im aware of the phalaris way of the future thread, but its just too long for comfort, i was hoping to get some bulletpoints of concise info on the subject by starting a new thread! most specificly im aware of the general information, generally desirable strains being the p.arundinacea and p.brachystachys and extracting with limo is supposed to be effective way to seperate from gramine, i know that you can source seeds sometimes from horticultural vendors for very cheap and very expensive from entheogenic vendors, plugs of specific substrains for even more expensive, what i desire is to know if there is a most desireable source/strain and a most desirable processing tec also any notes to assist in succesful propagation would be nice, as far as i know its one of those very wet very dry things, it likes to be flooded in the winter and completly baked to death in the summer(for high alkaloid content)any corrections here would be welcome

>phalaris has DMT but also a plethora of other alkaloids that may or may not be something you would want to ingest.
>gramine and hordenine are not a serious concern as they are both insoluble in naphtha, and almost insoluble in limonene (so it would seem most NPSs would filter the majority of it out
>arund has a REALLY variable chemotype, and might be the hardest to get a relatively clean extract of dmt out of
>brachystachys or canariensis may or may not have a relatively clean alkaloid profile.

it seems that more people need to extract and analyze.
i myself intend to have some arund and aquatica extracts TLC'd

people seem to overcomplicate this plant quite a bit... but as best as i can tell its pretty straightforward

Here's my phalaris experience plain and simple:
Phalaris is phalaris. Phalaris is not dmt.
You can make potent extracts from wheat grass juicing P. Bracjystachys consistently.
A/B with vinegar lime naphtha/acetone//xylene works too.
Follow a dog to where the good patches are.

Tips: don't get discouraged easily.
This is probably my favorite genus to work with. Still so much mystery.
Make sure you harvest either really early in the morning or in the evening

For consistency, find european aquatica and brachystachys strains.
If making a tea, start low and work your way up.
These brews arent as active for some people.
I have had success with northwest varieties of P. Aruninacea and P. Paradoxa.
Cultivated success with Arundincea, Aquatica, and Brachystachys.

Give your plants love.
Northwest P. Arundinacea strains are in fact "wild".
Think theyre higher in beta carbolines and unbioassayed tryptamines like 5-meo-nmt. Personal experience defines northwest zone 7b P. Arundinacea as orally active by itself. Early spring and late fall results.

..brother Sir,



...which one: Northwest India or Northwest Pakistan? (Swat Valley ??????)

Based upon Nexus analysis:

Phalaris brachystachys has both the highest and cleanest alkaloid profile of all the phalaris we have analyzed. We have conflicting information however, one analysis shows very high DMT and one shows very high 5-MEO-DMT. Both come from seed grown material. It's possible there are at least a couple different strains making the rounds.

Phalaris aquatica var. AQ1 has the cleanest and highest DMT profile of the named clones we have analyzed. It is speculated that Phalaris aquatica var. Australia may be the same strain and thus is a good candidate for a clean high DMT strain, but this is based solely on the old literature, we have not yet performed the analysis to verify these claims.

Phalaris arundinacea var. Big Medicine is an arundinacea strain selected for DMT. Being an arund it has a fairly wide profile and tends to yield rather low, but it is a reliable source for DMT that will survive deep freeze unlike the aquatica strains.

Phalaris arundinacea var. Yugo Red contains DMT as well. It has an even wider profile and lower DMT content than the big medicine. This stain is the least desirable of the ones we have analyzed, however if you can't get your hands on anything else this is also a reliable cold weather DMT source.

Gramine and hordenine appear to be mostly insoluble in most non-polar solvents at room temperature. For sure they will not come through in significant amounts in an extraction with naphtha, limonine, or vegetable oil (sunflower is the one that was tested).

Processing with a wheatgrass juicer is highly inefficient, you only end up with about 30% of the material turning into juice, you have to process the masticated leftovers if you want to recover the alkaloids from the other 70% or so of material. It's much easier to just boil the material off the bat and not bother messing around with juicing at all.

Any standard a/b or stb tek using a non-polar solvent works fine for phalaris.

Propagation is simple, these plants are very hardy. The will survive drought and flood, they will survive full sun and shade. Arundinacea will survive deep freezes but other strains like aquatica and brachystachys will not, they overwinter fine in a sunny windowsill however.

Seed grown grass is highly variable, you can't rely on grass grown from seed to have the same alkaloid profile as its parent. Nor can you rely on the profile of your seed grown grass being the same as that of others seed grown grass, even from the same seed source.

Finally as stressed above wild grass is a crapshoot, tread carefully when working with the wild grasses because every single patch you find is going to have a different alkaloid profile. Some may be very useful and highly entheogenic, others may be highly unpleasant and/or not psychoactive at all.

keep in mind that Appleseed was specific, in that Yugo Red was a 5-MeO-DMT producer when fresh...it was Turkey Red that was selected for 5-MeO-DMT when used dry.

The way you guys explain this, other than an unpredictable alkaloid profile, I don't see any real challenges, is that correct? Why aren't more people extracting from this?

