Hello,

I was wondering if anyone knows of any cases or has an opinion on how dangerous it is to grow chacruna and san pedro. I know in some states san pedro is grown openly but it is also possible for you to get in trouble for growing both these plants since they have a scheduled chemical in them does anyone know of anyone who has got in trouble for this or how likely it is to get in trouble for this?

thanks

I grow bredgesii cacti out in the open where I am, and nothing has ever been said about it. I have it sitting right in the front yard, as that is where it gets the best light.

I feel most people just see a cactus, they have no idea what it is or what it's for. If they do know, they probably are just jealous they don't have one too.

I wouldn't worry about it. Most people don't know what these plants even are or what they can do. And since it is legal to grow them, the cops can't really do anything about it unless they somehow know your harvesting the plant for consumption. So whenever you go to harvest anything, just bring it inside where it can't be seen.

Even botanists can have trouble IDing chacruna if they're not familiar with the plant. The same goes for the vast majority of entheobotanicals. I have my trich collection just outside my front door, and cops have walked right by them on the rare occasion when I had to call them. Even these days very few people know what these plants are so I don't worry about it myself. I just keep quiet about it and only let a very select few people know about my hobby. Those who are into it themselves understand, those who aren't just think I'm eccentric.

I was thinking about the off chance that someone did figure it out. They could potentially hit you with a manufacturing charge for 2 scheduled 1 substances no? I mean that is on a very very off chance but is it worth risking 20 years in jail for when you can go to peru and get it for very cheap (if you cook it yourself) I weighed the options in my head and I just wasnt sure if it was worth it. I mean possibly the legal climate could change in a few years and they do start enforcing this (ayahuasca has seen a high rise in popularity and keeps climbing) you never know. It just sucks having that in the back of your head.

If it bothers you at all, don't do it.

That being said, I doubt growing your own would ever be a problem. Especially if you're a plant-person and just have them mixed in with other plants.

With regards to the manufacturing charge: remember that ignorance is bliss. While the alkaloids are scheduled, the plants are not. As pinkoyd has mentioned, the plants look strikingly similar to commonplace houseplants. Police are not botanists and have bigger fish to fry than small time psychonauts. It would be too costly and stupid and unconstitutional for them to scour each and every yard looking for plants which don't look like cannabis (the cash crop of LEOs). Also, at least in the USA, if a plant is not scheduled but contains scheduled chemicals, one can only be charged for manufacturing if there is proof beyond a reasonable doubt that you were preparing/isolating/extracting compounds from them (which, quite frankly, would be damn hard for LEOs to prove in the case of small timers like most of us are-if you sell this risk is greatly increased but they wouldn't want to mess with personal users unless you were doing something as stupid as extracting mescaline right in front of the police station or at a veterans day parade.) As long as you are not openly selling/manufacturing substances derived from these plants, you should have little to nothing to fear from the po-po.

However....

Just because the police don't know what's up doesn't mean that other sniveling psychonauts don't. I used to grow a line of trichs right in front of my place. THey looked fantasmic and beautiful and I loved them to death. They were growing great and everything looked sunny and bright before me...

Then everything changed when I got cactus jacked....

I awoke this fine sunday morning to an atrocious sight: My cacti were uprooted and gone from their pots. In the dead of night (or early morning) a band of hooligans with a taste for special sacred succulents saw my psychoactve cacti in front of my place and, acting without morals or respect for the spirit of san pedro herself, stole all of my cacti straight out of their pots. I cried and cried and still am crying over the loss of my cacti collection. TBM, TPM, juul's long spined peruvianus and some bridgesiis were among the poor souls lost to the heartless swine who stole my cacti. I sincerely hope that the spirit of these succulents gives them exactly what these putrid punks deserve for such a heinous crime. I would report it to the po-po, but then again the cacti are semi-legal and there would only be one really good reason why they would steal these cacti and not other plants (a reason which could get some manufacturing charges slapped on my record...)

