That is quite some fallacy that you are showing here.

Going this route we should also milk you for your DMT then? I mean, why else was it placed in you?


Kind regards,

The Traveler

you can really milk them that often CaptainFuture, without loosing potency or irritating the toads? I always heard no more than like 2 times a year..interesting.

heard some of your interviews...interesting stuff.

From the people I have spoken to who have done this, they say don't do it unless you have someone show you how to do it who has done it before, as you will almost certainly hurt the animal otherwise.

..just my 2 cents

You grab hold of their little Toad titties and squeeze out the milk. Pour over cereal and enjoy. ;-)

poor toads

That is exactly the kind of answer I was expecting here :-)

And yes, they can be milked every 4-6 weeks and are ok with it.

Having seen what Love their magic deliver on our weekends, I am absolutely sure it's the right thing.

And they are far away from poor, but that again is an answer I was expecting from some people here.
On the Nexus is a very deep fear to question the "DMT community's beliefs".

If more people would have a share of their wisdom, the world would be a better place.

Thank you those who have their hearts open here and rather go for wisdom than knowledge.
Still love all of you guys.

Have a lovely weekend,
With Love

well as long as your having a good time thats all that matters

Now hold on a minute...both sides can be calm and look at this, I think.

The question that was raised regarding the safety of these animals is entirely valid and is something I would hope people are not callous towards.

Additionally, the experience of working with these toads is not easily substituted with reading about them or thinking that we may know whether or not this is harmful.

That said, the questioning of whether or not this can be done in a safe, productive, and respectful manner is legitimate and deserves, imo, a better response than "well god put them here so it's ok."

Not only does that response sidestep the question, it fails to engage with the bounty of experiential knowledge that you have acquired from working with these animals. So you not only do the question a disservice by giving such a flippant answer, you also do a disservice to your own experiences and knowledge and to the broader community by not sharing what in your experiences leads you to the conclusions you have arrived at.

If there is a dogma at the Nexus, I'd like to believe it is one of productive communication and healthy skepticism, all in the name of collaboration. Can we take a step back, consider that, and then approach the questions put forth again?

Thanks

I find this thread quote fascinating and most illuminating! How does the 5-MeO-DMT peak experience differ from those of psilocybin and NN-DMT? It is said to be less visual in effect. I've no experience with this entheogen, so please do continue to share and elucidate.

I found in life that it's all about experience.
So I got the Toads in first place, since I wanted to care for them, have them around.
And not by any means, that's why I wouldn't want to have wild caught Toads. The ones I care for are captive breed.

Then I milked them and many forces where at play. I didn't want to hurt them, but wanted to try it.
So I found from experience that it can be done without hurting them.

It's like with the Mushrooms. It's the Love you give is the Love you receive. My Toads live a healthy and happy life. And the milking is being done in a safe and careful way, not hurting them or overly stressing them.

And then I experienced their Magic myself and was so deeply touched, that I had to share that. That's why I started to offer it others. The same feeling, the same urge to share arose from my mushroom experiences as well, that's why I started to share them, too.

What I've seen what both do on our weekends is so shifting, opening to our true nature, that I feel deeply it's the right thing to do.

And that all comes from experience, not thinking and taking positions.

The use of sacraments can open our hearts very deeply to our true nature.
But not necessarily for everyone.
And if the path of the sacraments is taken, it also depends on the right dose, the right time in the incarnation and the will of the individual to open to true Love.

And it can also lead to positions, since the will to be enlightened is a deep search of the egoic mind.
In the entheogenic community are a lot of mind generated beliefs and positions present. Just like everywhere else. But it's nothing but a role to play.
What my experiences showed me is that all these roles and positions are just clouds in the endless, limitless sky we all are.

I know the "Toad topic" and also the "5MeO Topic" is something that's always generating a strong fear and refusal.
This sacrament goes way beyond the other ones can take you, even in small dosages. It's all about pure Love, pure source, pure godness within.
That's why the ego fears it, that's why there is so much judgement upon it.

The Toad deliver this Love pure. There is no preparation needed to experience it. Just like the shrooms. And that's what makes it so different than anything else.

Life is experience. We all learn from experience, we all are experience life is having to experience itself.

So let's enjoy the ride, whatever comes along.

Love. Namaste.

Can you please expand on how exactly you do the milking? Thanks

I gently hold the Toad, kiss them and thank them for being with me and their precious gift they're giving me.
I make sure they have their feet placed safely on my hand, so they feel secure. That way they are not defensive or try to break out. They are also not peeing which is a sign for fear these Toads usually show.

Then I gently press their glands and the milk shoots out of it easily onto the surface of a large glass plate.
This procedure is done with all glands. The two main behind the ears, the ones on their arms and legs.
I thank them again and drop a little solution with a few droplets Pemafix and Melafix in water on the glands, to desinfect the glands out of security reasons.
They are then let go again into their large vivarium. This is done every two months before the Psilohuasca weekends.
And they don't show irritation or fear afterwards.
After all Toads are milked I then feed them, to show again my gratitude for their offering.