Is it hard to collect seeds from your own grown grass? Buy seeds ones then reseed and share. In case seed distribution gets banned.

And is it difficult to select-breed a desirable strain?

Cheers

With wild grasses the unpredictable alkaloid profile is really the main concern. A handful of people are working with the wild stuff but it's still pretty unexplored territory. More people aren't extracting from it because there are simpler more reliable sources fairly readily available.

It's not hard at all to collect seeds from your own grass, some seeds of specific strains are said to breed true to their parent type but it seems in the majority the profile is highly variable making growing from seed about as unpredictable as working with wild types.

It's not really difficult to selectively breed, it's just tedious, you need to plant a large amount and test them all for the desired alkaloids and then make sure they can be cloned and propagate the clones... Luckily this work has already been done for us and the named strains listed above are readily available as clones.

I thought the only way to clone planst was to cut off a piece and replant. But the clones you mean are bought in seed form right? If you buy clone seeds, can you collect their offspring seeds? Forever? So you only need to buy them ones? And spread the love. Or will this also lead to variable profiles?

If this is possible, then: no worries for the future, they cant stop us then..

Phalaris is cloned via the rhizomes.




There are some seeds that seem to grow true to type (P. brachystachys being an example). In general though you can assume most Phalaris varieties will not breed true to type. For example if you seed out a Phalaris arundinacea var "Big Medicine" plant, the grass that grows from the seeds will not be the big medicine variety, you need to clone the plant in order to maintain the exact alkaloid profile present in the selected strains.

I'd love to have a Big Medicine clone to work with. Although I tried it several times I'm not able to dig up a source. Help would be appreciated!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senescence ?

check out companion plants Steppa..they should have them I think. If you are in canada, like me, you are out of luck. I had to get my clones from someone else..no vendors at this time offer phalaris clones in canada, and noone would ship them outside of the USA. If you are in Europe this may be a problem as well.

This may be the last frontier of acquiring clones of these Phalaris strains. Unless you trust your money with the word of a vendor.



https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=44990

Conclusion:

- Extracting DMT from Phalaris requires seeds from clones.
- Cloning (Through rhizomes) requires too much skill for a lay man. You rely on vendors etc to sell seeds.
- The next generation of seeds from your grown plants tend to have an unstable alkaloid profile.

This is not great news. If the aim is to become independent from clone sellers, whats the best way?

- Growing from a true to type var such as P. brachystachys and collecting seeds, hoping for a similar alkaloid profile next round by replanting the seeds collected? Is it even feasible to collect seeds? How much work is it? Worth the effort?

- Letting a true to type var such as P. brachystachys regrow itself? Will the grass ones it is grown hold ground and keep surviving by regrowing its own seeds and blocking out intruders (other plants)? Enabling to reharvest from the same place several years.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalaris_%28plant%29

Is it possible to: cut the grass before seeds mature; collect the cuttings for extraction; leave the remaining grass to regrow; etc? This way no new seeds will form with a different alkaloid profile. You keep regrowing from the same clone. This could even enable to use none true to type var's for several seasons, only having to buy clone seeds ones. Good for cold weather locations etc.

Will this work?

"- Cloning (Through rhizomes) requires too much skill for a lay man. You rely on vendors etc to sell seeds"

Its extremely easy.

Is it? I tried google, couldnt find an answer. Closest I got: http://www.ohio.edu/peop...adings/reproduction.html

So how do you do it? Let the seeds come out underground, cut of the stems in small parts? Use those as new seeds and repeat? Sounds like a lot of work for +10,000 (?) grass seeds? I mean, how many do you need?

I cant imagine anything easier than cutting the grass and regrowing from the same root.

Forgive my ignorance

Woah now, there seems to be some serious misunderstanding here. Let's address this point by point.


Generally you want avoid using seeds and want to work with clones taken by separating the rhizomes (roots).


Cloning is incredibly easy, you just basically tear the rhizome mass into pieces and replant them. Perhaps this guide will help clarify just how simple it is.


This is correct, this is why it is preferred to clone the grass in order to maintain a stable alkaloid profile and not bother with seeds at all if you can help it.


All it takes is obtaining one clone and you can propagate it infinitely via cloning.


This will work if you get a variety that breeds true to type, but it is a lot more work than cloning and collecting enough seed to make this process viable can be difficult.


P. brachystachys is an annual plant meaning it goes to seed and dies off every year. However according to this post it is possible to grow it for more than one season and take clones if you cut off the flower heads before they can seed out. It's still easier to just get a perennial phalaris clone, but that is another viable option.


Yes that is exactly how it works.

Wow, my tendency to over complicate things is amazing lol!

Thanks for clearing this one out dreamer.

So rhizome cloning simply means dividing and re-potting the soil beneath a grown plant. Seems easy enough yes. Glad to hear my idea works about cutting the grass before it reseeds itself, forcing it to continue living.

Final question, how many square meters are required for growing (eg. Phalaris aquatica var. AQ1) to yield 1g DMT? You mentioned in a previous posts that 5kg grass = 1.5g alkaloids = 300mg DMT? That's 15kg grass for 1g DMT.