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I thought you were enlightened Options
 
Hyperspace Fool
#121 Posted : 9/9/2012 10:19:59 PM

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@endlessness & @joedirt

I agree with both of you in this. Though, I must say that I would be rather disappointed if this higher being that we humans are evolving towards was not more super-human than simply being able to go with the flow and take shit in stride. According to brother joedirt's rather mundane version of an enlightened being, I have met many thousands of people who might qualify.

I hold the bar somewhat higher when it comes to this, and I have encountered and experienced enough super-human abilities to know that there is certainly more. Many of you have probably had glimpses of telepathy while tripping at least. I am also convinced that telekinesis and levitation are not beyond the realm of what is possible.

At any rate, I won't try and turn this into a debate about siddhis and super powers. Cool

As for the usefulness of the terms G*d and Enlightenment... it is a mixed bag. Where there are better, more specific terms that can be used, I am all for using those terms. In general I prefer a sharper, more nuanced word or phrase. And yet, there are plenty of times when I find the two words in question perfectly suited for what I am discussing.

I guess it is a matter of different strokes for different folks.

I will just say that anything can be parroted by those who don't grok what they are echoing. Anything can be repeated ad nauseum until it seems to lose all meaning. (Pick any word and say it 100x in a row and see how it becomes something completely foreign.) The fact that people misuse and cheapen things is not IMO a reason to discard the originals.

JD brought up music and improvisation... this is something near and dear to my heart. While people most certainly do ape other musicians, and one can internalize and eventually transcend one's influences to be able to play with passion in one's own voice... it is also relevant to remember that there are only 12 notes. Even with octaves, rhythmic figures, tone and timbre... there are really only so many combinations of these 12 tones. Only so many chords that are possible, only so many scales etc. So it is not really a surprise if people trod on similar ground.

I also have a problem with the whole guru worship... but I give thanks to every master I have ever learned from. From the deepest bottom of my heart I give sincere thanks and praise to those people who showed me how shit works. I never worshiped my Kung Fu masters, but I DID have an immense amount of respect for them... and a willingness to follow their lead even when I didn't quite see where they were going with something.

I guess what I am saying is that simply copying the masters is pretty lame, but what guitar player wasn't influenced by Jimi Hendrix? Learning riffs from Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd is pretty much the de facto jumping off point for anyone who wants to play rock music IMHO. And the world would be a sorrier place without those shining lights to inspire us.
"Curiouser and curiouser..." ~ Alice

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." ~ Buddha
 

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joedirt
#122 Posted : 9/9/2012 11:14:35 PM

Not I

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Just wanted to clarify one thing.

I play guitar and have played in a few jam bands. There is nothing wrong with copying other musicians. In fact copying by ear is the best way to learn the art of improvising. The improviser's hands play the music in his head. The average Joe musician, that simply knows a bunch of scales, listens to the notes his hands play with his head. The difference is subtle, but the outcome is the difference between say a Duane Almman and any random musicians that can play a blues scale over 145 12 bar blues.


Also I don't discount that there are super powers and such. It's just that to someone from my position, I'd just like to gain perfect control of my own mind and be able to rise above every situation in life with immediate and sincere grace. Something I am a LONG way from being able to do.

I have seen enough on psychedelics to understand/believe that there is potentially something much grander than this already profound reality. I mean not only that, but just plain sober meditation has grown significantly deeper since I started many years ago. I don't deny that things like telepathy exist...I think there are all sorts of states of consciousness that we simply don't understand yet....kinda like endlessness said: We can understand that which is below, but that which is above is likely as impossible for us to grasp as it is for fish to grasp how we humans spend our lives.

If your religion, faith, devotion, or self proclaimed spirituality is not directly leading to an increase in kindness, empathy, compassion and tolerance for others then you have been misled.
 
Inner Paths
#123 Posted : 9/10/2012 5:33:28 AM

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Hyperspace Fool wrote:
I guess what I am saying is that simply copying the masters is pretty lame, but what guitar player wasn't influenced by Jimi Hendrix? Learning riffs from Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd is pretty much the de facto jumping off point for anyone who wants to play rock music IMHO. And the world would be a sorrier place without those shining lights to inspire us.