The milk dries fast and the next morning is scraped off the glass surface, then a bit cut into smaller pieces. It's not further processed, used as is for the participants on our weekends. Just burned smoked in a small glass water pipe.

Have a look on Psilohuasca.com for Toad testimonials, some people shared their experience with their magic there.

Everyone having had tge experience flows over with Love and gratitude for being in form and having this profound experience called human being.
Hugs and kisses with me,Jeroen and the other fellow travellers are common.

I have experienced synthetic 5MeO DMT and can say from my experience that the Toad feels more gentle and organic. Chemically other Tryptamines are present in the Toad secretion, so maybe they give this different experience.
The secretion of my Toads is very potent, I guess a full dose,contains at least15mgs of 5MeO DMT.
This full dose is 60mgs of fresh secretion, covered with the leftover resin of pipes from previous ceremonies.
Even if a pipe is smoked till no vapor is coming from it anymore, there is always a leftover cole resin in the bowl, which we found still contains some active molecule.

We also found that adding a bit of DMT crystals adds in calming down in the beginning of the experience. You can clearly see when after a minute the 5meO takes over, since people start to breath more deeply and always open up their arms and hands. Many also start to wave their hands in symetric movements in the air.

Thank you

What kind of dosage is used from that ´venom´? Do you always consume it smoked/vaporized? Can you please describe a bit more your ritual of using it?

By the way, I just recently analysed a sample of Bufo alvarius `venom` given to us by Octavio Rettig and it had a surprisingly clean 5-MeO-DMT profile, with a few small/trace peaks I havent been able to identify yet.

Be well

Dear, thanks for your words <3

I was editing my last post when you already answered, so some of your questions are answered there.

And though I never tried, any other way but smoking will lead to poisoning from the bufotoxins I guess.

Octavio and I are in contact and he maybe will visit me end of the month, since he's in the NL atm.

Again I have to say it's all about experience, so having had the experience of caring for them, being with them, milking them and smoking their gift, I shared what I found.

And I say not having done this all, every judgement, position or meaning is just theoretical.

Be Love everyone, whatever you do, always remember Love.

<3

Great Posts CaptainFuture! I have some bufo toads myself and they are very happy little creatures. I breed mice to feed them and they love chasing crickets around. Your explanation is so wonderful and careful for the toads comfort. Would love to see more photos of their habitat up you made.

I recently had sold three of mine to a fellow traveler and he is looking into breeding them. So exciting!

Interesting CaptainFuture, thanks for sharing your experience with us.

You know Bufo or Incilius Alvarius captivity is a hot topic here, but I don't think the uses of this molecule is here, as many members have or still do use it.

I never bred them yet, but in my opinion if you can provide a large and comfortable and healthy vivarium place, it is not more problematic than rising snakes or lizards from home.


Now I have had experience with 5 MeO-DMT on a few occasion, synthetic, and recently partook in one ceremonial vaping session of the venom harvested in Sonoran desert.

It was the most powerful 5 MeO experience for me so far, and having access to the organic venom, I wanted to do straight a full release dose, so I think about 100 mg of dried secretion ( from what the MC said ( I use Master of Ceremony for such ceremonies too, lack of a better name )).

The dose was only eyeballed and looked a bit like a dried philosopher stone, but more orange / amber in color.
I would say the experience was not particularly easy, but I felt also very well straight after, and the fellowing days and weeks...

So am particularly interested in this molecule now as well.
I love their look too. Actually I had experience with kambo venom prior too and I feel both venom have this good after effects that last weeks...
Kambo - phyllomedusa bicolor frogs are sometimes kept in vivarium ( Giant monkey leaf frog ), but from what I gathered the venom isn't produce or hasn't have the same quality when the frogs are captive. Never heard of this abotu bufo alvarius, but if you have terrarium specialist friends, that would know about phyllomedusa in captivity, I would like to hear more about that.

The best thing to do for these magic amphibians would be to protect their environment. Amazon forest for one, sonoran desert for the other one.

Leave the critters alone.

DMT has taught us nothing if not to respect nature.
Holding these animals in captivity and milking them is not respectful.
By what right are you allowed to do this?

..in California it's an endangered species, in New Mexico it's threatened..
and perhaps they could kind of do with their defence venom while in the wild..

an endangered animal is exploited, while for over 20 years strains of 5meo-DMT Phalaris have been known and cloned..

i think what the op is encouraging is offensive, and the op's friend 'Dr O.' equally so for the exploitation of disappearing animals, for personal gain, creating international markets when easily grown plant sources could have been developed..

i'm just disgusted..
.

it is in the IUCN 2013 Red List of Threatened Species
!