Doses were 100mg of each. Harmala's from rue. All of the participants were already experienced. We've done it together several times previously without incident. Within the group the variance between effectiveness of the doses was so wide that I am still trying to figure out what was the main factor. If everyone had been blown apart then I would know for sure it was dose related. The one woman who was hit the hardest has done many ceremonies in different places and she said she has never experienced anything like that.

All this is largely irrelevant to the original question I posed though, but i can see how my wording and terminology might have thrown people off. Words like overdose, hypertensive crisis and antidote don't set a good tone.

So i will try to rephrase:

If someone intentionally or unintentionally ingests too much harmala and ends up in an uncomfortable (but not life threatening) state, is there any way to bring that state down, other than to wait it out? .....advice like don't take so much next time is not a help here ;-)

I know cooling down can help a lot, lying still and breathing (when its possible), but i am thinking more along the lines of some kind of supplement, not necessarily a sedative or some prescription medication but anything that could help calm things down in the event that things get too out of hand.

100mg is not a high dose at all. Anyone with lot's of ayahuasca experience, esp in the jungle etc should be familiar with doses 2,3 maybe up to 5x that.

All of the effects described here are common to harmalas, it's part of the experience they produce. Ayahuasca is called "la purga" for a reason..and they talk about the "mariacion", and how ayahuasca drinkers need to learn in order to get they're "sea legs" so they can deal with being in a state of nausea or ataxia and still move around.

I would say, ya gotta do what everyone else has to do...let the experience pass. Have water, juice and vomit buckets available..and lay down and close the eyes. The flu like sense of nausea and spinning, and heavy tracers usually means your in a state of internal movement, meaning with eyes closed in the dark your going to be traveling though inner visionary realms.

Everything passes, in time.

I love Jamie's advice.

i also like wer'd the idea of essential oils. I notice that naseau sometimes is produced by aromatic particles (nasty ones) so why not have naseau reducing aromatics. After all, harmala is an aromatic particle.

So thanks guys. I'll keep this in mind. My addition is Yoga, body movements. If what Jamie says is right and these feels are a state of internal movements, I could easily extroplate the argument and use the yogic practices to align physical and internal movements.. y'know , the way it as intended.

^But the above is NOT from experience. But I will try it myself maybe you can do it. I need a lot more than 200mg harmalas to get naseaus but other compounds do it much easier.

The friend with experience of many ceremonies, were these ceremonies using traditional caapi based ayahuasca? The reason that I asked about separation of alkaloids was because a difference between caapi and rue is that rue contains harmaline and caapi does not. I have read subjective reports that for some people, harmaline may have a stronger body load than harmine.

Another difference with traditional ayahuasca that I see with your medicine is the use of extracted harmalas and DMT. With extracts, there is nothing to purge. When a lot of plant material is ingested, nausea can be expressed by purging. The relief that people can get from a purge may distract from the residual nausea that harmalas inevitably cause. Or maybe it is because with a clean extract, the gut has nothing to "chew on" and the harmala nausea is experienced in its purified form too, with no distractions.

I agree with Jamie, one has to essentially sit and bear it out. My standard for pharma is at least 200 mg purified rue extract. I have not had people complaining about unbearable harmala related symptoms. Your friend who suffers from 100 mg already may be extraordinarily sensitive to the rue alkaloids. Which makes me wonder, did you perform any Manske salting purification steps to filter out the vasicine related alkaloids? These quinazoline alkaloids may have some side effects specifically with women.

Perhaps some apple sauce taken right after the harmalas and DMT could help to make the nausea easier to handle. Apple calms the gut as well as providing some filling, that can also function as a substrate for purgatory relief. The apple sauce can be infused with ginger to lessen the nausea even more.

If you are looking for a chemical antidote for a nervous jittery harmala terror I would say a low dose of a benzodiazepine (vallium, xanax, temazepam, etc). Like, less than the recommended dose. Especially if they are not familiar with benzos. There are no listed interactions between benzos and maoi's as far as I know, and it should do the trick (that's what I would use). Drinking a lot of water may help speed up the flushing out process.

Also make sure not to take harmalas if you take dissociatives (DXM especially), stimulants, or really any other drug besides psychs or MJ. Even if you are not high at the time of taking the harmalas, the residual effects of those drugs can influence brain chemistry for days and harmalas can multiply those influences.

=Treehouse