Not to derail the thread too far (though I do believe music can be a path to enlightenment or whatever you want to call it too) but I agree with you HF. Outright copying of a master is pretty unoriginal but like you said, most rock guitarists will use similar licks to Jimi Hendrix even if they don't know it, so impactful was Hendrix' influence on rock music. I myself, am a massive fan of Hendrix, so I'm not surprised when I hear licks that come out of my instrument that bear resemblance to his work...

What I have found after two decades of playing music is that it's the way you interpret and approach the material and how you put your feelings across that matter. I'm glad to have gotten to a point that when I listen back to my playing when I improvise I can hear little bits of influence and approach from the musicians I admire (be it Hendrix, Omar Rodriguez Lopez, Dave Gilmour, Les Claypool or Larry Lalonde etc, etc...). I have even found in the last few years that I find influence outside of music, I get inspired by Terence Mckenna's improvised raps or the tone I get from an Alex Grey or Dahli painting and subconsciously recreate that with my instrument, or at least try.

Anyway, enough thread sabotage Embarrased

I agree that the word enlightenment has become a loaded term and can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. The best thing is to use your meaning of the word and do what you can to attain that. Find your own path and your own journey, after all, we are the ones behind the wheel of our own view of reality. And most of all, try and enjoy it while it lasts.
"The love I've made is the shape of my space"
 
Hyperspace Fool
#124 Posted : 9/10/2012 6:39:12 AM

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Threads are made to be sabotaged.

Cool

At any rate, I agree with both of you once again. My somewhat loaded comment about just copying the licks of masters being lame hinged on the word JUST. If you stop there, and never become a creator of novel sounds and licks yourself... then it is kinda lame IMHO.

Of course JD and IPTOS both sound like they didn't stop there and are musicians worthy of the name. From what you both said, it sounds like you guys would both be tunesmiths right up my alley.

And, because you mentioned Les... I would say that there are musicians who reach such a level of unique expression that no one could ever truly ape them. You might be able to cop some Primus licks, but you will never be able to imitate all the weirdness that Col. Claypool brings to what he does. And, not for lack of trying, the two most fanatically copied musicians of the modern era (Bob Marley & Jimi Hendrix) are still as original as they were in their own time. Mahogany Rush and even SRV were not replacements for Jimi. None of Marley's kids can hold a candle to him. This is just how it is.

I'm not saying we shouldn't cover songs or copy the masters... the contrary, actually. I just say we shouldn't stop there. As much as I loved to go see Dark Star Orchestra, a band which on a good night could almost match, and in moments of brilliance, even outshine the concerts they were copying... they were still just a cover band. (DSO played entire historic Grateful Dead shows note for note, beginning to end) The Dead changed an entire culture and left an indelible mark on music, merchandise, psychedelics, concerts and much much more. They wrote a pantheon of songs that will never die. DSO, as great as they were... added nothing novel to the world. Something to be said for keeping a scene and spirit alive, though, when the founders and masters have left the building or fragmented into shadows of their former glory...

Anyway... Razz
"Curiouser and curiouser..." ~ Alice

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." ~ Buddha
 
bodhi
#125 Posted : 9/10/2012 7:01:05 AM

it's just a dream


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Be here
now.


The Experience of No Self

"it is ironic is it not, that the thing that terrifies oneself the most, which is the absence of self (a terrifying notion to a lot of people), is actually the exact same thing which gives rise to liberation, the liberation of self."


Psilocybin and Personality

"A review of studies on factors affecting response to psilocybin found that after dosage, the strongest predictor of alterations in consciousness was the personality trait of absorption (Studerus, Gamma, Kometer, & Vollenweider, 2012). Absorption is defined as a person’s tendency to have episodes of “total” attention where a person’s awareness is fully engaged in whatever has their interest. The degree to which people had “mystical” type experiences while on psilocybin was related to their individual proneness to absorption"


Absorption > No Self > Enlightenment



 
joedirt
#126 Posted : 9/10/2012 12:04:58 PM

Not I

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bodhi wrote:
Be here
now.


The Experience of No Self

"it is ironic is it not, that the thing that terrifies oneself the most, which is the absence of self (a terrifying notion to a lot of people), is actually the exact same thing which gives rise to liberation, the liberation of self."


