Raising a dead thread for just a minute!

My girlfriend and I are planning on some pharma either today or tomorrow if she still feels up to it! We were thinking:

(each)
200mg freebase harmalas
+
50-75mg freebase DMT

Mixing in orange juice and drinking them down...


We've never had pharma before (Had Aya before though) so is it better to take them together or separately? Or does it matter? I'll probably try it both ways over the course of the next couple weeks to see what works better for us.

Any advice is appreciated!

I'm surprised at the results of this thread, although it is quite old. If people are taking a psychedelic dose of harmalas they probably won't need much more than 50mg DMT

I thought >100mg seemed a bit high but I can't say since this a untested method for me. I think we will stick with 50mg DMT or less and see how that plays out. No need to go overboard as we are just testing the waters with this ROA.

I would think you would need more harmalas unless you guys are pretty light. Especially if you are going to take so little light. Personally I need 250 worth of harmalas and 100 dmt just to get started. I weigh about 240 lbs. This is a very manageable dose for me with only mild CEVs and a hell of a body buzz. I think if I went for 300mgs harmalas I could lower my dmt dosage. I take them at the same time although next time I am going to have a glass with more harmalas and DMT for the hour and a half mark when I realize I can handle more.

Hardware (un)sensitivity exist but there is also sensitivity for the realms that is as much important than dose at least. Once I needed the double for what I do now. It's also possible to have a shift in aim-what-I-want/need-to-experience.

While putting it on the scale, there on that moment it talks to me how much/little.
I do have an idea before but it's the scale-moment having veto. It's almost like a little dialogue with the scale

What are your dosage ranges like now, jees?

We are both pretty light I suppose. I'm about 155-160lbs and she is 115-120lbs. I'd rather up the harmalas rather than the light. Looking for an introspective experience...nothing too overwhelming. Having another dose ready is something I like to do with Aya so it is probably a good idea to have one ready for pharma too, just in case we aren't getting to where we want to be!

Looks like we will be doing this later tonight. If all goes well, I will write up a report!



Edit: Not to mention we could always puff on a little changa too!

Alright so we are going for it! Trying 200mg freebase harmalas dissolved in oj. Drink. Waiting 10-15 minutes and then dissolving 40mg freebase DMT in oj and drinking. Will report results either later tonight or tomorrow. Whichever feels most plausible!!!

Between 25 and 80, according to circumstances and the scale-dialogue.

The experience depth does not really follow dose. Well yes partly it does when it comes to horsepower, but that power is power only, there is something else too, something factor that is not guaranteed by loudness and it can happen at any dose >25 . It's hard to grab, I was once taken by just 10 grams of vine only, it wasn't very long, maybe 15 minutes but enough to illustrate something beyond dose. So I guess it has to do with tuning, frequencies, conditions (personal & external), resonance is perhaps the best word because when resonance occur the trigger can be a butterfly wing's action to provoke a storm.

I've been intrigued to find out on conditioning the "resonance" parameters but it feels like effort in vain and just enjoy when it happens. I can imagine people living in nature and/or dedicated their life to meditation and such having a wider bridge connection at disposal and less need of plant-aid-trigger to come "there".

I guess I could still do that former sweet spot of 140 that has yet been replaced by 70. But why if I can have plenty work at 70? It is true they're not same experiences but the threshold (where enough quality work can be displaced) has been lowered. Perhaps I'll ramp up dosages again when called for, maybe it's all just stages floating about.

And as always YMMV.

For your comments on "resonance" I can concur that I find that this vastly effects the depth of the experience. I have noticed this to a degree on mushrooms and LSD as well as it seems like resistance to the effects of these molecules results in "dissonance" that is not always unpleasurable but also reminds me that I am not relaxing as much as I could and letting myself be immersed in the experience. It follows that I might not be letting myself enjoy the full benefit of the experience or the power of the dosage. I wonder how this relates to the ceremonies held by the Santo Daime church and other modes of experience where singing and dancing are encouraged. To me this would detract from an experience since it seems like it would be like interupting the message. When I don't want to listen to Mama Aya I just sit up in a lit room and "bear" the experience rather than lay down and let it overtake me. It works quite well if I find I've overshot my goal.

Results:

Okay, so last night's endeavor turned out to be a fairly mild journey but by no means was it disappointing! It was very dreamy with a feeling like something was about to come on strong for about 3-4 hours or so. Time dilation was very noticeable, extremely pleasurable body load and mild to moderate CEV's and very light OEV's.

