Part of the shamanistic cosmology/paradigm is the experience of different "spirits" connected with each psychoactive plant and fungus.
In amazonian shamanism this is sometimes known as "la madre de la planta" (the mother of the plant).
For example, for many people Ayahuasca manifest as a female spirit.
Tabacco on the other hand is seen by many as a spirit that is a black muscular man with a white hat. This is very well documented in shamanic literature.

I have a special interest in Syrian Rue, Peganum Harmala, as it is now understood to be the psychoactive "Haoma" used in the Zoroastrian religion for hundreds, if not thousands of years.
The Greeks also were in the know of the psychoactive properties of Syrian Rue.

What has been your felt or seen experience with the spirit of the Syrian Rue?

I've certainly gotten vibes off of harmal-heavy fomosahuasca where the spirit of syrian rue was addressing me. I can't say it's had a consistent image or face that comes out when it presents itself in your body, once it appeared to me as an old crone in the desert and another time as a shamanic plant ally complete with visions of the plant.

It has always seemed very entertaining of humans, willing to tell stories, almost garrulous as Gracie and Zarkov described. For me it was very willing to answer questions and share visions, more genie-like than the elfin mushroom spirit.

Rue is a third eye activator. It opens the channel to the internal psychedelic dimension. You don't actually need anything with it to experience mindblowing psychedelia on the same level as flood dose DMT. If you have free days, I recommend taking some time to dose every day a nice amount - 5g-7g, giving some time between doses to let the body reset back to normal from activation. Do meditation with a focus on embryonic breathing/dan tian breathing and microcosmic orbit, go look these things up.


They are the cornerstone of true meditation, the realms of psychedelia you hear about but can't seem to touch in meditation - that's where the real meditation is at. The qigong masters say that true meditation occurs when you breathe into the dan tian. When you're waking up from sleep, a single dan tian breath will wash away all of the sleepiness and you will be wide awake in a matter of 2s, feeling fully rested. That's how powerful a dan tian breath is. In fact you should be dan tian breathing all the time, when you do this you will feel the microcosmic orbit automatically circulate... it feels like constantly having sex. With dan tian breathing comes heel breathing - breathing from your heels. In fact, rue connects you to the true power of the breath and there is no better demonstration than heel breathing. Heel breathing is when you let the breath fall to your heels then rise to your head and back.


The breath, rather than going up and down the torso, traverses the entire body. This is the natural way to breath, the correct way to breathe, the true way to breathe, and this is how you would breathe if you spent time in deep communion with nature, if you lived truly primally and were properly connected and earthed. This is how you would breathe if you released all the crud, the tensions, the tightness of daily ratrace living. Living the ratrace tightens up your muscles and hip flexors and other things to the point where the dan tian is choked off and not receiving any useful amount of air. So we are literally depriving ourselves of our most essential asset, as bizarre as it seems. If everyone breathed from the heels, everyone would be happy because with heel breathing comes total release from stress and tension.


Rue is a teacher plant, as you may well be aware. It connects to the level of deep intuition, of deep subtlety. It activates qi flow, it activates fluid motion. It is a way to experience and explore the 4th dimension - the dimension of time. How it works is that Rue blasts you into what I call 'tracer-space'. You know when Neo is dodging bullets in the Matrix? That's tracer-space in action and it feels every bit like what you see in the film. Essentially, the 4th dimension passes through us so fast normally. Research has shown we experience a time interval of around 15 seconds at once. On Rue when you enter tracer space, this becomes something like a minute or two. This difference is infinite in impact. I remember watching the cars go by, tracing their worldlines. I could see where they were 30 seconds ago and the entire trail they left. It shows that all we do is there, frozen in time forever and ever.

Rue is versatile, it's the most versatile psychedelic I know - you can sit down on it, you can move on it, you can do near enough what you like on it. I made a thread documenting some of my madness on Rue here. If awake, you get one kind of experience on Rue - that type is most suited to dance or fluid movement, or music. If you are on the cusp of sleeping or in deep meditation, then rue becomes visionary. I guess it works with the pineal gland's endogenous psychedelic secretions to generate the visions. They are more like self-manifested visuals, the Rue activates the capability to have the visions but what actually generates them so you can see them is your own effort to sink into the deep theta state required to activate the visionary aspects of the human brain, the dreaming mode.