Psilocybin and Personality

"A review of studies on factors affecting response to psilocybin found that after dosage, the strongest predictor of alterations in consciousness was the personality trait of absorption (Studerus, Gamma, Kometer, & Vollenweider, 2012). Absorption is defined as a person’s tendency to have episodes of “total” attention where a person’s awareness is fully engaged in whatever has their interest. The degree to which people had “mystical” type experiences while on psilocybin was related to their individual proneness to absorption"


Absorption > No Self > Enlightenment






This is fascinating. I have often said that I think the real mystical experience from psychedelics happens when a lot of factors come into play at once. One of them being, for me at least, deep meditation going into the experience. This absorption you speak of is what gets me there. It allows me to not get taken aback with amazement. When I really go for the clear light of the void I use raw focus to ignore all the colors and sounds. Just pure focus on the void between thoughts. Psychedelics being mind expanding and all seem to expand upon what I'm doing and act as a rocket of sorts to this most amazing transcendental state.

This may surprise some, but I can actually see the psychedelic tapestry that we all see with closed eyes...with marijuana and meditation. No it's certainly not like a good aya dose, but it's there. Faint, but ever moving and morphing.

The mind is a fascinating thing.
If your religion, faith, devotion, or self proclaimed spirituality is not directly leading to an increase in kindness, empathy, compassion and tolerance for others then you have been misled.
 
Inner Paths
#127 Posted : 9/10/2012 2:38:56 PM

Secretary of the Interior


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Hyperspace Fool wrote:
And, not for lack of trying, the two most fanatically copied musicians of the modern era (Bob Marley & Jimi Hendrix) are still as original as they were in their own time. Mahogany Rush and even SRV were not replacements for Jimi. None of Marley's kids can hold a candle to him. This is just how it is.


Funny you mention SRV, he was one of my first musical heroes as a wee lad and I was actually on a big SRV kick just recently. He definitely wasn't as revolutionary or original as Hendrix and no replacement for sure, but he is a good example of what I was talking about earlier and was someone who has taken things from the past (equal dosings of Hendrix and Albert King) and was insanely expressive with it and at his best, at least in my opinion, an amazing open channel for cosmic energies...

By the way HF, that wasn't a dig at you Big grin Just my opinion on a guitar master. As for Les... easily one of the most original musicans of the past decade or two. Maybe we should start a new thread, ha ha. And a nexus music collab or something!

"The love I've made is the shape of my space"
 
Hyperspace Fool
#128 Posted : 9/11/2012 8:44:46 AM

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No Worries IPTOS, I was a fan of SRV as well. While he was rather derivative of Jimi, King and other great bluesmen, he had enough of his own Austin twang and shining spirit to bring something new to the table. Wasn't trying to put him down, just more of an example of the pros and cons of aping the masters... kind of overextending the whole music metaphor, I suppose.

Anyway, another thread might be in order. If you start one along these lines, I will surely chime in. You may have to PM me to get me to notice though. (I haven't been all that diligent with watching for threads I wasn't already participating on lately.)

P.S. I actually have a very cool and unusual bootleg of Stevie Ray playing in David Bowie's touring band during rehearsals for the Let's Dance tour. I guess the lore is that after he played awesome (if subdued for him) session work on that album, Bowie was absolutely going to take him on tour... however, SRV's manager, seeing dollar signs, played hardball and tried to re-negotiate a price that was too high and pissed Bowie off due to the deal already having been sealed, and him already being on the plane to leave for the tour. There are conflicting versions of the story, and David has since said that he would have paid more, but the decision was made by his road manager to cut Stevie while he was actually incommunicado in the air! Anyway, I have a copy of the only existing live recording of SRV playing with David Bowie... a lengthy 2 CD rehearsal that totally RIPS. Stevie is letting loose and given a lot of space to solo, David is in good humor and improving lyrics, and the band is very tight. While the Let's Dance album is basically decent glossy pop for the most part... this bootleg is pure Rock & Roll with a lot of David's early gems (Ziggy Stardust, Moonage Daydream etc.) given an injection of bluesy awesomeness. Stevie even managed to take some songs that I was relatively indifferent to (like Station To Station), and make them shine. And the bootleg has my favorite version of Cat People ever.

