but you say that d. inoxia can increase the naseua from cactus?

I wonder if it would make sense to use a few d. stramonium seeds first to increase the effects and block naseau, followed by one or two d. inoxia seeds to decrease the stimulant effect...

From what I have read, the seed pods will get bigger and bigger until they crack open a little, and then eventually open completely and fall apart. you can either harvest the pod once it's cracked open, or if this is your own plant and not one on the corner of your neighbor's front lawn, you can tie a paper bag around the seed pods and just let them open up and drop most of the seeds, harvesting the rest when you're ready. But I'm pretty sure you want to wait until the seed pod is fully mature before harvesting the seeds, at least for quantity.

I have access to several huge datura plants (I'm not sure if they are Inoxia or Strumonium). I have been curious about whether the time that you harvest them is going to effect potency or not. I plan on harvesting some seeds early this summer and harvesting some later in the fall and comparing them.

Yes, D. inoxia seemed to slightly increase the nausea from the cactus. SWIM said it wasn't much though. SWIM doesn't get nausea from cactus, but did get very slight nausea, when using 3 D. inoxia seeds with it. He needs to do more testing to be sure it was actually the seeds that did it.

SWIM had a slight increase in nausea form oral bufotenine when used with 3 D. inoxia seeds, but a complete blockage of nausea when used with 3 D. stramonium seeds.

It may be that a large dose of D. inoxia will block the nausea. I'm not sure. 3 D. inoxia seeds are about as potent as 1.5 D. stramonium seeds. They are weaker. So maybe 6 seeds would block the nausea. I'm just not sure.

Has anyone else tried 3 D. inoxia with any other psychedelics?

i love d inoxia plus cactus, probably most enjoyable psychedelic to date in my books.

peace love and light

kudos 69 ron i wouldnt have tried this without your thoughts

I'm thinking of trying datura inoxia as a sleep aid... I noticed these 2 blurbs on a scopolamine page:



Even if the sleep aid dosage isn't nearly the dosage recommended on this page, I suppose if it works well, it might not be wise to use as a long-term sleep solution, or to take d. inoxia more than 2-3 times a week? So far I've tried 5 seeds and didn't notice anything, but I'm gradually going up.

At the doses used as a sleep aid, I don't think it matters much, but still I wouldn't use them everyday. It's a good idea to skip a day or two now and then. It’s really not best to use anything everyday. I’d say 3 days tops and then skip a day or two.

is there any known reason for D. stramonium being stimulant and D. inoxia not?

have you tried D. metel?

Yes, but remember I’m talking specifically about the seeds. Alkaloid content is not the same in the rest of the plant.

Datura stramonium seeds contain up to 0.7% tropane alkaloids with 80% being hyoscyamine which is a stimulant at low doses. Datura inoxia seeds contain up to 0.4% tropane alkaloids with 97% being scopolamine which is a sedative at low doses.

They have very different effects. You can tell them apart blind folded for sure with ease.

I know very little about Datura metel.

i recently found some of these seeds. consumed one on a night where i wanted to get to bed alittle faster. ate it by chewing between my front teeth for about 15 min and not swallowing the resultant juices until then. i smoked a little weed a few hours before as well. the feeling of a clear alcohol intoxication came over me. smoked the rest of weed in my chillum and was significantly stronger than it would have been on normal occasions. the next stage moved into a twisted feeling but again in a more sharp and clear form than alcohol. got into bed and closed eyes while playing fat old sun followed by alans psychadelic breakfast. Recieved nice cev similar to a low dose experience of our keystone, color splotches of fractalish shape (mostly mono to simple chromatic shifts within blocks). Moved into a breif period where beautiful gradient color background with small segments of windows pipes screensaver drawn out as 2d lines rather than pipes. got slightly more detailed but forgotten as i needed some sleep before work

Slept quite soundly until rise for work the next day. Felt groggy at rise, still very dreamy and continued feeling of previous night. Get to work wimaxing in the heat all day. This really made me tire quite fast, the sun was draining more so than ever thought possible. Became verry tired and dozed off during tests, etc. Felt slightly fluish but nothing too bad. Eventually back to relative baseline after 18-20 hrs.

THis was after only one seed. I know tropanes have a strong effect on me but damn 1 seed. That and unless i want the next day to be seriously dreamy, i better not use this as a sleep aid. It would be great during the day and if timed correctly would work for sleep. Natural is easier though. Amaing recreational substance though, need to look into the stramonium.

I think weed in combination with it is why it effected you like that. SWIM doesn't smoke weed.

It does absorb sublingually. But the effects are pretty much the same.

It has a very specific enhancement effect for marijuana. That's most likely why he got those effects. Those were the typical effects you get from mixing it with marijuana.

