Howdy Nexus,

I want to ask you all about what kind of opportunities are available for someone who wants to work with psychedelic plants when the time comes that one can legally do so. My situation is a bit unique though so forgive me for all of this preamble...

I left college a few years ago for a number of reasons. I was studying psychology and was disillusioned with the entire educational process in the United States. I come from a family that highly values education but even so my experience just felt like a huge waste of time and it was costing more money than me or my family had. I discovered psychedelics in my first year of college and I knew that I wanted to work with them in some capacity. Most of the research and work that I did for school had some sort of connection to psychedelic medicine and one day I was told in private by my professor (the head of the psych department) that I was pretty much wasting my time. He said the entire field of study (of psychedelics) is fringe and nobody takes it seriously, and I'd be better off focusing on more "grounded" applications of therapy. Needless to say I gave him a copy of Stan Grofs "LSD Psychotherapy" and I dropped all of my classes the next week.

I can honestly say that dropping out was one of the best choices I've ever made. Aside from having to start making payments on loans (groan), I'm now free to pursue my interests and I actually have money to do so. Since then I've become financially independent, self employed, and I'm happy to say the future looks very promising.

I've known for some time now that I would like to work with psychedelics and share them with people. I've always envisioned that one day (and I feel like almost every Nexian shares this dream) there could be a center in which ethnobotanicals are grown and shared with the general public. I think it'd be awesome if there were a place that the public could go to learn about these incredible plants and their applications, participate in workshops, and should they show an interest or be in need of healing they could actually take some of these substances under the care of trained professionals.

I look at the incredible progress in which drug policy is being reformed and I have high hopes that certain psychedelic compounds will be available for use by people who are terminally ill, face addiction, or are in need of psychological healing. I feel confident that these medicines will only be legally available by prescription, and/or under direct supervision of a trained psychotherapist who has been licensed to facilitate psychedelic sessions.

So to cut to the chase, I know that I want to share these gifts with the world and it seems like the political climate might be open to it in 10-20 years (or sooner, who knows...). Unfortunately there is no way that a retreat center like I envision could legally exist without accreditation and trained professionals, and I imagine there would be a good deal of bureaucracy and regulation involved in the process. I'm struggling with the decision to return to school (a different one, perhaps one that works with MAPS in some way) and pursue a path in psychotherapy in hopes that should prohibition on these substances end or become less strict, I might be in the professional position to be able to facilitate psychedelic experiences to those in need.

Now some of my concerns are that to become an accredited psychotherapist means years and years of intense schoolwork and internships, and to be frank I don't really have any desire to be a "non-psychedelic" therapist. In fact, I have no desire to pursue therapy as a career path at all. If I can avoid it I would prefer not to make any money at all from it. Really, I would just love to be a part of a project in the future which helps to bring these medicines to people who would really benefit from them, but one cannot do that without jumping through all of the hoops first.

Do you all think it would be worth 5+ years of school and massive amounts of debt in the hopes that maybe in several years I might be able to facilitate psychedelic sessions as an independent practitioner? Like I said, I don't really have any interest in therapy as a career and I don't actually care about making money from it as I hope to remain self-employed growing natural plant-based medicines for sick people. I just want to be able to share psychedelics and do so in a way that is legal and accredited so that people feel safe and know I'm not just some loony giving out psilocybin under the radar. I don't know how I could make this happen without going through years of schoolwork, which I'm prepared to do if it's genuinely the only viable option. It just seems so ridiculous to me to have to pay massive sums of money to get written approval from intellectual elites on a piece of paper which essentially "proves" that you're competent and not a quack.

I'm wondering if there are any other options which might allow someone to work with psychedelics but that don't require a masters degree? I know that to be a counselor you do not always have to obtain a degree, but you cannot prescribe or recommend medicine or substances (as far as I know); so I highly doubt an unaccredited counselor would have much success trying to hand out psychedelics.

Anyways.../ramble. What would you suggest? I know that many people here share the same dream and I'm curious if you have any intention of pursuing it? And if so what is your educational background, what is your plan for pursuing a career with psychedelic plants?

Thanks everyone.

This would definitely apply to me! My personal dream is to run a dispensary/consciousness expansion center one day. We have plans to be at the forefront of consciousness expansion in the United States. More details to follow once I begin the process...

As for your question, it is clearly very difficult to be able to work with these sacraments in the US. Even Strassman has tremendous difficulty in securing all of the proper licenses, and then the DMT itself, before he could begin his experimentation.