Rue works with the Kundalini in magical and mysterious ways, ways that I have barely scratched the surface on. It activates a kind of telepathic connection to one's surroundings, the feeling of interconnectedness. It does more than that suffice to say. In my experience it is a powerful male teacher with a feminine nurturing aspect; the latter of which is accessed by meditating upon subtlety. That is to say, on the forefront Rue appears to be incredibly harsh. But this harshness is actually the crudeness of your muscular/nervous system. When you develop highly refined fluid motion and your nerves are entrained, the feminine aspect of Rue comes out. In that case, you can feel everything for what it is, a lot more than when sober by all means. Your senses become hyper amplified.


I could go on about this stuff for years but the best thing to do is to set aside 6 weeks and sit down with the brew once every 2-3 days and meditate all day long on it. You will find it reveal itself to you.

The most archetypical experience i had once was on Rue tea and shrooms.
The shrooms where already metabolized and i basked in this glorious afterglow, when i realized that the Rue was still very active and it felt very different than usual shroom afterglow.

I slowly floated out of my body, out of my living room and elevated above the yard.
Then started an experience which can only be described as magic carpet ride over colorful patterned glorious looking temples and mosques. Very authentic archetecture with insane morphing patterns.
It wasn't as visible as usual CEV's it was more dim and seem to happen in my imagination (only that i had no control over the content, but could direct the 'vehicle' in any direction)

It was more like an OBE than anything i experienced before with shrooms, acid or aya.

embrace, thank you for the eloquent reply

How are you preparing your rue?
Boiling the crushed seeds? how long?

Yes, six or seven grams per day sounds like it could create significant physical distress.

Yes you want to dose then let it relax for a few days. The next day and the day after there will be residual trippyness in any case which you can harness. Spending a long time continually MAO-inhibited is perhaps not a good idea at all, but in my experience I had no adverse effects: I stayed well away from caffeine/chocolate/whatever, anything that would cause issues. It definitely has a serious impact on your brain chemistry if you go in this direction. Leaving aside the enzyme inhibition issues, this will jack up your creativity to the next level. I remember sketching out a piece of art to see it come alive and stare right back at me... I was scared when the thing started moving on the paper and I thought "holy crap what have I done". It had a face to it, like it was really looking at me after I had just drawn it.



Also, syrian rue + guitar = heaven. No doubt whatsoever in this case. Dose up 3-4g or maybe 7g and have at it, see what you can belt out on there. It improves everything about guitar playing IME but I'm a complete novice at guitar in any case. Anyhow what I noticed was that I could feel the sound and magnetism of the resonating strings far far deeper than sober. This enhancement puts you into a state of 'guitar yoga', the state where artist and song disappear to leave Music.

This thread has inspired me to start my experiments again. What a noble ally! Rue, a dramatic enhancer of life, something you can dose quite regularly - there are peeps on here who smoke harmalas every single day with 0 bad effects. Smoking harmala is amazing too! It's a bit annoying as the powder can get all in your lungs and you end up coughing up yellow globs (I held the hits in, hehehe). But smoked harmala will take you to space and beyond. You gotta load like 300-500mg on the pipe and take hit after hit after hit until the whole bowl is cleared. Then go lie down for 2 hours and enjoy the fireworks and be prepared to be awestruck beyond all comprehension!


I love Rue, suffice to say. It's a must-have in life, I literally cannot imagine living without this herb in my repository. It is simply too valuable and most people don't understand its true power. This stuff brings forth enlightenment, it illumines the soul.

Embraced, awesome reply brother.

Speaking of the creative effects of Rue, I have also encountered these effects by surprise.
I remember preparing to do a ceremony with the sacred mushroom, which I also begin by taking Rue ... usually a water extraction, however this time I smoke full-spectrum Rue extraction (the easiest smoke in the world ... so easy of the lungs. I didn't do the extraction but bought it online.)

Well I had earlier in the day been thinking about a seminar I have to design. So I had the ceremony room in place, and both medicines ready. Once I smoked the Rue extract, it started to kick in, immediately I was getting awesome creative ideas for the seminar. I basically had to stop the ceremony and go write all the download that was coming :-)

By the way, I have read that one of secrets of Leonardo DaVinci's work (and also Michelangelo)
was using Syrian Rue!!!

Embraced, how do you smoke your harmalas?
Crush the seeds in a coffee grinder, and simply load 300-500mg into the pipe, that's it ?

