Hey everybody!

Does anybody have experience dealing with chronic pain? What have you found to alleviate the symptoms?

I met this lovely person that unfortunately suffers from chronic neck and back pain and I'd love to be able to help. The doctor she went to said its related to her "Right Idiopathic Thoracic Scoliosis", but he didn't do much appart from prescribing her some opioids and other stuff (naproxen, pregabalin etc) which didnt work at all for her, so she stopped using them. Unfortunately the quality of treatment received from certain doctors are far from ideal and it's not always easy to find the good ones.

Cannabis seems to only make her notice or think more about the pain. What does seem to help for her is yoga, swimming and massage, so she tries to do those as much as possible, but she was wondering if there were more things she could do? Anybody try some kind of plant extract that works well, or some other ideas in general?

sorry to hear about your friend. but have you (or anyone on the nexus) heard of rick simpson oil?

its a specfic method of making very high, pure cannbais oil. ive been following the story since 2003, read thousands of testaominals and made some for my family member... applied topically for arthrtis and worked well. good luck best wishes

I am a licensed massage therapist, so I spent a lot of time studying and treating chronic pain. What I learned is that 90% or more of chronic pain is actually caused by emotions - usually repressed emotions (I made up the 90% but that is about what it seems to me). With chronic pain most people either repress it further with pain pills (usually makes the chronic pain grow over time and get worse) or they get massage and chiropractic work (sometimes helps, but usually help is temporary unless emotions are addressed).

Sometimes chronic pain is caused by injury, but often injuries should heal themselves - when they dont heal themselves over time then usually the reason is because those repressed emotions are choosing the weak spot in your body to express themselves.

My wife had chronic back pain for 3 years - so bad she sometimes couldnt leave the house. She was healthy and in shape and young - no reason for her to have chronic pain like that, though of course she thought it was caused by work (it wasnt). I gave her twice weekly massages, she saw a chiropractor regularly, and for a while she saw a Bowen Work specialist and she practiced yoga the entire time. All these therapies gave her minor temporary relief but the pain always was there.

First time we went to Peru we worked a good bit with San Pedro and with Ayahuasca. Both plants showed her the cause of her chronic pain was repressed emotions. That was 3 years ago and she hasnt had chronic back pain since. Same work, same level of stress in life, but now she doesnt repress her emotions - she works through them. Worked better for her back pain then any other therapy.

I've seen the same thing work with many other people now too.

Here is a breif overview of what I am talking about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tension_myositis_syndrome
(The doctor who created this category of dysfunction called TMS has done some interesting work - well worth looking into!)

endlessness,

I am so sorry to hear about your lady friend's situation. I found travsha's reply to be interesting and well worth reading.

My husband and I both suffer from chronic pain - it has to do with osteo-arthritis and bone spurs (osteophytes). There is no treatment other than death. The chronic pain has changed my personality for the worse and this makes me sad and frustrated as the pain never goes away and just gets worse over time. LOL if it's like this what will it be like in 10 or 20 years. .

Clearly keeping the muscles around the bad joint sites fairly fit helps us. Also knowing and respecting our limits. If it hurts horribly just stop and figure something else out. Giving each other massages is always nice too.

I'm so sorry cannabis doesn't help her. It certainly helps Nemo Amicus and I to minimize our use of opiates and other habit forming prescription drugs.

Absolutely having a rough day or bad news doesn't help us. But, strangely enough having as positive attitude as possible seems to help us kind of just shrug it off. Sure it hurts but I'm used to it - that kind of thing.

Is she on an SSRI? Can she maybe try caapi aya brew? Like maybe once or twice a week? Just to help her generally feel a bit better about everything.

I do hope she finds some help/relief.

Travsha:

Wow. This is a very eye opening post for me. I have had terrible lower back pain for the last 5 years or so; normally only ever bothers me at work (I work mostly in bars, kitchens, restaurants etc - the long hours on the feet kill my back, especially if standing stationary). I hate working these mundane, soul destroying jobs.

I got fed up with the pain and and went to the doctor and had an x-ray. I had a fractured pars interarticularis (segment of bone that connects the facet joints at the back of the spine), spondylolisthesis (forward displacement of my L5 vertebra) and some arthritis. They said there's not much that can really be done - "just manage it - physiotherapy couldn't do any harm". I did a few sessions but it was basically a waste of money.