There is a show called Drugs Inc., and while it does tend to give a negative view of drug use, there is one episode called "Hallucinogens" that I definitely recommend you watch. I believe it is available for free online, maybe on Vimeo.

The video discusses two guys, Rob Velez and Dimitri Mugianis, who might be of interest to you. The former uses ayahuasca to treat patients in Peru, and he has no medical training. He is an ex-derivatives trader from Wall St. And the latter is a former heroin addict/musician who cured his addiction with ibogaine and now seeks to do the same for others underground.

If this really is your passion, I would not trust the US medical education system to allow you to practice what you desire. Even if you were to become an expert, securing the licenses is too much of a hassle. If you want to make real change, you may have to move countries or risk doing it underground. You could even get into contact with one of these guys (or any psychedelic treatment center) and see if they have any job openings. Moving to another country and/or only worrying about the needs of your patients may be enough for you to feel justified in your practices.

I think 20 years is a bit optimistic, but I definitely feel you.
Thankfully, my school has been more accepting of my psychedelic research, even as an undergrad.

There is a course that will be offered at NYU, as part of their psychedelic research program that will teach you how to be a sitter for their experiments. As the rate of human trials increases in the coming years, I imagine there will be demand for people who know how to lead someone though a psychedelic experience, even if it's in a clinical or scientific setting.

I'll try and dig up a link. It was mentioned at the end of a recent New Yorker article called 'The Trip Treatment.'

Blessings
~ND

Thanks DMTheory, I've heard of Drugs Inc but haven't watched it, though that particular episode does sound quite interesting. I'll have to check it out, thanks!

I agree, I don't personally feel like I absolutely need to be accredited or anything but at the same time I'm really interested in helping as many people as possible and not just those who might already be drawn to these medicines and therefore more likely to willingly participate in an "underground" session. I would be unable to help countless people because A) my practice would be illegal and so very few people would actually know about it and/or B) many of the people who do know about it would not feel comfortable partaking because its illegal and I'm just some guy with drugs, not a doctor who they trust.

Perhaps that's something I need to think more about though. I'm not so sure about relocating but I personally have no qualms undermining the law. But at the same time I think there's something to be said for personal responsibility when someone places their psychological well-being in your hands. While I might disagree with the methods of "accreditation", I think it's important to be trained and well versed in dealing with people who face serious psychological stress or trauma. Right now I can confidently say that I am passionate and knowledgeable to an extent in regards to psychoactive plants, but when it comes down to it as of right now I'm really just some guy with drugs and a passion, and I know next to nothing about mental health. I would not feel comfortable professionally facilitating psychedelic sessions with troubled persons unless I were "accredited". Being a sitter for friends and family is one thing, inviting people from the general public who are likely facing serious problems to confide in me as a mental health professional is another.

Ah, I dunno maybe I'm overthinking it? I've obviously got plenty of time to figure it out.


You really think so? Why's that if you don't mind me asking? I know MAPS is hoping to have MDMA available as a prescribed treatment for PTSD by 2021 and we've already seen how fast cannabis legalization has been moving since it finally got a foothold. Perhaps I am a bit optimistic but I certainly hope that by that time psychedelics will have been recognized for their potential for at least some restricted medical applications.

NYU has been doing some great work with psychedelics. I'd love to check out that link if you find it, but in the meantime I'll do a google search for The Trip Treatment.

Thanks guys

most people have never even heard of MAPS, iboga, ayahuasca, don't know what MDMA is and likely support cannabis legalization as a human right to use drugs, not as a legit theraputic tool..and most people are probly not prepared to get behind any claims of LSD being beneficial for society etc.

"The video discusses two guys, Rob Velez"

If yall dont know, you should really look into what went down at his center...long story short, there no longer is a center.

I can imagine seeing these kind of places popping up in the west, but still many people would rather use entheogens at home or with friends. I certainly don't want some person laying they're own trip on me trying to tell me how I should do it or structure such experiences. I think we should be very careful about how we attempt to bring these things into the mainstream.

Mainstream psychedelic therapy will be for people with 3 letter titles, which if you don't go back to school, is not you..IMO..which means it might not be legal for you either.