To Embracetheworld: In your initial post you mention "the brew". If you don't mind could you share
a. Your norman dose range
b. Your brewing technique
c. Do you get the same or different effects using seeds (ingesting capped crushed seeds)) or extracted freebase and/or extract in salt form.
d. Have you ever used products labeled 3x or 25x (supposedly each gram consists of product made from either 3grams or 25 grams of rue seeds. You certainly inspire one to delve more deeply into the power of rue. Thank you.

One of the first things that rue does, even when drank on it's own, is: it pulls a switch in the nasal cavity area, the one, that regulates how much air flows through the right and left nostrils at a time (this normaly changes many times during the day/night). After rue pulls the switch (it comes with a little pleasant sensation) equal amount of air flows through both nostrils for hours on end.
Faqeers/jogis of all schools try to control that functionality by either 'yoga danda' application, nine round 'vase' breathing (there are pressure points in the armpit area) or 'other' (Qi/Shan Dantian) technique.

There is a connection here as to how rue can work miraculously on swollen/inflamed nerve endings, as may be the case with severe toothache or sciatic pain due to intravertebral disc disloaction/potrusion or other severe pain conditions that involves 'over reacting' nerve swellings and blood vessels.

Also try this: ask the rue entity: Dūraoša (pron: Dūr-Ow-Sha), is that you? Just try it......

This morning we had such a bad toothache and rue saved our butt.....later, some birds contacted us in happy anticipation of their fair share (zakat). They said: Dude - you look awfull! What happened?? We said: could be, you know - we went to hell and back. Just rejoice that you don't have no teeth no more. They said: Dude... you have no clue, do you....you never heard of beak delamination? It's a real bummer.....

To respond to a few questions... I smoke freebase full spectrum harmala extract (via Gibran tek on rue) or brew 3g+ of seeds and drink that. Even drink some and smoke some to go deeper and derper. I don't smoke seeds, I have tried and it did not feel viable. I chuck 30g of seeds uncrushed in a pot with say 500ml water and brew at high heat for say 15 mins x 2 then filter via decantation and brew to 200ml. I add milk to the brew sometimes, it helps with the taste. Milk near completely neutralises the taste of mimosa hostilis too!

Rue takes a little while to get acclimatised to. At first 4g might completely floor you for hours, and it's not a pleasant experience by any means! It's very painful when this happens, you're nauseous and shaking like crazy and dizzy and you can't move and you're doomed to lay there for 6 hours straight feeling overwhelmed. I remember when I first started, 3g was good and 4g would do that, let alone 5g+ (heave central).

Over time you develop the ability to ingest it in larger and larger doses and without puking, and the nausea goes away. It becomes another drink, another tea you drink and go about your way. I found there is a ceiling effect to the dose at which point it seems that receptors are saturated and the body has reached a homeostasis and is eliminating it faster than it can be ingested. Personally I found the ceiling to be at around 20g rue tea. For a qigong session I'd dose between 7g to 14g.


I found that the brew generated the best/most immersive experience but also the most overwhelming too. Smoking FB extract generated the smoothest trips, as dose was perfectly micromanaged. I believe that some other active agents may be lost during the full spectrum extraction process. The brew is qualitatively fuller, more complete and more balanced. When I take an equivalent dose of extract, it feels like some of the magic is not quite there that is in the original tea; raw brew induces deeper communion and relaxation.

No experience with x5 or x25 or whatever extracts to be honest. One thing you can do is brew some tea, then gently and gradually boil it down into a caramelised resin. As it gets down to the bottom, turn the heat down and give it your full attention, any lapse will destroy it. You'll collect a strong golden honey substance which hardens and dries upon cooling into a dark brown/green resin. This stuff is AMAZING. It's incredibly sticky so what you do is scrape it and store it on a little plate and stash that somewhere safe. INCREDIBLY pungent and strong aroma, so you want it out the way somewhere. Start off by taking a 50mg piece and work your way up. This stuff carries the full magic of the brew in my experience. It feels more intense than the brew too for some reason.


Rue begins to really get psychedelic around 7g, that's when your vision is swathed with tracers and the energy passing through your body is ferocious. Dosing higher leads to seriously intense entheogenic states, all as long as you're in meditation the whole way through. It's something that needs your undivided attention, all focus on breathing as naturally and fluidly as possible.

