This weekend a friend of mine took LSD and then on the come down about 8 hours later we all began to smoke some DMT. She tried one hit and loved it, about an hour later she took another hit and things went horribly bad. She took 4 of the largest hits from our machine that i have ever seen anyone take. After the 4th hit she lay back and began moaning, kind of like something had possessed her. She closed her eyes but her eyes were noticeably bulging out under the eyelids and moving around at a great speed. We pated her on the back and rubbed her legs and told her that she was ok. She could not respond, my boyfriend stuck his finger in her mouth because he thought she may be choking on her own tongue (maybe thats why she was making the moaning sound). Nope she wasnt choking. She tells us "everything will work ok" tho it was almost impossible to understand her. She kept closing her eyes, when she would do this her breathing would become shallow, this frightened us so we tried to keep her eyes open, keep her here with us. It took her about 30 minutes to become herself again, she couldn't describe the experience well, but when she did she said "you know how good DMT can be?... well it can be just that bad, it was the most horrible experience of my life." Its hard to describe exactly what happened to her, she looked to have problems physically breathing and appeared to be having a mild seizure just behind her eye lids. We were terrified, nothing like this has ever happened from DMT before in my presence. I swear up and down that DMT is the most wonderful substance, a miracle even, but what happened here?? Im scared of DMT's power now. Can it truly produce seizures and body failure? Im not one to think badly on DMT so im looking for an explination. ANYONE? ANYTHING? I will answer questions if you think of. Thank-you for your help. ps: she is fine, she never has had a problem like this before, very experienced psychadelic user.

what was the dosage of the lsd?

Well it raises blood pressure and heartrate. So an increase in breathing like that would be normal. As your heart beats more...you need more oxygen. The rapid eye movement is also normal, i notice this on every trip almost. I can feel it occurring but can't really control it. DMT can give you scary or bad trips just like any other psychedelic. It's to be expected.

[quote:6289edce60="Seven"]what was the dosage of the lsd?[/quote:6289edce60] She took 3 hits, low dose for her tolerance level.

like xeno said, with psychedelics come bad trips sometimes. maybe the combo with the lsd just sent her over the edge. that sucks though, swims sorry to hear.

Hum, people will hate me for saying this, but i think that body failure from psychedelics are truly a possibility. Ok, i know that there is no documented case of tryptamine deaths. But do a extensive reading of erowid trip reports of these substances ( i know they are not DMT ) : 5-meo-amt, 5-meo-dmt. Read the trip report here of the guy who orally ( i know it<s not smoked.. ) took lots of DMT with a MAOI and almost stoped breathing. Find erowid psylocibin mushrooms trip reports when users tell stuff like : '' with a 6 grams dosage, i kind of lost consiousness, regain it while having a seizure, and i had to put every energy that i had to keep on breathing. '' We have to remember that smoked DMT hasnt been studied that much. As a matter of fact, dmt via another route than orally wih a MAOI hasnt been studied much. Shamans from south america swear that ayahuasca CAN kill you. There is some anecdotal reports that smoked 5-meo-dmt can induce low breathing, unconsicouness, blue lips and a whole pletora of disturbing symptoms. Of course, these reports are not documented, because, huh, there is very few scientific papers, if any, of the effect these substances have on humans. I mean, who did DMT studies on humans beside Strassman? And even those studies were REALLY small scale ones. Same goes with mushrooms, but with mushrooms, there is a tradition that goes back far in time of people doing it. Smoked DMT has never been used before well, before us!!! At least it is probably more used than in the sixties, that is, in the smoked form. Same goes for salvia. A toke of opium is very different than a hit of morphine ; a cup of ayahuasca is very different than 4 tokes of high purity DMT crystals. Are you sure it was LSD ? I was fucked over with 5-meo-amt blotter once. A girl i know had vomiting, leg seizures and everything. And that's the physical side of it, it was like if some entites of doom were trying to fucking kill her. No jokes. I'll never buy any crap from the black market anymore! Anyway and anyhow, a big LSD trip with large dmt dose on the comedown after 30 hours of no sleep and very few foods... WHO REALLY KNOWS what it can do to you. Play safe man, learn some reanimation techniques ( i did after my 5-meo-amt epidose) and dont hesitate to call an ambulance if things goes horribly wrong. I am glad the girl is fine! seriously! Edit : Yeah, i know my english sucks and that i dont sound credible because of this.

Panic attack?

