, entheogens are the the key to these plains, not the subject of celebration. To experience the spiritual first hand you must consume entheogens, but its experiencing the spiritual and God first hand that is being celebrated, not the vehicles that get us there.

To go to India (depending on where you start from) you must take a bus, a plane, a train, a car, a blimp, etc...you need a vehicle, ands just like physical travel to go to the after-death and the realms of the gods, as well as other dimensions and between the stars you must have a vehicle, you must take DMT, mescaline, psilocin, LSD, etc...the entheogens are simply vehicles, and while they are considered sacred and treated with the highest respect, they are not the focus of celebration, it's not really even a celebration, it's more like an exploration of conscious existence and simultaneous class in what to expect for when you leave your body at death. (Which is why I said it's basically shamanism)

It's not rules to take entheogens, it's guidelines on how to explore the spiritual first hand and obtain a deep understanding of life, death and consciousness, the fact that entheogens are involved is secondary to the spiritual states can attain through them. If there were another way to obtain this type of gnosis we would not bother with the entheogens, but unfortunately you can't induce after-death, mystical, or spiritual experiences on the natch any other way.

We have been living entheogeniclly for years, we have basically been a "church" for years, well we are a gathering of individuals who have found access to spirituality through entheogens (we all found the other "guidelines" individually, we don't preach "respect earth, promote peace and non-violence, respect animals (vegetarianism and veganism) or daily marijuana use, we all individually discovered that these were pathways to living a happy and spiritually full life, there's nothing unreasonable in any of those guide lines, it's peace, love, respect, responsibility, unity, and honor for plants, animals, and mother earth...I guess it may nit be for everybody, but through entheogens and spiritual study we have found that this is the way to live a happy and spiritually full life.

...sorry for the long post, I also didn't have time to edit so sorry if there are typos.

-eg

If you want to start a church - go ahead. It wont offer you anymore legal protection though - individuals have the same rights as churches as far as freedom of religion goes...

A large group can pool funds together but you dont need a church for that. Look at ICEERS for example (a group I totally support BTW): http://www.iceers.org/legal-defense.php#.Vl8mf3arTIU

While an individual can say "I practice entheogens as a religion and am thus protected by the first amendment" they will have to prove this, and if you belong to a recognized organization this becomes far easier.

Legal protection was not the goal here, banisteriopsis caapi, psychotoria viridis, peganum harmala, acacia confusa, trichocereus bridgesii, trichocereus pachanoi, and marijuana are all legal to buy, the marijuana is even legal to consume, the LSD and psilocin (as well as consumption of the plants which are legal to purchase) May be scheduled, but are used so discreetly that legal persecution isn't a real concern.

We don't try to convert others, you must be invited to join, we prefer to be left alone...however there are many situations where being legally recognized as a church would be benneficial to our organization and our cause, an I'm of course speaking of situations beyond legal protection. We wanted to form officially to gain legitimacy, to be recognized as a legitimate spiritual tradition and organization, we also seek to cement entheogens into legitimate sacraments for all traditions to consider incorporating.

now, there are recognized entheogenic traditions, however they either limit their entheogen use to a single compound, or adhere to some doctrine or dogma that eleminates the institution as a viable option to the intellectually and philosophically self-reliant.

This is not saying "if you want to use entheogens you have to do it with us and do them our way" this is a practice of spirituality, the goal is to live a happy, healthy, and moral life, while investigating the conscious existance that lays beyond our death.

...if you just want to use entheogens in a recreational manner than there's no reason for you to look to us, we are not trying to offer legal protection to people attempting to get high...

You could accept exegesis and read about Moses in front of the burning Bush and accept it on faith, or you can become Moses in front of the burning Bush and know truth.
(I know I used a monotheistic example, most of us have individually gone over every known religious tradition, and examples from buddhism, Hinduism, taoism, the monotheistic traditions, pagan traditions, etc... are often used, though our only real "belief" is that entheogens give you first hand access to the spiritual)


Rejecting the negative, daily marijuana use, strict vegetarian or vegan diet, dedicadion to compassion for animals and mother earth, commitment to non-violence (with exception of self-defense), use of many entheogens for spiritual and psychogogical purposes, rejecting the selfish, and the ego centered and materialistic, and dedicadion to fierce intellectual, philosophical, and spiritual self-reliance are in general the norms we adhere to in our community, we reject negative thought, speech, action, and enviroment, we promote peace, compassion, love, unity, respect, responsibility, self-reliance and a moral, positive and healthy way of living, and most importantly we recognize entheogens as being the vehicles for obtaining gnosis and guidance of the highest order and are essential for our spiritual practice.

-eg

I do. I think most of us wouldn't be here had someone not taken us under their psychedelic wing in the past.

I was reading some of the "ayahuascahealings" thread and people's opinions regarding objections to entheogenic religions, and I agree with a good deal of what was said...specially this whole "charging people large sums of money for spiritual/entheogenic services" thing, and it further goes to show the reasons why I (we) have avoided the existing entheogenic churches.

Though I feel the more legitimate organizations claiming sacramental entheogen use that are out there, the better chances entheogens have at being accepted as genuine and legitimate religious sacraments.

The church of entheogenic gnosis is basically a group of organized shamans, however, the goal of shamanism has always been healing, which is not what we do, though we do use identical techniques, tools, and traditions to shamanic practices from across the globe, we are not healers.

I honestly think the church of entheogenic gnosis is the most open spiritual organization in existence next to shamanism itself, though a 200mg dose DMT initiation is required of all members at joining, as is daily marijuana use, dedication to non-violence except in self-defense, regular entheogenic exploration, meditation, participation in group entheogenic events, and a meat free diet.

becomming a church legally is a little more complicated than we previously anticipated (though still fairly simple),still, we expect to be a legally reconized church by the end of 2016.

-eg

This is bunkum

200mg via any ROA is ridiculously high for people such as myself who are extremely sensitive to the effects of tryptamines. While physically safe, even an experienced explorer such as myself would be taking their chances with winding up in the ER with such a silly practice. To make this a tenet of a religion is well...

Dum da Dum Dum...

Requiring excessive dosing, requiring cannabis use, dictating diet. I thought this was supposed to be an alternative to dogmatic traditions... You will need to seriously overhaul the tenets of your faith if you want my support.

As should go without saying, the following is entirely my opinion and should be understood as such


If that's what you're looking for...good for you, I guess? My drug use is mine and I don't need it to be accepted as/masked as "legitimate religious sacrament".

My drug use is legitimate because I'm an autonomous human being, capable of making my own informed decisions.

My legitimacy and power are derived from my very being, not from some constructed institution designed to dress it up into something that makes other people more comfortable with it. The very premise of this endeavor is a prohibitionist mindset--that our drug use is illegitimate so lets dress it up to make it more respectable.

Just because an organization plays by the laws of the state does not make it "legitimate" in any context other than the laws of the state. This notion of utilizing "legitimate organizations" to create a haven for users of "legitimate religious sacraments" is little more than deciding to play a game in which you are perpetually looking to make yourself acceptable to others. Count me out.




Unfortunately, I assume this is not satire?

Is most open spiritual like being the most enlightened or most humble?

Was a 200mg initiation dose of DMT decided on because you all felt it was the dose most likely to leave people feeling vulnerable/traumatized enough to need a church?

Are the rest of the somewhat absurd tenets you propose an attempt to mimic the Neo-American Church?

I agree with dreamer and snozz ^

entheogenic-gnosis,

For the love of god, please do not start a church.