While I still grieve over the loss of my flock of cacti and shudder over how I plan to restart my collection, I must beg you to take care regarding where you grow these special succulents. Even though they are uncommon and unlikely to attract the attention of LEOs, they are well known among psychedelic connoisseurs both young and old, mature and IMMATURE, moral and IMMORAL. Some of those in the know are not moral/experienced enough with the laws of karma to know what such a heinous crime can bring about and thus are wont to steal these precious plants from us who take the time to grow and cultivate relationships with them. I would highly advise that you take care as to where you grow them around your place and to take precautions against would-be thieves. Do not keep them in plain view/grasp of would-be cactus jackers and take care to keep them in private places (i.e. backyards and the such.) Remember that, while the police may not be able to prosecute you for growing them in plain view, thieves are always willing to teach the less learned among us a cruel course in crime prevention. Do not let yourself become an unfortunate victim of Grand Theft Psychedelia. Do not let your collection end up in the throes of thieves. Do not let the end result of years of careful cultivation end up in the collection of criminals. Do not end up like me.

Wishing you well warnings on your adventures,
-God

If someone capable of identifying Chacruna or San Pedro is after you. . . I don't know what you'd have to do to screw up that badly, but I'd be impressed. Hell, the director of the DEA himself thinks people are smoking "marijuana leaves," I'm pretty sure the only plants he can identify are between a patty and two buns.

Unless you are already doing other high-profile things, selling mass quantities of x, y, or z substance, I really think you have exactly zilch to worry about. I'm a worrier by nature, so I have certain rules I abide by that allow me peace of mind. I don't smoke or grow cannabis, I don't sell illegal substances, and I don't associate with idiots. That works for me.

Yea Im starting to think I was just over worrying, but at the same time I don't think I could have peace of mind bc of how worried I am. Everytime I would do a san pedro ceremony worry would come to my mind I don't sell anything don't hang around idiots and don't do anything high profile. But in my mind there is always the possibility and the worry and stress almost seemed like it made it not worth it so either I learn control my worries better or destroy my garden.... sadly I destroyed the garden... I wish I made this thread before I did that though.

Sorry to say it dude, but yeah...wrong choice. You have foreclosed the option of sustainable psychedelic self-sufficiency. Now if you want to have the experience you have to procure it from someone else, exposing yourself to...well, I'll let you worry on that for a bit...

yea my idea is to just do the plants that are legal in peru, when im in peru. and stick to the legal plants in the usa when in the usa (amanitas, nutmeg, marijuana in certain states as well as other ones). I mean I've been to towns here in peru where there are multiple lifetimes supply of san pedro for free and in the jungle as long as you know how to identify the plants you will have no problem finding enough

Sally is legal in certain states, along with a whole heap of DMT source plants (heap=all of them) and some kickass cacti. Don't shut yourself off to the idea of sustainable ethnobotanical cultivation! It is a great hobby to embark upon in this Land of milk and fly honeys we call home!

Also, cannabis is illegal EVERYWHERE in the USA (according to uncle sam's Ron Jeremy-esque penal code), states can't protect you against the impending DEA-FBI-CIA raid on that small time drug factory of yours! Also, according to the UN, those plants/chemicals are technically illegal everywhere, its just that there's no organization willing to waste the time enforcing worldwide drug policies unless the perps are making some major money (think: escobar, Noriega taliban, Moroccans, and the like).

Also, i'm not sure if amanitas or nutmeg are legal for recreational psychoactive use in the US of A...

No matter where you go, no matter what the local law says, there is always a risk that a superseding, more spread out organization may snap the freedom straight out of your lifetime at the drop of a hat. Don't spend your life cowered up in a corner paranoid that at any singular second men with guns and handcuffs wearing monochromatic navy blue uniforms will surround you in the blink of an eye and haul you off to serve a life sentence in the middle of mordor at any moment. Paranoia sucks-its healthy in small amounts but is deadly in higher doses. As long as you aren't growing weed (or any other easily identifiable or explicitly scheduled plant) you have nothing to fear so as long as you don't confess to extracting/consuming its active constituents or do so in broad daylight before the beady eyes of those putrid pigs. FOr all the pigs know, they're just plants like any other; that's all they need to hear to leave you uncharged and unharmed. Don't live in the shadow of the valley of deathly fear. Let fear die with the shadows at sunrise and revel in the beauty of the freedom granted upon all men by the rays of the eternal sunshine which radiates within and about each and every man, wombman and child who waltzes upon this good Earth of ours.

