Interesting statement Handel, your post remind me strongly of the books by C. Castaneda. Have you read one these actually? I also find it interesting that you haven't taken entheogens but seem to be very involved in higher "businesses". Do you meditate regularly?

Quotations from "The active side of infinity" by C. Castaneda:

>Interesting statement Handel, your post remind me strongly of the books by C. Castaneda. Have you read one these actually?

I'm aware of them, but I haven't read them. I think they're referring to Archons, for these "predators". I "talked" with an "Archon" a few months ago. It tried to feed off me during a lucid dream session, in my bedroom (he was shooting tentacles from his chest to leech on my chakra points for feeding). I told him to hold off, and that I would give him the feed he needed (I didn't), as long as he would answer some of my questions. He agreed. He said that originally, he was a humanoid, living on some planet. He died from a nuclear explosion. When that happens, the blast is so violent, he said, that the soul doesn't survive in one piece. While the soul is eternal, they lost their ability to re-incarnate, because they're not whole anymore. They have the option to live off as leaches (stealing the energy of others), or to get back to the galactic core to restart their evolution from the very beginning (from bacteria, which is a lot to let go of). Or, he could be lying, of course.

> I also find it interesting that you haven't taken entheogens but seem to be very involved in higher "businesses". Do you meditate regularly?

Not very regularly (I'd like to do more). This whole lucid dream thing started on my 40th birthday (pretty much on the day!). To me, it felt that I had a life contract to be "blind" of all these things for half my life (I was an stern atheist), and then be "enabled" again for the rest of my life. Or something like that. A lot of weird things happened afterwards.

Very interesting, Handel. I'd like to read more of your dream experiences, you should write alot more reports here! I'm sure others are interested as well.

None of my + 100 psychedelic trips ever made me aware of chakras, OBEs or "archons", so this is still something I have to process on an intellectual level. I do however feel like being held captive in a human coop, so I see them as parables. I've also met shitty entities on my trips (I call one of them God), however they were only temporary and not really leechers, more like unsuccessful destroyers ... I'm still alive.

Seeing from your older posts that you are aware of Thomas Campbell and My Big TOE. There's probably no need to read C. Castaneda then, as he offers only descriptions, where Campbell offers descriptions and solutions. The slap you got by "Mother Aya" is totally valid for me and sounds like an omen, not everybody seems to be made for Aya. Ann Shulgin tried it twice and got slapped as well ("There was no way to learn anything, except how to stay alive.") AFAIK her trip mark is + 2000, so I guess she offers solid advice.

Good luck with your meditations!

Yeah, I don't write here a lot, since people here might be more interested in DMT trips instead. I do write them on my various blogs though. I'll msg you with some of my blog posts.

Parts 6 and 7 posted.



I will likely post this elsewhere at some point, yes. I think it could still use some editing and refinement, though. I wanted to post it here first, while still in progress, because I feel like this community is likely to have some insightful feedback that I can integrate into this before I consider it complete.

Also, in the course of writing this there have been some further developments that may well turn into a Part 8 at some point... But one thing at a time, I suppose.

Thanks for the insightful post, Handel, I actually agree with a lot of this. The analogy of domesticated livestock is very apt, and like you I don't believe in a black & white view of "evil" in the reductionist sense of something that exists for its own sake independent of more nuanced factors and motivations. I also agree that we're not necessarily "better" than them, and due to survival instinct, motivated self-interest, and other evolutionary selective forces we would most likely behave in a similar manner if we were in their position.

That being said, what I am emphasizing in my writeup isn't a view of "good vs. evil," but an attempt to illuminate how catastrophically harmful and manipulative these beings can be from our perspective, which I hope you understand is the perspective that I'm most concerned with at the moment. This is partly in reaction to what I view as the prevailing notion that these beings are somehow universally good and trustworthy, and a desire to help my fellow humans avoid falling into the same traps that I did.