Nah nah, no bad trip, no panic attacks. Believe me, the seizure/breathing affair is absolutly not like the typical '' oh no, i'm gonna die '' feeling that psychedelics more or less always gives. It's not like hyperventilation, high heartrate, anxiety and everything. If the lips of a spaced out 5-meo-dmt person are going blue, it is not a panic attack of any kind. We all know what a so called bad trip is and i think that we are all pretty much used to the unconfortable feelings that indole psychedelics typically does. We all had the sense that we were about to undego our very death while under the influence. As far as i am concerned, i'v been there ( high heart rate, body load, nausea from mushrooms, hyperventilation ) countless time, so much that it doesnt bother me anymore. I am so calm when these feelings arise that they they dont affect me now. But the rare event of a seizure/trembling, a loss of consciousness, and a breathing that seems to fade and almost stop is another thing. Some of Shulgins inventions ( RC's ) seem to maybe induce this ( and other... ) kind of immediate health hasards with some regularity. I am not saying that DMT and Mushrooms are unsafe. In fact, i am convinced that they are amongst the safest psychedelic drugs one can use. Huh, i never did have myself some seizures and/or breathing difficulty beside what i decribed above as the usual thing. But the amount of anecdotal evidence of this kind of phenomenon with mushrooms or compounds that are not so distantly related to DMT ( 5-meo-dmt for instance ) should merit some attention of our part. To be fearless in our explorations of the tryptamine realm is by and large a good thing. That dont mean that we sould be careless and dismiss the not so nice possible bad side effects as wimpy integrity failure on the part of some fearful bad tripping panicked users.

freddy- thank-you for your input everyone raves about how natural and safe DMT is, and I was one of those people. But now, im not so sure. I still LOVE and Cherish DMT but I am going to be much more careful from here on out, again, this is the ONLY bad experience I have witnessed among the hundreds of positive experiences. And to answer your question- yes- definitly LSD.

I've had only one dmt-overload (150 mg eaten on 3.5 g Syrian Rue seed) - no body malfuctions or spasms, just too cerebrally ignited. I knew I could ride it through - what did your friend mean when she said she knew she'd be ok..? And interestingly our gut, intestine and throughout the sympathetic nevrous system we have those tryptamine, HT-5 type receptors. All over the body, not just the brain.! So we're dosing the whole body too, it's not just the brain that LOVES dmt in it's cells ! I wonder if after 4 Machine hits, it's the MAO enzymes that are overloaded, and LSD's effcect on the same receptor-system makes you 'loose' bodily control, possibly stop breathing etc etc. The things that the sympathetic nervous systems does for us all the time..? The Shaman diet boosts serotonin levels by eating bananas and rice, otherwise they get 'sick' from long term use of Aya', no..? Was this the same kind of sickness..?

[quote:3fa9fe08bf="El Ka Bong"]what did your friend mean when she said she knew she'd be ok..? [/quote:3fa9fe08bf] during the entire ordeal she was in and out of conciseness. we were shaking her and making sure she was breathing while reassuring her that it would be ok, she was trying to communicate to us that "everything was going to be ok, that she was ok" The way it came out while she was speaking however was hard to understand she would say things like "it will all work", its working fine, etc. When she would close here eyes (loosing conciseness?) she said her visuals would go all black that she felt she was dying. You know Alex Greys painting entitled Death that is the cover of the spirit molecule book? Perhaps she experienced near death in a much more scary way than depicted in the picture. Just a thought.

Look likes a panic attac anyway. Under a heavy dose of DMT a PA is surely 'breathtaking' To not speak about combo LSD+DMT ! During a panic attac breathing can become difficult even if you know that it's 'just' a panic attac.

i've witnessed something like this: happend with a 40mg+- 5meo-dmt dose. was her first dmt ever girl (250lb) was sitting on the side of the bed when she took the dose. she was instructed to lay back after the hit. but what happened is she took the hit and held it in, and started falling forward. me and two others grabbed her and lowered her to the floor and layer her down. i said her name, and she started making that aaaaaaaaaaaaaah noise. she was out of it for a solid few minutes. when she opened her eyes but she still wasn't all back. eyes wandering. moment later she was repeating, oh my god. and was rubbing her self. when she was finally all coherent she told us that was the most amazing thing she had ever experienced. me and the others we're quite relieved. i knew she'd be fine but they didn't. my cat has caught himself making that aaaaaah noise before on n,n . but was conscious of it. he said it felt really good. kinda like ohm chanting.