Anyway, just thought I would mention that.
"Curiouser and curiouser..." ~ Alice

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." ~ Buddha
 
Eliyahu
#129 Posted : 9/11/2012 9:17:31 AM
סנדלפון


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Hyperspace Fool wrote:
No Worries IPTOS, I was a fan of SRV as well. While he was rather derivative of Jimi, King and other great bluesmen, he had enough of his own Austin twang and shining spirit to bring something new to the table. Wasn't trying to put him down, just more of an example of the pros and cons of aping the masters... kind of overextending the whole music metaphor, I suppose.

Anyway, another thread might be in order. If you start one along these lines, I will surely chime in. You may have to PM me to get me to notice though. (I haven't been all that diligent with watching for threads I wasn't already participating on lately.)

P.S. I actually have a very cool and unusual bootleg of Stevie Ray playing in David Bowie's touring band during rehearsals for the Let's Dance tour. I guess the lore is that after he played awesome (if subdued for him) session work on that album, Bowie was absolutely going to take him on tour... however, SRV's manager, seeing dollar signs, played hardball and tried to re-negotiate a price that was too high and pissed Bowie off due to the deal already having been sealed, and him already being on the plane to leave for the tour. There are conflicting versions of the story, and David has since said that he would have paid more, but the decision was made by his road manager to cut Stevie while he was actually incommunicado in the air! Anyway, I have a copy of the only existing live recording of SRV playing with David Bowie... a lengthy 2 CD rehearsal that totally RIPS. Stevie is letting loose and given a lot of space to solo, David is in good humor and improving lyrics, and the band is very tight. While the Let's Dance album is basically decent glossy pop for the most part... this bootleg is pure Rock & Roll with a lot of David's early gems (Ziggy Stardust, Moonage Daydream etc.) given an injection of bluesy awesomeness. Stevie even managed to take some songs that I was relatively indifferent to (like Station To Station), and make them shine. And the bootleg has my favorite version of Cat People ever.

Anyway, just thought I would mention that.




WOW! That recording sounds sweet. Shocked
And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not percieve the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, "brother let me remove the speck from your eye", when you yourself do not see the plank that is in your own eye?-Yeshua ben Yoseph
 
Inner Paths
#130 Posted : 9/11/2012 11:30:00 AM

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Cheers for that HF, I will definitely try and hunt it out online, sounds intriguing. I definitely didn't take what you said as a dig at SRV. I oscillate between being indifferent about him (especially when I'm listening to more boundary pushing music) to being completely enraptured, his heart and soul always end up winning me back over. I will get around to starting a thread more specific to this conversation at some point...
"The love I've made is the shape of my space"
 
Hyperspace Fool
#131 Posted : 9/11/2012 11:49:46 AM

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El & IPTOS Here is a blog with links to mp3s of the bootleg. http://vivalesbootlegs.b...-ray-vaughan-dallas.html

320kbps so they should be fine. 2 of the three links seem to still be operative.

This isn't where I got the show, having traded it for it the old fashioned way back in the day in massive tape and CD swapping sessions with another OCD collector.

At any rate, you should be able to check it out this way... haven't bothered downloading these mp3s as I have long ago ripped my old CD to lossless files. Who know's this might even be a better copy (lower generation master tape or whatever)...

"Curiouser and curiouser..." ~ Alice

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." ~ Buddha
 
Inner Paths
#132 Posted : 9/11/2012 1:10:27 PM

Secretary of the Interior


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Much appreciated HF Thumbs up
"The love I've made is the shape of my space"
 
unclesyd
#133 Posted : 1/18/2013 4:11:25 AM

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the yogi is detered by niether material joys, or dragged down with the sufferings of the material world. He seeks only happiness threw his own spiritual journey. nothing matters cause in the end all will be well....

easier said then done, and nope not enlightened at all. more confused yet even more assured than ever, what a wonder full state to be for a while......
Remember, if the women dont find you handsome.....they might as well find you handy.
 
christian
#134 Posted : 1/18/2013 9:51:40 AM

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unclesyd wrote:
easier said then done, and nope not enlightened at all. more confused yet even more assured than ever, what a wonder full state to be for a while......