I have definitely seen their "good" side, at least from their perspective, but I'm also hesitant to make any excuses on their behalf. I am still rather shocked at the discrepancy between their pretensions of enlightened morals and how they really operate. I don't think that my actions during my confrontation with them came anywhere near deserving of the horrors that they subsequently inflicted upon me. Their behavior during this period was nothing like that of a dispassionately pragmatic "farmhand," and more like a petty, sadistically deranged cosmic bully. There was no apparent utility in most of this; it was merely revenge.

But like you say, we're way too tiny and limited to understand the big picture of hyperspace, so what do I know?

Fascinating. I think there may be something to this. If you don't mind me asking, have you encountered The Source personally? If so, did you feel like you were "already a part of it," or that it was trying to assimilate or "absorb" you?

Some quick random thoughts during my lunch hour:

Although it’s a good read, and although I haven’t read it all yet, I’m troubled by the message of this thread. Maybe my take on all of this is a bit too harsh, but…

It’s a bit ironic that the OP suggests we beware and not trust entities one encounters during a DMT experience when the experience is positive, yet implicitly indicates that we should unquestioningly trust seemingly malicious entities when the experience is challenging. Why trust apparently malicious entities and distrust seemingly beneficent ones?

A DMT experience is what it is. It’s our interpretations of the experience that can become a problem.

Regarding evil:

When a surgeon amputates someone’s leg to stop the spread of bone cancer, we say the surgeon is doing a good thing. When a torturer amputates the same leg of the same someone (and unknowingly stops the spread of an undiagnosed bone cancer), we say the torturer is doing an evil thing.

The exact same action with the exact same physical results is interpreted as good in one case and evil in another. Isn’t it clear that the physical act itself is neither good nor evil? It’s the intentions and interpretations of those involved in the act that lead us to label it as good or evil.

Finally,

Some of us construct very elaborate and detailed interpretations of the DMT experiences we have. Yet we forget that our interpretation is a fabrication – it’s something created in an effort to explain the unexplainable. And it seems that the more intricate the fabrication becomes, the more attached to it we become.

When it comes to interpreting DMT experiences (and most experiences in everyday life), we have a choice. Some people choose to see the glass as half empty, others see it as half full.

Hi gibran2, I'm glad you brought this up, and this is touching on some philosophical concepts that I am readily willing to admit my lack of authority on. You make some good points, but I think there may be some misunderstanding here.

Do you truly get the impression that I say we should trust some entities and not others? If anything, my message is to trust nothing. Or is your stance more along the lines of not taking anything at face value, even if it appears, from a certain point of view, to be monstrously evil? In that case, I understand where you're coming from, and more or less agree with your perspective on the concept of "evil."

However, are you extrapolating this idea to the assertion that there are no external factors involved in these experiences, and that the net effect of these experiences is nothing more than what we put into them and what we take away from them? Should we react to the actions of a medical professional in the same manner as we do a sadistic torturer on the basis that they may accomplish the same thing? Throughout the majority of my journey, my attitude was occasionally frightened and overwhelmed, but consistently optimistic. Yet what I received from these experiences was only superficially benevolent, and it is only with the benefit of hindsight that I can see all the harm that they did to me despite my positive and blissfully ignorant outlook.

On the subject of evil, I absolutely agree that from a sufficiently higher perspective, no action is inherently good or bad. But do we, as the tiny, limited organisms that we are, live in such a perspective? Regardless of the idea that individuality is an illusion, we as individuals have survival instinct and selfish interests for good reason, because everything else in the universe more or less operates on the same principles. My view is that there are things out there with similarly selfish interests that have the potential to do us serious harm, regardless of how we choose to interpret them, and that it is in our best interests to not fall prey to them.

Finally, I hate to trot this out, but you weren't there. The darker things I've written about barely scratch the surface of what I've been through. If you have been through some challenging experiences that you were able to get through by your own willpower and detached perspective, that's great, and I'm genuinely glad that no lasting harm has come to you because of it. But I don't think you've seen the things I've seen, and been to the unimaginably horrifying planes of torment that I've lived in for a subjective eternity (mutliple, in fact), and everything else that I've suffered at the hands of forces that I'm quite confident are far beyond the scope of mere interpretation.