Your real enemies (other than the ones in your head) are thieves. Make sure to insulate your precious plants against these hankering hooligans. These little bastards, not the LEOs who run the show, are the greatest threat to all psychoactive gardeners across this land of ours. As long as your plants are insulated against both of these parasitic powers, there is nothing left to fear except the feeling of fear itself.

I was under the impression that all plants that contain dmt are technically illegal and so could be the cactus it is considered a container of an illegal substance it is just like how psilocybin cubensis mushrooms aren't technically mentioned in the law but they are considered containers and are 100% illegal. And i really am not too concerned about thieves, if they are able to identify plants for what they are the worst they can do is steal them, but if the law was able to identify the plants for what they are then the consequences are much worse. And I know the law doesnt specifically mention the plants but I feel like if they figured out what the plants were and had at least the smallest suspicion that I was growing them for any other purpose other than ornamental use, then their action would be to arrest me first and ask questions later. Then it would go to trial which might take 6 months to a year and best case scenario Im out on bail and have to wait for the trial worst case scenario Im stuck in prison awaiting trial. So even if these plants are in a "grey" area Im just not sure it is the wisest decision to have them growing in your own backyard. And there is an entire thread on here about the illegality of ALL dmt containing plants idk if you read it.

And as far as amanitas go they are 100% legal it doesnt matter what you are using them for there is no law against consuming them or possesing them you just can't sell then with the intended use for consumption. But if you were to admit that you consumed amanitas or nutmeg with the intention of altering your consciousness there is nothing they could do about it, it is as legal as cotton socks.

My thinking is why put yourself at unnecessary risk you know what Im saying? When I could just as easily hop on a flight to peru be there the next day go to a town I know of where san pedro grows abundantly and not have to worry one single bit about any organization what so ever bothering me I can consume it with complete peace of mind, and then the next week I go to the amazon and drink ayahuasca and not have a single worry in the back of my mind about getting in trouble. And also there are plenty of plants that grow naturally in the USA that are psychoactive and 100% legal I could be using all different types of plants from kanna to mugwort and not have a single worry, so why not just stick to doing it in places where it is accepted, legal, and has a community of people willing to help you through the experience as opposed to doing it in hiding, having people react negatively towards it, and also worried about getting in trouble. to me that doesnt sound like a good setting for a psychedelic experience?

The entire earth is our own garden that has already grown for us and is abundant as ever all we have to do is go to the right places, instead of putting our freedom at risk by growing these plants. And the plants are protected in alot of countries in south america from the UN under the indigenous rights acts so again I wont have any worries.

But I appreciate your responses and this is really helping me with processing the decision I made.

Like wap said, if you're uncomfortable growing, certainly don't.

My understanding of the CSA is the same as yours, but the precedent in court is not the same for the ethnobotanicals you asked about as it is for mushrooms. I know an attorney who said he has looked and failed to find a single case around tricocereus. They sell pachanoi and bridgesii in Lowes and Home Depot in warm parts of the country, after all.

Plus, growing is not a get high quick plan. If you've ever done it, you know that's laughable.

But... these plants saved me. I was in a dark place when I found the Nexus and plants, having pulled myself out of 15 years of cocaine and opiate addiction a few years earlier but being in a hole of self loathing, which consensus reality reflected back to me. Entheogens helped my make peace with every bit of my past, find self love, and love and gratitude out in the world. My heart is open and overflowing.

I see growing as a part of my spiritual path and an offering to the plant Allies in gratitude. If I never intended to partake again, I'd grow. And I'd share seeds and cuttings. It's the least I can do, and some stands are worth taking.

You are lucky that whenever you want to work with San Pedro you can just fly on down to Peru.

Growing cacti in the back yard is about all that works on my budget...