I did not prepare that second dose like I thought I would because, as Jees put it, I had that internal dialogue with the scale and was like, "Nah, I won't need that second dose, don't be silly...Well, maybe I will...eh, nevermind..."



That kind of dialogue...But all is well, we smoked some good bud on top of it and that really helped kick in the effects. Decided not to smoke any changa either (My Girlfriend fell asleep around the 6-7 hour mark). It really just boils down to her and I playing with dosages and finding that sweet spot! I think/know my harmalas could be purified further (ran out of salt during initial extraction... ) too but at this point it is neither here nor there. That was the last of my harmalas anyway so I'll have to extract some more! Can't wait!

Overall:

Okidoki

Taking all the odd ones out of the equation then for me the "works" bottom starting level is like 60
25 to 35 therapeutic session
40 - 50 therapeutic with a wink toward intensity.

Seems yours correspond with that chart.

As UC said, the harmalas play such a big role.

Yes, indeed. I think next time we will go with 250mg harmalas and 50-60mg DMT and see where that takes us! Also, one other factor is that we ate a light lunch of rice and chicken about 10 hours prior to dosing. So this may have had an effect on the intensity of the experience as well. Next time we will go with a 24 hour fast and see if that makes a difference.

But one variable at a time!!!

Good plan.

As much as I would love to do 250 H's , I still stick to 200 because from there my stomach starts to interfere. And 200 gives me really all I need.(70 kg or 154 lbs)

The thing at 200+ for me is the lethargic phase on the come up starts to drag much attention, I don't mind a little lethargic phase but please not too overly occupying.
It's not chicken-fear, but when my stomach gets stressed a notch too much then 2 things happen:

- it starts to hostage the content and refuses (to degree) to flush down to the bowels. All this time the lethargic feeling persists and the session doesn't evolve further as it should. The initial intensity starts to lessen and I start to get a feeling of an abort, while darn well knowing it's all in there waiting, waiting...

- this can take up to 3 hours and then I usually decide to un-burden the stomach with a purge. That does the trick to relieve the stomach pretty well but I expelled goodies for sure. With the contractions some goodies got squeezed into the bowels too, finely things get started from there. I do not consider this kind of purge a true healing purge but more a "technical" one.

These things also happen with tannin rich brews like aya, the tannins doing same trick on the stomach. But there It's part of the game, inevitable. With extracts/pharma it doesn't have to be so and 200 H's gets me where I want without stressing stomach necessarily and I never feel the need to redose on a good 200 session.
Don't get me wrong, I love a healing purge, and it happens also on pharma too due intensity related triggers far down into the session, that I call real healing purge, not a "technical" one.

As always YMMV

With 200mg harmalas I felt no nausea. My GF reported mild nausea on the same dose. Nausea is definitely something I can go without but I do respect the power and spiritual aspects of "the purge" I'd just rather avoid it if I can...

I think we still may go with 250 and if the nausea is too intense or distracts from the experience too much, we can always go back to 200 and play with the DMT dosage instead.

This past experience felt like it was about to really go somewhere but it never fully opened up...I had that sort of antsy anticipation as if everything was just behind this mental "veil" ... Comparable to wading in a kiddie pool while my last breakthrough (smoalked DMT) was like cannon balling from a helicopter into Marianas Trench. They were/are worlds apart essentially, but both beneficial in their own right. Both were of equal importance to me.

It is fun to experiment and I can't wait to plan the next voyage!

Nice to see your enthusiasm.
But still you made such a big mistake dude:


What did you do with that kilo all that time, made a pillow of it?

Good to see this thread up an running. I'm going on my first pharma trip this weekend-- I will have the full Saturday to adventure and all Sunday to integrate. I'm about 80kg and my friend is 65kg.

Thinking we'll go with 50mg each spice, but I'm on the fence about the harmalas. I have a gram of rue extract, but also have the time to extract full spectrum from vine. Would be happy to get some feedback on the best option for the first time out.

I will mix with oj before taking. For the rue extract I'm thinking 200mg for me and 175mg for my friend. If caapi extract 250mg for me and 200mg for him. I'll have some freebase spice available for a boost in case the experience feels too light.

Caapi extract, my personal very minimum is 500 mg, last time was 600 mg and very okay. Serious difference with rue extract that is usually mansked in the process to narrow down on the actives. Wishing you success with the endeavors

Thanks Jees--

I'm a bit drawn to the caapi-- I will probably go with that assuming extraction goes well.

600mg is a stronger dosage than I'll dare for my first effort. I may bring it up to 350mg though.

Will report back with the results! (very excited)