I'm doing a bit of research into harmalas at the moment - I may or may not be able to produce something useful from it at the end

There's one thing that I'm hoping people can help me with. In my experiments vaping incremental doses of harmalas (different kinds) I can see that harmalas have their own specific onset time and duration. These are much slower than vaped DMT and last much longer. I'm hoping I can produce a table of these when I've finished btw.

Now with changa, the harmala constituent - whether you're using b. caapi or extracted harmalas - is there for two reasons:
1. as a MAOI it stops the DMT being metabolised so quickly thus prolonging the effect of the DMT and potentially giving you a bit more "manoeverability" with processing what happens
2. it adds its own particular flavour to the experience which many people claim makes it closer to a shortened ayahuasca experience

However I'm wondering how this actually works with changa considering the different onset times of these two ingredients. My own experience of smoalking pure DMT is that 30 seconds in I'm being projected through fractal patterns on my way to hyperspace and 5 minutes later I'm already on my way down. OK, so with the harmala added maybe this isn't 5 minutes, maybe it's 10 or 15 minutes later. But this time span misses out on a lot of what the harmalas have to offer.

I'm just wondering whether it isn't more logical to divide the changa up into part A and part B. So basically smoalk the harmala enriched leaf first, wait maybe 20 minutes, smoalk the DMT enriched leaf. I know a lot of people do use some variation on this but doesn't this make the all-in-one concept of changa a bit incongruous?

Hi there,

Interesting thoughts.

Probably the onset of smoked harmalas is quicker then when taken orally. If you drink it you should probably wait around 20-30 minutes before vaping the spice.

If smoked im guessing its active as quick as the dmt is, but im sure there are people here who can speak from experience of Someone Who Isnt Them.

You should expect to hear a variety of responses. For oral, some are firm proponents of taking it all at once, while others would rather wait. I've smoked changa, and I've vaped extracted harmalas followed by vaping DMT. So long as you have enough DMT and harmalas, it shouldn't make too much of a difference. What I can tell you from my personal experience is that regardless if it is changa, vaping DMT after harmalas, vaping DMT on aya/pharma, that a similarity that persists across these situations with the presence of harmalas is that the onset seems to be (slightly) delayed regardless. For me, visuals start forming rapidly so early as 5 seconds within inhalation (while it's still in my lungs, holograms may be forming). When harmalas are present, this 5 seconds becomes something closer to 15-20 seconds. I know it seems strange, but I'd rather it start practically instantly. Those seconds in waiting can create undue anticipation. Where some might have just the right amount of DMT in their blood for the perfect experience, the delayed onset can create confusion, and sometimes cause people to take that extra hit that they maybe shouldn't have taken. I can of course see how the same kind of misjudgment could work out in someone's favor had they not taken enough DMT to begin with.

Yeah, I know just what you mean about the delay being a bit disconcerting. I used to sip rue tea for 2 or 3 hours beforehand and got the same effect. One of the beauties of the spice is that you light the blue touch paper and instant take off guaranteed!

I think that also the inconsistent nature of psychedelics come into play.

Some time when I smoke changa the effects are extremely slow coming, so slow that you might think its not gonna work today. Other times it can hit me fast and furious.

I prefer the fast onset because then you know its all systems go and the experience is going to be something special.

Saying that though, vaped DMT is a bit to hard hitting or at least the first hit is.

I think it's all about personal preference, and this is why people have different "sweet spots" in the amount of harmalas they choose to add to their changa blends.

I don't think you need to separate the two, you can just add more harmalas to your mix until you find what your preferred mix is.

I separate mine for pragmatic reasons, so I don't burn my dmt. I can't get all the harmalas in me before my dmt is burned, not nicely vaporized.