Please don't take this as confrontational, and I'm interested in your perspective on all of this since I certainly don't have all the answers and am still trying to make sense of everything that has happened to me.

I wonder..... The Mantis. You mention you are told that these guys are world eaters. I've spoken with one of the mantis beings before, and had a very long conversation with him. He offered his perspective about the earth and our presence here. In very short summary, he claimed that we are part of a protective system designed by the earth as part of her subjective consciousness. Of course there's a lot more to it, but that is one of the many human functions. He also mentioned that the system has become quite derailed and destructive - and that we would need to make many adjustments in our lives if we would like to stay here.

You've been told the mantis are the bad guys. What if the mantis species do have humanity's best interest in mind, but the beings you've encountered have twisted the story due to some long lasting feud?

Yes – I wasn’t there. That’s why I said my response might be a bit too harsh.
I’ve had my share of difficult or challenging experiences, but I’ve never had an extended encounter with evil entities. If I did, I’m sure my views would be different.

So why are some of us subjected to evil entities and others not?

Maybe some of us take the time - years if necessary - to digest all the mindblowing hyper-information and apply the lessons learnt 'up there' in life 'down here' for a while, until ready for the next level. I'm still not ready for the next level after years.

My humble advive is: get grounded, digest all this, help your neighbours, animals, plants and the planet


Thanks for the the great writeup NGC, don't forget to locally back up all that work!

I really wish I had an answer to that.

Maybe it's for the same reason that some dogs are treated as beloved pets, and some are tortured for amusement or used as food by the very same species. In other words, no reason at all. Of all the incredible properties of the universe that I've caught a glimpse of, fairness has never been one of them. Maybe I was just collateral damage, blundering my way into the wrong place at the wrong time. Maybe when I first poked my head out into the great beyond, I just happened to wander into the presence of group of sadistic butchers instead of loving caretakers. Or maybe I invited it upon myself as a result of my curiosity in things that I never should have dabbled with (or, more likely, some combination of the above).

On the other hand, they have their own version of the story. I briefly mention this in my encounter with the first of the "cosmic horrors," and they've elaborated quite a bit upon this since then. Long story short, they claim that I'm part of a reincarnated lineage that's been damned long before this iteration of myself came into existence, and will continue to be damned long after it's gone, perhaps indefinitely. However, given that A), nothing they say is trustworthy, B) I have no evidence to support any of this, and C) this is basically the worst possible scenario, I tend to not believe this story.

I don't consider myself an authority on the subject, and much of the information I have received I would consider tainted knowledge, considering its source.

But I'll give it a shot. First of all, there is no single unified group of Mantids, there are many "subspecies" and factions with widely varying goals and means of accomplishing them, some even in direct competition with each other. The World Eaters, for example, and a number of other groups, I believe may have been subjugated by something much greater. I don't believe that all of the Mantids are hostile to us, and like you, I think I may have even encountered some of the friendly ones. I would be very hesitant to believe that they selflessly want to help us out of nothing but loving compassion, but at the very least I'm willing to accept that they're not hostile and take a keen interest in what happens here.

As with anything of this nature, though, take all of this with a huge grain of salt.

first off, thanks for taking the time and trouble to write all that down. it was very interesting. having only tried the spice once and gotten a sense of foreboding from it, as if i was being asked to sacrifice something unknown to gain something unimaginable, it has added to my fears of breaking through, but im ok with that.

I've no idea whether 'hyperspace' is a trip through real external space or a more complex than presumed internal space, and i dont think there is any way of knowing for sure (although one may feel certain when in the presence of it), but IF it were to be the latter, that would fit interestingly with some of the features of your story. you described your available real world ‘guides’ as happy clapping psychonauts that must have attracted you at some point until you saw through their ideology as unquestioning dogma and this seems to mirror your experience with the happy clapping world hippy religion you felt the entities were enlisting you in.

i think a previous poster said it best when pointing out your experience seemed to lack balance. your initial experience with hyperspace was amongst the most ‘positive’ i have read, granting you with abilities, positivity, etc etc, and this was balanced out ultimately with the most ‘negative’ experience i have read! i cant help but wonder if you have had similar ups and downs in your life before?