As you build a relationship with the plant it goes from being a heavy sedative to a heavy stimulant. At first you'll be mostly too zonked to move but after a few years you get the feel of it and you feel vast stores of energy at your access via the enhanced awareness of prana/breath that the wonderful herb brings forth.

Once you learn how to harness its presence within you, it imbues with a degree of flow and animation, a sense of true vitality and connection to your surroundings. It really activates your perception of biomagnetism, and qi.

is this susceptible to mold ? can this be stored long term ?

also is it possible to make this non sticky like rock or something ?

this would be just so perfect

No mould. I made one little plateful with like 30-100g rue (don't remember exactly) and basically left it over months. Did not lose potency whatsoever, did not mould.


To make it non-sticky I assume you could add something like flour and roll it around until it's no longer as such. That would bulk it up a little too I guess. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to convert this into a dryer resin or whatever, it's all down to your imagination. If you figure something out, please do post back!

I have to put out a note of caution on the extreme dosages mentioned in this thread...

For some of the folks here, 2g of rue on it's own will induce a heavy trip or possibly out of body experiences. Don't just jump straight to 5-7g. Rue is very cheap, so spend some time working your way up and getting a feel for it. It helps to lay down in the dark and close your eyes if you are getting nausea; that gets easier to deal with over time, and the more interesting effects become more readily available to as you work with it.

Also, please don't start smoking between 300-500mg of rue harmalas as embracethevoid mentioned!!! That is an insanely high dose to recommend for people, especially if the smoking technique is efficient and the extract is relatively pure. Start with perhaps around 50mg and go from there. Remember smoking harmalas is more active than just eating it...Therefore I can't imagine why anyone would ever even need 500mg of rue smoked. 0.0 . If you do, fine, whatever. But please don't go around recommending that to other people.



Maybe for you. But many people, perhaps even most, seem to need less than this. Often far less...Some even less than half! So please don't go around giving people the impression that everyone needs this amount of rue to produce this effect. It is far more complicated than that. In fact peoples sensitivity to it can evolve a lot over time. 2g of rue these days is similar to what 4g used to be for me, for example.

Anyways rue is certainly an amazingly underrated psychedelic tool, fully capable of catapulting you into extremely bizarre states on it's own and it lends itself well to frequent use. It has completely re-shaped my psyche to be honest, and I can't even begin to explain some of what has precipitated out of my periods of frequent work with it. Rue (same goes for caapi/harmalas) just takes some time to figure out and the experience evolves a lot over time. Most are scared off by the nausea and dizziness at first but there are ways to ameliorate that.

Im not sure I would say 2g is going to produce that deep harmala state for anyone. Sure some people can really feel 2 grams and I can get some visions with that and go into a coherent state of mind...but still 5-7g of rue just blow that whole experience right out of the water..thats where the whole room starts trailing around and the ataxia increases so much that it is difficult to walk around and the visions become much more real and immersive. Also at those doses there is some fractal imagery going on, for me that somewhat resembles tryptamines. It is like faint lazer beam fractals and grid like things..vomiting...

It is best to start with lower doses though. A high dose of harmalas could really alarm a person not familiar with the lower dose effects.

Vaping 3-500mg sounds crazy however. I said this in the past, but I think you probly have developed a tolerance to harmalas embrace.

I once took Rue every day in the 1-6gr range for at least 2 weeks. Since then i think i have this strong tolerance like embracethevoid. I can drink INSANE amounts of Rue tea without feeling nausea, or drunken, tracers only appear when i go over 7gr. I think i must have drunk something like 12 gr in one go and some more later, only to find myself doing yoga and mudras and dance in my living room.
Never purged with Rue, only when swallowing the brew i feel pukey for a moment.

Those of you who can tolerate Rue in your system and want to work intensively with it, I recommend to do it with a low amount of shrooms.
Keep the ratio something like 10 to 1.
A "normal" dose for me is 5gr Rue with half a gram of shrooms.

Rue is the medicine, you only need a littlebit of light (in this case the shrooms) to make it highly visible and more active.

thanks embrace

will definetly report back if it can be made non-sticky and hard

after the initial brewing and reducing i am planning to use a water bath to heat the rue honey on low heat until it hardens to a rock ,

i am not sure this will work , yet a discovery is to be made