Do I repress my emotions? I have no idea, I certainly don't feel like I repress my emotions - I am super open to myself about how I feel, and I work through my issues with vigilance and face every demon.

But to be honest, I have never truly been open to the idea that my lower back pain could be psychosomatic, until I read your post.

And, I'm off to Peru later this year... looks like I might have some work to do.

Goodluck with your friend, Endlessness

Lichen - not sure if this applies to you, but working at a job you dislike causes most people to repress emotions they feel while at work - especially in the service industry where you are expected to have a ready smile. So if the work puts a small strain on your back but at the same time your emotions/thoughts are related to hating your job - maybe those emotions could make a small back ache much worse.

That may not apply in your specific situation, but that is one example of how these things can start sometime.

Look at anyone's posture and they will have displacement of multiple vertebrae, but not everyone has chronic pain from that. I personally dont think minor displacements should cause pain as everyone has them and they are natural - your body should be able to handle minor posture deviations without chronic pain. Arthritis too can be made worse with stress (stress increases inflammation). A lot of the TMS symptoms and issues are related to inflammation and stress. Fracture could certainly cause some pain and dysfunction, but eventually those should heal.... I think TMS really makes normal injuries that should heal over time turn into chronic injuries that linger longer then they should though.

Best way to find out if your pain might be related to TMS is to read up about it and see if it seems to describe your symptoms or just to ask plants about it in ceremony. Or both ways combined. My wife after being a couple ceremonies into her healing process discovered a book by Dr. Sarno and so she kinda had both at the same time - reading the info about it and working with the plants. Since Dr. Sarnos method of treatment is education and sometimes psychotherapy the plants can really help you go deep with ideas from his books.

Endlessness. two things she might try are 1) inversion therapy, basically hanging upside down to allow the spine to decompress for short periods of time, usually once or twice daily, and 2) CBD extract oil. CBD is found in all Cannabis products to one degree or another and it seems to be the thing in Cannabis that helps to relieve pain and also relax the muscles. CBD extracted oils of high potency are now being sold online. Because CBD is not psychoactive (whereas THC is psychoactive) CBD oils are legal in all 50 states and easily purchased online. Cannadiol is one of the brands I have used for my L5 back pain and it does work for me to both decrease felt pain and also relax the muscles so that I have greater mobility and less pain.

I like what travsha has to say a lot and although I do not feel like I am repressing my own emotions it is certainly possible that I am. Looks like a Peru trip might be in my future as well and some work with aya and cactus, so I will ask and pay attention to see if there is any information there for me to help heal better that what I am already doing. Blessings to you and her and please share with us what works and what does not.

Thank-you for this enlightening post T, I damaged my sciatic nerve 12 months ago. Had the numb feet and calf muscles and tingles etc. Doc prescribed steroid anti-inflammatory meds, I refused opiates. Had chronic symptoms for a while, the meds worked a little bit. Then I started stretching (undisciplined) with weed on an empty stomach, and found all this unobserved emotional calcification attached to the centres of pain. Repeated this fortnightly ever since and now the symptoms don't bother me anymore. My posture has improved, my diaphragm is stronger. I do get nerve misfire/miswire cramps in my feet and toes every now and then, it feels like the muscles that control them are free-agents doing whatever they want. But time and practice should clear that up hopefully.

We deal with chronic pain issues nearly every day at our herbal pharmacy & acupuncture clinic.

I'd suggest having your friend find a good acupuncturist. Have them ask around, don't just go by advertising (that's the worst way to find any service or product as you probably know). Find someone who's opinion you trust that has been to an acupuncturist.

Acupuncturists are like any other profession in that there are good ones & there are incompetent ones & it makes a world of difference. Better yet, if your friend can find an acupuncturist that is skilled in & practices cupping. Cupping can make huge differences with back pain. I've been there & I know.

The things I've seen a skilled acupuncturist do with needles as thin or thinner than your hair are truly amazing.

Just my two cents. If you have any questions regarding Traditional Chinese Medicine or Acupuncture or cupping, drop me a PM. I will get back to you as soon as I can!

In Dr. Sarnos TMS research he found many people could end sciatica pain with just education about TMS and an effort to work through their emotions. A lot of the nervy type chronic pain issues seem to be related to TMS because inflammation impinges the nerve. Of course sometimes there is another reason for the impingement, or usually multiple factors, but TMS makes the issue worse and can create a chronic issue from an acute one. Body and mind are so inter-related!