Just want to quickly chime in here. I've had some very similar experiences to yours doing DMT, astral projection, and lucid dreaming. There's so many things that stand out to me that we share in experience, however you've experienced things in far, far more detail than me. First of all, I got the spiel from these entities too that, "I am you. You are me. We are one." That was one of their favorite things to say. Also, these entities were quite nice to me for a time offering me help to improve my life in all sorts of manners. Getting closer with my family, quitting hard drugs, things like this, but after time they just turned on me without any real warning and I had gotten so adept at astral projection that I couldn't stop doing it at night even when I didn't try. I had some very scary experiences at night sleeping, and I know it's like what can they really do, how can they really hurt you, but it's a mindf*ck with some of the sh*t they do. Singing fully produced and orchestrated songs to me, chanting evil sounding incantations over me, and I've seen the music videos too! As well I've had the indoctrination type experience where I prayed with some initiates I guess I would call them, and then after I heard an ominous female voice inform me that I had "at last entered the inner circle." Everything started with the guide too the first few times I astral projected. He would present himself in all types of forms, but always there in the beginning to lead the way for me or help to pull me completely from my body as I would often get stuck.

I just wanted to let you know that you are definitely not alone in what you've experienced, but just remember they operate on fear. I'm not sure they have much more than that. The more you elevate them the more powerful they become. Don't give them the upper hand. On a side note, I know it can be very difficult to have full lucid control while dreaming, which can certainly be a problem when entities are harassing you or even tormenting you.

Oh and yea, I swear I've seen the high priestess before. The women I saw looked like in their 40s, quite attractive, and wearing a headdress. Not so much attractive in a beautiful type way, but I guess if I can say a very handsome woman?

And yes! One more thing, I've seen the theatre troupe, or even somewhat of a dancing troupe more than once as well. They are just like you describe. Usually more fantasy type figures and always putting on quite the show. It's quite the feeling to be honest when you watch them. Lots of energy in the air as it were. They usually appear near or at the beginning of my astral projection experiences almost like saying the "show" has begun. By the way, have you ever seen the nightclub singer? Always a woman, who sometimes morphs/shifts between different figures.

Anyways, I'm more than fascinated by your account and appreciate the time you took to write all this up. If you would ever like to chat in more detail about any of this feel free to PM me here.

Ahaha....you made the whole HS assembly look like Mara's host....which may/or may not be a good/not so good approach when (the Nafs is) sifting for truth.

We have had (our own) lenghty debates in regard to (our lmited understanding of) our native deen, the seal (of musk), mahamudra, dzogchen, tantra, the lankavatara, the maharatnakuta sutra, zend avesta ....etc, qalandari poetry geet as well as our own version(s) of a madness syncretism (we call it kushari.exe) and we have had both Dūraoša (is what we call our guide) and the host turn punitive against us out of no-where, at random/at other times they flattered us or worse...it's always good to double check .... the mind can be a real b*tch... but where do we settle from here? That question remains, still.....(for intezam)...In the meanwhile we stick to the odd kushari.exe (... not deleting it from our hindrances and obstacles registry)....

edit: ..part of intezam mindset wants to cheer your post, another part wants to scold it, because you may be right, however if that is the case, it could potentialy render some of our experience/happy reunions for naught...anyway, the tendency is on the cheering .... for being on guard

^^^Good pointers, as usual.

In Sanskrit, there is the apt description Niranjana (untouched, spotless - and untouchable). It is like balancing on a razor's edge to stay there. A step aside and heaven, or hell, can break loose.

Yeah, we heard the aghoris near Ravindrapuri say this a lot: *Alakh Niranjan!! Alakh Niranjan!! Alakh Niranjan!! .... it popped up in intezam mindset when we read the OP's post. We didn't say it earlier (it didn't seem appropriate then, or even now...since we are such a muxxlim doggg..), yet it was there (briefly) but now that zhoro already mentioned it........

* Alakh = sightless + Niranjan = spotless = Zikr Allah