analytical chemist
   
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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because there's more to sonication than just lysing cells "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 341 Joined: 15-Oct-2009 Last visit: 11-Oct-2012
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Thanks 
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analytical chemist
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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this stuff was pioneered in the 50's, but it seems like it's often overlooked today. I guess companies like S-A prefer it that way and it isn't really taught in college chem. btw...reduction of dmt oxide (under inert gas) with a dash of zinc may be done very rapidly and efficiently. this approach is extremely useful in reduction reactions. "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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Posts: 981 Joined: 24-Dec-2009 Last visit: 13-Oct-2022
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Interesting, thanks. I also see that microwave's are being used a fair amount. That was news to me when i first saw it.
“Right here and now, one quanta away, there is raging a universe of active intelligence that is transhuman, hyperdimensional, and extremely alien... What is driving religious feeling today is a wish for contact with this other universe.”
― Terence McKenna
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analytical chemist
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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*for informational purposes only (don't wreck your microwave) "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 149 Joined: 06-May-2009 Last visit: 29-Dec-2013
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benzyme wrote:
btw...reduction of dmt oxide (under inert gas) with a dash of zinc may be done very rapidly and efficiently. this approach is extremely useful in reduction reactions.
Does this also imply that ultrasound could be a safer alternative to the usage of LAH, for example, in some or all of Shulgin's reduction reactions from PIHKAL? Sorry if this is a stupid question. I know just enough chem to know that I don't know much at all... -JM
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 149 Joined: 06-May-2009 Last visit: 29-Dec-2013
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OK, now that I've read over the paper in more detail it appears that US just increases the efficiency of these reactions. So LAH would still be needed, but the yield would be greater using US. Does this sound accurate?
Would this also potentially apply to the LAH-free alternatives for these types of reactions? Some alternative approaches using safer reduction agents have been discussed elsewhere, but the general consensus seems to indicate that they're often low-yielding in comparison.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 222 Joined: 25-Nov-2008 Last visit: 06-Dec-2015 Location: Laughing Jesus Buddha Palace
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I have seen these used in the production of biodiesel and a certain company hielscher sells even the smallest apparatus at a whopping $6k. Though if alternative uses in reduction is SWIY approach than all is well in the world. In the end we will conserve only what we love. We will love only what we understand. We will understand only what we are taught. ~Baba Dioum
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analytical chemist
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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jmaxton wrote:
Would this also potentially apply to the LAH-free alternatives for these types of reactions? Some alternative approaches using safer reduction agents have been discussed elsewhere, but the general consensus seems to indicate that they're often low-yielding in comparison.
Diborane is a relatively safer alternative, and is just as effective as LAH if not better. also, Urishibara catalysts are safer alternatives to Raney catalysts for reductive alkylation reactions "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 149 Joined: 06-May-2009 Last visit: 29-Dec-2013
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benzyme wrote:
Diborane is a relatively safer alternative, and is just as effective as LAH if not better.
also, Urishibara catalysts are safer alternatives to Raney catalysts for reductive alkylation reactions
Definitely way over my head (I'm not a chemist), but thanks for the response. I've always been fascinated by the art of molecular manipulation so you've given me much to ponder. Just to be clear, I'd never attempt any such syntheses because I'm so incredibly ignorant of basic lab technique and safety. But I enjoy understanding more about how it all works, so thank you. -JM
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analytical chemist
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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sry, tried to ul a pdf...i'll link to an awesome book involving sonochemistry. there is one which mentions production of carbon nanotubes, and even sonication of benzene for 24h at 0C...the product: buckminsterfullerene. "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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analytical chemist
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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http://dl.lux.bookfi.org...5e9787c4bdf9cfaea35/_as/[Filip_M._Nowak]_Sonochemistry_Theory,_Reactions_(BookFi.org).pdf quote, right click, select all in link, open in new tab "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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Communications-Security Analyst
Posts: 1280 Joined: 17-Aug-2014 Last visit: 05-Feb-2024 Location: Nirvana
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Neat-o! Looks like I'll be dusting off the homogenizer in the real near future  S-A only exists to make chem life as difficult (and expensive) as humanly possible imho.
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Stiletto Stoner
Posts: 1132 Joined: 18-Nov-2008 Last visit: 15-Mar-2015 Location: Blazin'
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Links die, Nexus is eternal (and I couldn't get it to work ala benzyme). Got GVG ? Mhm. Got DMT ? Pandora wrote:Nexus enjoys cutting edge and ongoing superior programming skills of the owner of this site (The Traveler), including recent switching to the .me domain name. I'm still, I'm still Jenny from the block Simon Jester wrote:"WTF n00b, buy the $100 vapor pipe or GTFO" Ignorance of the law does not protect you from prosecution
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Boundary condition
Posts: 8617 Joined: 30-Aug-2008 Last visit: 07-Nov-2024 Location: square root of minus one
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Thanks, Shaolin. The website was in Russian and wouldn't work. I gave up but then... And thanks, Benzyme for the interesting links  “There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work." ― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
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analytical chemist
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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yw. sorry about the link, i'm on iDevices, so i couldn't upload a pdf. "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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