I've using d. inoxia seeds over the past few weeks as a sleep aid. I started with 1 and built up until I felt effects. For me..It's not until I do 10 or 11 that I feel any effect. I've never gone past and don't plan to exceed 11, but it seems that less than 10 or maybe 9 seeds doesn't really do anything. I'm 5'9" 135 lbs btw.. I take the seeds and usually combine with 1 or 2 3mg melatonin pills and in an hour or so it's Woozey City! (I've also noticed dry mouth sometimes occurs)

Anyway, I was wondering, 69ron, what does SWIY think about using these seeds for a prolonged period as a sleep aid? I've been using them probably 4-6 days a week for the past weeks now and I'm just wondering how safe it could be in the long run (months, maybe year+). I'm not going to wake up dead some morning am I? . After ceasing use of this pattern (4-6 days a week) for over a week I didn't feel any of the "withdrawal" effects that are listed in that previous link posted for higher scopolamine doses, and I didn't have an espcially difficult time going to sleep.

FWIW, I don't suffer from severe insomnia - I can go to sleep but it usually takes hours of lying in bed at a time that I "should" be sleepy, until I normally fall asleep. But with a sleep aid, either melatonin, these seeds, or a combo of both, I can drift to sleep in a more timely manner. But again I'm just curious 69ron, what your thoughts are for longer term use of this substance in a case similiar to mine...

You're using about 10 seeds. Each seed weighs an average of 9.92 mg. They contain up to 0.44% alkaloids (97% of that being scopolamine). So they contain up to 43 micrograms of alkaloids per average sized seed. With 97% being scopolamine, that's up to 41.7 micrograms of scopolamine per seed. So 10 seeds come to a maximum of 417 micrograms of scopolamine. That's the same as the low end dose used for motion sickness and Parkinsonian Tremor, in which case the dose is repeated every 8 hours. For Parkinsonian Tremor it's often taken everyday.

The dose you're using is completely safe. I don't think you have anything to worry about. Some people use scopolamine everyday for various conditions. If you're taking 10 seeds once a day, that's less that's 1/3 the amount of scopolamine usually given to treat Parkinsonian Tremor.

While I don't see any real danger in any reports about long term scopolamine use in the dosage range you're using, I would still not do it everyday. I would skip at least 2 days a week.

It's not going to build up to dangerous levels in the dose you're using. People use 3 times that dose a day for Parkinsonian Tremor, often for years.

Good to hear.. Thanks for the numbers and info!

I have seen a few referances that state smoking datura along with cannabis is realy toxic for the brain. I gues you could say moderate use and high dose made for some real crispy critters. Aparently it is commonly smoked with cannabis ie some smokers always mix with dartra with there cannabis I have seen referances to India and the wandering yogis

What level of use will bring toxic effects I do not know. The fact that you can not determin if you are awake or sleeping is a bit scary. As well as forgetting how many you have taken. This is common in benzo ODs they cant remember they took a pill of not. I was with a girl once who accidently did this. She passed out and began to bleed from her nose. She ended up in the hospital on sucide watch for 48 hours before she could convince them it was accidental and yes she was drinking along with it VERY DANGEROUS on benzos.

Datura metel (fastuosa) is most fantastic as an aya admixture. one seed chewed/swallowed after maoi, prior to dmtea, is prime nausea control. the seeds are large, one does the trick.



edit: be safe.

With D. inoxia we know exactly what the maximum amout of scopolamine is per seed.

The reason I’m talking about seeds and not any other part of the plant is because the seeds are the most consistent in alkaloid content. D. inoxia is the main source of scopolamine and has been studied extensively, so we know what a safe dose of it is.

With those other daturas how do you know how much you’re taking? I wouldn’t bother with them unless I knew the maximum alkaloid content of them. Leaves vary in potency way too much to mess around with.

The only seeds that I know that are safe and dependable in the right dosage amounts are D. inoxia and D. stramonium. With 10 seeds a day of either of these, you’re not going to ever build up anywhere near a dangerous dosage level. It’s not possible. The maximum safe recommended dose for both is 20 seeds a day. 1-3 is the recommended dose. But with these other daturas who knows?

Daturas are not something to mess around with if you don’t know the exact maximum doses to use.

If you’re going to use Datura metel, you’d better be sure of the exactly dosage you’re using. You’d better do some research and find out how much alkaloids the seeds can contain per mg. You don’t want to take more than 800 micrograms of scopolamine or hyoscyamine. A good dose is 50-400 micrograms. 1500 micrograms is the maximum safe dose.

How many Datura metal seeds contain 400 micrograms? If you don’t know, you should NOT take them.