There is a lot of exciting things happening in the world of academia right now. Neuroscience and modern high resolution imaging technology are beginning to unlock the secrets of the human brain. This field is also revolutionizing the cognitive and behavioral sciences and shedding light into the black box of the human mind. Molecular biology and genetics are unraveling the language of creation for us. Quantum sciences are redefining our understanding of the physical universe and the nature of reality. Biotechnology, nanotechnology, and artificial intelligence are coming out of the pages of sci-fi novels and into the laboratory. It doesn't take much foresight to see that we are standing on the verge of a revolution.

Meanwhile, the field of psychedelic research has been slowly legitimatising itself and creating a growing body of evidence for the safety and efficacy of these compounds for a variety of applications. While the majority of the academic world is not yet aware of it, there is a strong momentum building toward the emergence of psychedelic research into the mainstream. As we continue to gain a better understanding of these compounds, we are also beginning to recognize their wide-ranging interdisciplinary implications. For those who have been keeping up with what is happening in this area of research, it also doesn't take much foresight to see the revolution on the horizon.

As evidenced by your professor's reaction, the old guard stands strong, and despite the fact that the entrenched paradigms are quickly becoming obsolete, they are not going to be easy to overcome. So it's up to us to lay the foundation and support the emergence and convergence of the new paradigms. Like any pioneering enterprise the road before us is long and arduous, but take heart in the fact that change is inevitable and all roads point toward a very psychedelic future.

So that's all well and good, but the question remains... How do I get involved and help bring this about right now?

I'm going to take for granted that you've already read So You Want to be a Psychedelic Researcher?, Multidisciplinary Approaches to Psychedelic Scholarship, and Hints for Someone Looking for a Psychedelic Studies Graduate Program (attached for those who don't want to log in to academia to download it). I'm also going to assume you are familiar with MAPS resources for students.

The obvious route is going to be to look into schools that already offer programs based on or related to psychedelics. Examples would be places like Sofia University (Formerly The Institute of Transpersonal Psychology), California Institute of Integral Studies, Naropa University, Akamai University, John F. Kennedy University, and Saybrook University.

You could also try to get involved with programs at some of the more major universities that already have programs researching psychedelics. Johns Hopkins University, New York University, the University of New Mexico, and UCLA have all been engaged in psychedelic research recently.

Personally I think a more productive route is to create a place for this research at whatever institute you happen to find yourself in. Here is an overview of the basic plan I have outlined for myself in this pursuit:

Step 1: Educate yourself: Ideally you should have a solid foundation in the historical literature on psychedelic research and be up to date with current findings. Be able to dispel misinformation, make strong evidence based arguments, and direct people to research and resources.

Step 2: Know your discipline: It's a good idea to have a solid foundation in the field in which you wish to introduce the topic of psychedelics. While it's great to start the conversation about psychedelics as an undergrad and attempt to steer your research projects toward integrating psychedelic research, it's really best to apply yourself to building a solid foundation in your discipline at this time.

Step 3: Explore your resources: With a strong foundation both in your discipline and in the most current research, start looking for institutions/departments/labs/professors that are engaging in research related to your area of interest and reach out to them. Explain your interests in a straight forward professional manner and see if they have a place for you or can help direct you to other resources.

Step 4: Create the framework: Once you find yourself in a suitable institution demonstrate to your mentors how integration of psychedelic research can be a solid contribution to helping expand your field. Every University likes to be on the cutting edge of current research and psychedelics fit this bill perfectly if presented in a mature rational manner strongly based in the evidence.

Step 5: Be impeccable in your work: As you progress along the path of integrating psychedelic research into your institution, do your best to make it easy for others to follow in your footsteps. Hold yourself to the highest standard possible and make sure your methodology is above reproach. This area is still very taboo in minds of the greater academic community so it's important to be able to demonstrate professionalism and integrity in your work.

I've tried to make this as generalized as possible for any field of academic pursuit, but my field is Psychology so it may be a bit specialized or bias toward that pursuit. I'd love insight from people pursuing psychedelic integration into other fields on their approaches.

Now academia is not the only path facilitating psychedelic work. As mentioned previously you could join up with existing centers or retreats. You could also try working with or through the NAC, Daime, UDV or the like. You don't really need any kind of special qualifications or institutions to do healing work with these medicines, if you are truly drawn to the path of medicine healing, start where you are, do what you can where you can, and don't worry yourself too much about certifications and laws.