Being a yogi has never been an easy path. No spiritual quest is gonna be easy, it has to be lived through, not imagined!

Today there are many distractions and many so called 'responsabilities' that it makes sense that anyone borne into the luxury of the West at least give this life a go at living in balance, before leaving it all behind, because i believe that is the path such a person should walk, to have 'walked the walk', so to speak, like Buddha did.

You have to have experienced life before you can make an educated decision if it grooves with you or not. To let go of it without having this knowledge is simply nothing more than running away. Don't listen to others, make up your own mind from living this life out, or it's all meaningless-hence the direct felt personal experience!

To me, it's still possible to live a very spiritual life in the West and amongst it's challenges, it just means avoiding the nonsense and focussing on what's important.

Your life, your choice..and it doesn't really matter in the end, as long as you enjoyed it.


"Eat your vegetables and do as you're told, or you won't be going to the funfair!"
 
MomentOfTruth
#135 Posted : 8/15/2013 8:50:59 PM

Astro-Travellin


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I just had to bump this thread.

100% cosigned by MomentOfTruth!

Thanks, Vovin!
Coinci-Transcendentalism
 
Cognitive Heart
#136 Posted : 5/12/2014 12:06:34 AM

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Bump!

Very good topic for discussion. It is so crucial to act responsibly and respectfully in the Nexus. The first post inquires much of what I value within appreciating others on this forum. Thank you!

Thumbs up
'What's going to happen?' 'Something wonderful.'

Skip the manual, now, where's the master switch?

We are interstellar stardust, the re-dox co-factors of existence. Serve the sacred laws of the universe before your time comes to an end. Oh yes, you shall be rewarded.
 
Beyond Me
#137 Posted : 7/27/2014 10:18:38 PM
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vovin wrote:
If you truly are on the path towards growth my friends it is important to embody that which you seek. By doing so you will shift your mentality towards that goal.


Peace, love, curiosity, inner-nonreactivity coupled with patience to observable phenomena. I absolutely love the nexus, glad I can participate in helping to bring this mentality to others.
Whenever you are immersed in compulsive thinking. You don't want to be where you are. Here, Now.

-Eckhart Tolle
 
Doc Buxin
#138 Posted : 6/16/2015 1:33:31 AM

Pay No Mind


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*BUMP*


Awesome thread...

Important topics...

Interesting viewpoints...

I love the nexus!Love

Peace to every one.Wink
Freedom's so hard
When we are all bound by laws
Etched in the scheme of nature's own hand
Unseen by all those who fail
In their pursuit of fate
 
amandanita
#139 Posted : 6/16/2015 8:49:14 AM

Love, love love love


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Hyperspace Fool wrote:
@endlessness & @joedirt


I hold the bar somewhat higher when it comes to this, and I have encountered and experienced enough super-human abilities to know that there is certainly more. Many of you have probably had glimpses of telepathy while tripping at least. I am also convinced that telekinesis and levitation are not beyond the realm of what is possible.


Stagnation is death (not ego death, just death!)

I've experienced full-on telepathy with another person. First words, then images. The other person had experience with psychedelics but was sober at the time. I believe that if scientists would have been there with their equipment, they would have had their proof too!

That experience, manifest of itself, not attempted by either of us but naturally happening, has made me think many times that you might be right, there might be even more seemingly impossible abilities that would prove possible. It's certainly... possible!

That said, before going beyond anything, one should learn what one is going beyond, so one doesn't go beyond (discard) something mindlessly but does so mindfully Smile

Doc Buxin wrote:
*BUMP*
Hey Doctor Heartmedicine, thanks for resurrecting this Smile
O Immortal, O Soma
Pavamana, Word of God
In flesh and living blood
Resurrected fruit of the Tree of life
 
BongWizard
#140 Posted : 6/16/2015 11:46:36 AM

Hyperspace Cowboy


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Release yourself from the shackles of personal and societal beliefs, preconceptions and limitations and anything is possible. Relinquish your fear, pride and ego. These uniquely human constructs are what stop us from reaching our potential.
"Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be a spirit of tolerance in the entire population." -Albert Einstein


I'm not a big fan of SWIM. I mean, I've never met the guy, but any time I hear about him, he's doing something sketchy.
 
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