But all sorts of things can help you work through emotions better: internal inquiry into yourself, meditation, plant medicines or entheogens, massage, yoga, acupuncture, time in nature ect.... Emotional release during body work or other treatment can be super powerful in not only reducing stress responses but also reducing pain. Learning how to listen to your body is a much neglected skill for many people.

"Thank-you for this enlightening post T, I damaged my sciatic nerve 12 months ago"

Amanita Muscaria extract applied topically may be of use to you.

Gabapentin might work. If pregabalin was ineffective, it might also fail (they're similar), but I have read anecdotal reports of being being amazed at it's analgesic potential.

Some kind of kappa-opioid receptor agonist might be useful - they are analgesic without being rewarding, you can look up what's available in your country. Tianeptine might also be helpful.

For non-pharma based options:

Meditation has been shown in many studies to increase pain tolerance (I'll try to dig some studies up tomorrow if I have the time).

Blessings
~ND

Thank you very much for all your answers!!

I told her to get in the nexus to ask more questions herself

werd, any idea on dosages with those substances/extracts you mentioned?

I have had chronic lower back pain for years. I've had spinal fusion and now I'm suffering from adjacent disc disease, so maybe another fusion is required .

I have no faith in doctors or surgeons due to my own experiences . To be honest I'd rather see a voodoo doctor.

Painkillers don't actually kill pain they just dope you up so you don't care about the pain.

I've had loads of different acupuncture treatments over the years and some types help but from what I've experienced its more of a short term aid. Traditional Chinese acupuncture hasn't really worked for me in any way.

Physiotherapy made me a lot worse.

Heat or Ice treatments are excellent for numbing the area and alleviating the pain.
I live with a hot water bottle on my lower back.


I'm not bothered by pain in some respects and I never let it get me down.

Just recently my friend sprained her knee and it wasnt healing right.... She started drinking small amounts of amanita tea every day and her knee fixed up super quick - reduced the swelling and your bodies guarding of the knee which allowed healing.

I'm really interested to see how effective amanitas can be for things like this - I have been getting really into amanitas lately and think they have a lot more power for healing then most people know....

Hello Endless

Are your lady friend's legs of both equal lengths ? (-- if not she may require a special shoe sole or inlay on the shorter legs shoe). There are also ppl (healers) that claim they can correct unequal leg syndrome (?) by doing something to the hip (magic?).

Then... what else we heard, was, that for a lot of such problems free climbing also works wonders.

And then there is harmaline (lowers the pain threshold for up to two weeks)

We also have scoliosis, and the string of muscles bordering our spine to the right is much stronger than the ones to the left, due to our right leg being a half inch shorter than the left leg. It caused many troubles, including four ruptured intervertebral discs and general imbalance. It should have been treated when we was a child, but it wasn't detected back then...

We are free of pain now. We avoid sitting long time on normal chairs or deep sofas like the plague. Here at the PC we sit on a wedge pillow...etc

I deal with chronic neck/back pain as well as neuropathy. I was on opiates for years as well as neurontin and LyrRica.The opiates worked for a time but tolerance developed and it will damage yourvgastointestinal system. The Lyrica and neurontin did nothing for my neuropathy. Yoga does help. Then I tried cannabis. Indica strains only worked. I made a tincture with cannabis and pure grain alcohol. It works great. I take it sublingually. It works so much better than smoking it. I think natural anti inflammatories in the cannabis build up over time and help even more.

Mind if i ask what your neuropathy is from? An injury or immune disease? I have an autoimmune disease called chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy which affects my sensory nerves. It's quite a pain in the ass (literally) though I've gotten like 80% remission from eating an "AIP" diet.

my dangerous lifestyle has left me wrecked.
im covered in scars , burns, and loaded with pins/ metals / artificial joints.
i absolutely qualify for full disability, ( but refuse to apply)

my secret, self hypnosis and massive pot.
^that......... and i dont have time for pain.

opiates are out of the question,
as without pain as a restraint, im sorta documented dangerous.

^ all this, and age, is why i quit modeling in 2003.
in the meantime,
im gonna bounce at the club till they kick my blonde ass for good.
pain or not.

I understand the pot part. But self hypnosis...I read books about this stuff, was curious about it, but never actually jumped on it. Mind elaborating on your method?

I bet you are fun at parties.