The question I have to ask though, is if you are not interested in traditional therapy, why are you interested in psychedelic therapy? It seems kinds of antithetical to have an interest in one and not the other. What do you hope to accomplish with psychedelics that you could not accomplish via other routes, say something like mindfulness based therapy for example?

Thats a very good point, and to be honest I'm not sure I would want that either. I know many people, however, feel exactly the opposite and would not feel safe taking these substances by themselves and would otherwise have no outlet for such an experience.



Another good point, but I have hope for the future. Though I wouldn't go so far as to say that most people don't know what MDMA is. I don't think I've ever met anyone who hasn't heard of ecstasy, and the vast majority of people that I know under 30 know what MDMA itself is. Even ayahuasca is becoming a pretty common item of discussion these days (or so it seems). Mainstream outlets like NPR and even Fox seem to be covering it (albeit not very thoroughly) every so often. I've had conversations about treating soldiers who have PTSD with MDMA with people you would least expect, who've never so much as smoked a joint nevermind taken a drug like MDMA or LSD. But nonetheless people are open to the idea of these medicines if so called "reputable people" can make a case that they will help people. Especially soldiers, if you say it will help the soldiers people have a hard time saying they disapprove. I do see your point though and perhaps we have a longer way to go than I thought.

I appreciate your thoughts jamie, some good perspective. I've never ever wanted to be someone with a three-letter title, and the whole reason I left school in the first place was because I felt like I could help people more effectively outside of the academic/social framework provided by our society. Funny how things can change over time like that.

As I write this its occurred to me that not only does a "professional" approach provide credibility in the eyes of the general public (the ones who might most benefit from it), but it also provides a foundation to create the most impact. I understand that I don't have to become part of the system to share psychedelics and I can always pursue a more "underground" approach which has it's own obvious benefits, but choosing such a route leaves out the possibility of ever being funded or having the opportunity to reach an exponential amount of people in comparison to the people you could reach while trying to stay under the radar. There's lots of cool underground psychedelic research and the Nexus is at the forefront, but I can't imagine what we could be doing by now if these projects had some real funding behind them. Imagine what we might know and the kinds of projects that we could pursue...to me that seems exciting, it's just unfortunate that it comes with indoctrination into this giant bureaucratic system.



Thanks for your input, dreamer! I think this is very sound advice, and I can imagine that it's especially important to maintain a certain level of professionalism when pursuing such a scrutinized field.

I am familiar with all of the resources you referenced, and I've spent several hours looking through the offered courses and undergrad/masters programs of each of those schools. I'm not so concerned about which academic institution I would attend but moreso whether or not I should pursue the academic route at all.



I've thought a lot about this as well and I think it's a great suggestion. I am in touch with two different religious groups from Colombia and Brazil, respectively, and there is the possibility of undertaking that path. My only hesitation here is that with religious groups one generally has to adhere to specific beliefs and practices, whereas a "therapeutic" context (as opposed to strictly spiritual) allows for more flexibility and could provide more outlets for integration. Many people don't identify with spirituality and they are turned off when they hear the word. I think that's great advice though and I think I should start by trying to network with pre-existing groups as you and others have suggested. It's all about healing and as long as healing happens I suppose the context in which it occurs is of secondary importance.

For me to say I'm not interested in traditional therapy might have been overblown on my part. I've been interested in psychology most of my life and I've always been drawn to the idea of therapy for some reason. I love talking to people, getting to know them. That's why I originally went to school to study psychology, and finding psychedelics just happened to open me up to looking at psychology in an entirely new light. I think traditional routes of therapy and whatnot are helpful tools. Clearly they have improved the lives of millions of people. The same could be said for contemplative practices and a host of methods now commonly utilized in the field of mental health. I think all of these things are equally valuable and necessary for the healing process, but psychedelics fundamentally changed me as a person and my experiences with them will stick with me and shape my decisions for the rest of my life. I really believe that they are one of the most effective tools for self-analyzing and introspection we have available. One psychedelic session can provide results comparable to years of traditional therapy. Now don't get me wrong, I think that integration is obviously incredibly important and a psychedelic session would only be supplemental to a longer and more intensive therapy program which could include traditional modes of psychotherapy and mindfulness. But that said, I could not see myself working with someone whose life I genuinely feel could be improved by psychedelics and yet not legally be able to give them that option or even suggest it. If I'm really trying to help people I don't want to have to withhold what could be the most profound experience of someone's entire life; it would feel like a cop-out to me after learning about what options are really out there. There are plenty of good therapists out there right now changing peoples lives and I don't feel like my energy is most needed there, but there are very few people who are exploring positive applications for psychedelics and there is a burgeoning need for them in our culture. That is where I feel like I could contribute the most and really help people the most. I want to leave an impact where it is most needed. So...that was a really long way of saying that I do have an interest in traditional therapy and I see that it is adjunct with, not separate from, psychedelic therapy; but I just can't see myself fully devoted to healing people without touching the subject of psychedelics. To me it would feel like offering to help someone hand-write a 50 page essay and never mentioning that I have a computer we could use. Or if a person who hasn't eaten anything in a long time and is extremely hungry approaches me asking for my help, and I give them a "certified" saltine even though I have an "un-certified" 3 course meal in my bag. I'd rather break the rules and just give them the good stuff. If I'm claiming to want to help people why would I offer anything less than what I actually have to offer? Those weren't great analogies but I hope you see what I'm trying to say.

