Found that here-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmaline

Assuming they are talking about harmine/harmaline extracted from rue, i am curious as to what ratios in terms of mg/kg body weight work for nexians in activating oral pharma. With relative reference as to how far from threshold they were to get the affects.

Lets see if we can figure out a nexus contributed experiment into the validity of that claim on wikipedia. Get enough submissions and crunch some numbers.

So to start, if you don't mind, post a mg/kg ratio that works for you in activating oral dmt, the relative length of the experience, and a + to ++++ rating of how strong of a dose ABOVE what is needed to activate dmt is. Also what process you used to extract (fs/mankse, and method of ingestion and time taken to ingest).

For me-

130mg harmala hcl (rue manske) dissolved in water and drank immediately.
59kg
2.2mg/kg
+
4hrs

170mg harmala hcl (rue mankse) dissolved in water and drank immediately.
59kg
2.9mg/kg
++
4-6hrs

Ill add more as i have more time to conduct trials both lower and higher than the above 2.

Remember this is not about dmt other than what dose of harmalas activates a known amount of dmt from past pharma experiences. IE use an amount of dmt that you know will be enough to be noticable with sufficent mao-a inhibition.

I don't understand your plus to quad plus rating system.

The Shulgin Scale–

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shulgin_Rating_Scale

?

Gonna do a fat bump.

I wish more people would express dosages in this most scientific of ways.
It gives you more context.

But is mg/kg the most useful and 'scientific' of dosage measurements for ß-carbolines?
The alkaloids activity is not a function of body mass or total blood volume. The MAO inhibition occurs as the ß-carbolines wash over the lining of the stomach and small intestine, right? So weight should matter far less than is the case for other drugs.
I weigh 52 kg, by a simple shift in diet I could gain 100 kg without changing the surface area of my stomach and small intestine. I doubt I would need 3 times as much rue.

People dont measure athletes foot cream by mg/kg

Harmala alkaloids are kind of a weird issue because they s
are simultaneously both an maoi and a psychoactive substance all their own. I meant in general mg/kg statement of dose is a great way to express doses, especially in trip/experience reports.

A 1.5 works for me as a bare minimum.

A 2 is better, gives now more depth and duration, I consider this as a minimum for a good session, the harmalas are now clearly a component of the experience too without taxing the ingestion system.

A 2.8 to 3 is my usual, never re-dosed with this, harmalas are now a profound part of the experience. The taxing on the ingestion system becomes noticeable.

* * *

If there are just days between sessions, the 2 does great.
If it was a week or more in between, then 2.8 to 3 is the habit.

YMMV

(1) Moderate and Strong activating amounts of harmine (pg 250 of 639):"Pharmacotheon: Entheogenic drugs, their plant sources & history" by Jonathan Ott:


While harmine is ok by itself with leaf, caapi is even better since it contains not only harmine but thh. Back then Jonathan Ott did experiments with harmine only and not combinations of harmine and thh as found in caapi brews.

The Internationalization of Ayahuasca

https://books.google.com...nathan%20ott&f=false

The new entry in the above book around page 105 from (once again) the Legend Jonathan Ott is a good read as well.

I just got 2 grama of freebase Rue extract. Super fine tanish/grey powder.

I'm looking to ease into oral Harmala. Like, noticeable Harmala effects, not just mao inhibition.

Would you recommend 2mg/kg mixed into OJ or lime juice and hot water?

Looks fine, you could put it in a gel cap too. The FB form will dissolve harder than HCL form, but that's not a problem to swirl down some undissolved.

From Caymanchem:

I'm not familiar with the "additional effects" you describe with OJ. I did notice that gel caps can cause unreliable timing of the harmala digestion. For me a drink is more dependable. I get strongest and most reliable effects from a drink that has both dmt and harmalas dissolved together, similar to classic ayahuasca.

To dissolve freebase alkaloids with minimal added loading, you could put the weighed amounts of alkaloids into a glass, add a little bit of hot water and then add aa few drops of vinegar. Stir for a minute and if there is still a lot of undissolved matter, add a few more drops and stir again.

20 standard drops equals 1 milliliter;
1 ml vinegar of 5% acetic acid concentration equals 0.05 ml of acetic acid;
0.05 ml acetic acid weighs almost 0.05 grams or 50 milligrams;
1 mole of acetic acid weighs about 60 grams, 50 milligrams contains 0.83 millimole acetic acid;
1 mole of harmine weighs about 212 grams, 0.83 millimole has about 177 milligrams;

So that 20 drops of vinegar will salt and dissolve 177 milligrams of rue extract freebase, or 1 drop for every 8.8 milligrams of freebase.


Some say that more is even better.


Many of the least best entries contain almost no THH. Caapi vine and/or brew does not always contain spectacular amounts of THH.

Anyway, IMHO the THH issue is somewhat off-topic for the OP's question.

To respond to the original inquiry: From the reports that I have read here on the nexus forum and from what have personally noticed it seems that the particulars of individual's metabolism play an important role. The uptake, efficacy and metabolism of harmala alkaloids and its effects in the body on other alkaloids depends on many more factors than simply body weight.

Nevertheless I would like to encourage every forum member to experiment with:
- varying amounts of harmala alkaloids and dmt;
- delay between ingestion of harmalas and dmt;
- forms of ingestion, like gelcapped ground plant, filtered tea or purified extract;
- entire dose at once or at spaced intervals.

It would be great to have more data points. Please experiment with various combinations so that we can build up a more complete knowledge base for pharmahuasca use.

Personally, I have found 250 mg or more of harmalas and 50-75 mg dmt, taken together in the form of extracts to work best for me, and that dividing and spacing the doses gives a longer during and more manageable plateau instead of a wild rollercoaster peak.

I'm doing 300mg caapi alks tomorrow with 60mg spice.

That's makes it like 4/kg.

Sounds like I'm over doing it?

I got these dosage ideas from the Nexus

I concur on the gel caps, timing becomes more unreliable. This for both harmalas and/or spice.

Taken both at once or 15 or 30 minutes delay, can't make up my mind about it, so that lets me think it doesn't play much of a role.

I was missing out on that OJ arguments? First time I hear about that.

Whether a dose works or not is not like an ON-OFF, somewhere it starts to work but is that sufficient for the personal likes? Sometimes I want a 1.5 and other time I want a 3 mg/kg, they serve different style experience. Spice rate follows accordingly.