This thread is about using Datua inoxia safely, not irresponsibly. If you’re going to substitute Datua inoxia with Datura metal seeds, then please post the alkaloid content of them, so that others can know what a safe dose is. As it is right now, no one talking about these other Datura has offered any such information. Without knowing the alkaloid content of these other datura it is very risky to use them.

Also using any part of a leaf, stem, flower, etc., without weighing it is dangerous. Unlike the seeds, these plant parts vary wildly in alkaloid contents, and in density and weight per piece. Using leaves, stems, flowers, etc., it’s very hard to get an accurate and consistent dosage. You could take a small piece one day and be fine, then the next day take the same amount and be in the hospital. It’s just not safe. With the seeds, the alkaloid content is much more stable, and the size and density of the seeds varies only a tiny bit, so its much easier to get a consistent dosage from the seeds. I would not use any other part of the plant.

I’ve done my research. I’m not basing this on personal opinion. The leaves of most daturas vary in alkaloid content as well as alkaloid mix. Meaning they could sometimes contain mostly hyoscyamine, and at other times contain mostly scopolamine, and at other times contain mostly atropine. The concentration of each alkaloid in the leaves varies by season, age, etc. There is no way to get a consistent dose from the leaves. It’s just not possible. Only the seeds contain a somewhat consistent mix and concentration of alkaloids. That is why I only talk about using seeds and no other part of the plant.

I found some info on metel
D. metel is used in Chinese medicine as an antispasmodic crude drug and the dry flowers are used as an anaesthetic. D. metel var. muricata (obtained from Nagoya, Japan) was double recessive with respect to the genes concerning colour and form of the corolla in experiments involving 4 varieties: var. metel (white, simple corolla), var. rubra (purple, simple), var. fastuosa (purple, double or triple) and var. muricata (white, double). It was suggested that the results supported the proposal that these variants should be considered as varieties or forms of a single species, D. metel. Scopolamine was always dominant over hyoscyamine in seeds, flowers and leaves of the 4 varieties. Scopolamine content (dry weight basis) of seeds, flowers and leaves ranged from 0.294 (var. rubra) to 0.631% (var. fastuosa), 0.19 (var. metel) to 0.698% (var. rubra), and 0.042 (var. rubra) to 0.255% (var. metel), respectively. It was concluded that all 4 varieties can be utilized as sources of scopolamine.

aw, heavy smack down on the first post. don't be so overly upset with the newbie. your cautions regarding weight are noted, and it was never said this other guy just did whatever he wanted to because he felt like it (re: personal opinion) without any research whatsoever.

smoking seeds produces a headache.



awesome - and productive.

can anyone get a weight range on the seeds?

Z, I'm just trying to keep this thread from getting too far out there.

Datura is very potent and needs to be used wisely. Haphazard use of it kills people.

When the dosage information is available, and the maximum concentrations of alkaloids are known for a given part of a Datura plant, then and only then can it be used safely.

All too often people treat Datura casually, don’t weigh out their doses, don’t know how potent their material is, etc., and end up overdosing.

Datura kills people all the time. It’s been killing people for thousands of years. But it only kills stupid people. If you know the proper dose, you can use it safely and have nothing at all to worry about.

The information I provided on Datura inoxia seeds in this thread is well known information. The seeds have a known alkaloid content, and potency is fairly consistent. If taking 10 seeds a day, one is taking a completely safe dose. There is no question about it.

I’m trying hard to prevent this thread from becoming a recipe for accidental death. If people read this thread and follow the 10 seed a day rule for Datura inoxia, they are ok, but if they start experimenting with other unknown species of Datura of unknown potency, then that’s a recipe for disaster.

Far too many people have died from overdosing on Datura. This is a serious issue. We can’t have readers seeing this thread and thinking, “oh cool…I’ll get a few leaves from my neighbor’s Datura plant and make some tea with it to get high” without knowing the dangers of it.

If you take 10 seeds of Datura inoxia, you’ll be fine. That’s at most about 400 micrograms of scopolamine. A very safe dose. If you take 40 seeds, you’re overdosing. 40 seeds could contain about 1600 micrograms. 1500 micrograms is the maxim safe dose for scopolamine. Anything beyond that could be fatal.

There’s a fine line between a safe dose and a lethal dose. I get worried when I see people talking about using leaves without weighing them and especially without knowing exactly how much alkaloids the leaves could contain.

If I sound harsh, I’m sorry. I don’t mean to. I’m just trying to keep this thread full of information to help people use scopolamine safely. Keep in mind that Datura kills stupid people all the time. The last thing I want is some idiot reading this thread, then ingesting 500 Datura inoxia seeds thinking its safe and then dying.