Additionally, I don't necessarily think one needs to have a masters degree or be accredited to be able to help people in the way that traditional therapists often do. And while I don't think one needs a masters degree to administer psychedelics either, I do think that if you're going to be giving drugs to people as a medical professional you should be held accountable. So in other words I don't want to jump through the hoops and spend years of my life taking tests and paying off debt just to be a traditional therapist but I wouldn't mind doing all of that if it meant that I had a legal framework to work with psychedelics.

Just follow your heart and expect no "rewards"...

Great answers

I can relate so much to your thoughts.

I went ahead and finished school, I'm in step 3 of my outlined process on my way to graduate school as soon as I can find the right lab for me. I currently spend the majority of my time working with homeless and addict populations. I can't even begin to describe how hard it is to know I'm sitting on the tools that could potentially change the my clients lives forever but having to hold my tongue day in and day out. I'm trying to take a big picture perspective and understand that in the long run if I am to use medicine to treat those most in need, that I have to work within and understand the current paradigm.

With MAPS looking at 2021 as a potential launch date for psychedelic clinics, I should be right on track to get involved right out of grad school when I have my magical three letter suffix. As a contingency plan and an extra layer of protection I am also a member of the NAC and am planning to eventually start my own branch so I can move toward a traditional ceremonial model of treatment. I'm still very much in the early resume building stages of the process but I have a clear intention and every passing day helps me clarify and refine my vision.

So that is how I am chasing my impossible dream (click both words).

Should I happen to achieve it, I will always have a a place for someone with the right intentions.

Undergrad here finishing up a B.S. in Biology. Currently doing cell & molecular work on oncological things, but I've got my knowledge/interests in all sort of areas. I think Dreamer had some excellent advice, and I wanted to share that I'm having similar thoughts on grad school indecision. I think we need to make whatever field we migrate into more environmentally favorable to psychedelic research, and put in serious work wherever you're at in your academic/life path. I think momentum is building if we let it.
Lots to be said, but I've had a long week and I'm tired
just wanted to wish you luck on your path and encourage to get in where you think you'll fit in with your endeavors

That's awesome man! I'm sure you must best incredibly excited for the next few years. I can't imagine how frustrating that must be biting your tongue like that but I give you serious props for sticking with it and doing important work to help those who need it. I think that shows that you really care about the people you work with. The fact that you're willing to work within the current paradigm as it stands now says a lot about your character. Much respect there, brother. It's encouraging to hear that you've stuck with it this long and it seems like your making progress towards your goal. Judging from your input here on the Nexus and my limited interactions with you, I feel like this work is in good hands. I couldn't hope for a better representative of our community. I wish you the best of luck in your career and your search for a graduate program that suits you; and should you ever have an opening I can confidently say that me and a small army of other Nexians will drop whatever we're doing and be the first in line.

Love the links by the way. I remember in grade school we learned about Philippe Petit and our teacher read us a picture book about him. It's funny I never remembered his name but every now and then I would be reminded of that book and think "Damn, that dude was crazy. I can't even imagine doing that..." It's always been one of those things that makes me wonder what's possible and reconsider what we might really be capable of. Funny that you should bring him up.

And Terence is always great, of course

Thanks so much for your advice dreamer, and everyone else who shared their input (DMTheory, jamie, boogerz, Nathaniel.Dread, cave paintings). It's more helpful than you might think, I really value the Nexus and the wisdom, knowledge, and experience of everyone here.