I have done 7 seperate Ayahuasca journeys with this stuff, with harmine + dmt only I do not get real ayahausca visions, I have found that only when I take harmine + tetrahydroharmine + dmt do I get 2 hours of very complex and realistic Ayahuasca visions, they start as spinning geometrics which progress to real snapshots of far away Islands, Carnivals, lots of people and animals, and I have seen very complex animations as well, all in neon colors, fantastic visions when adding the THH.

Very informative experiment. I am weary about having a rue + dmt experience as my first oral dmt experience because I have suspected THH to be important. Due to your report I will defenitely write off the local group I found that works with rue. I want my first experience to include THH. I'll try some caapi extract though so I will move into vine only explorations soon Can't wait to meet her purgative ways!

Edited by Moderator.

Why?

Why write something like that off without trying it?

There is good evidence that a number of groups have used (and use) rue for psychedelic preparations.

Additionally, take a look at this:

Conversion of Harmine->Harmaline->THH by simple boiling (and storage?)

Writing off rue because of that is silly. Why narrow you're approach instead of expanding it?

Rue is vastly misunderstood in my opinion.

For a first time oral dmt experience it doesn't feel right to me. I'm in no way saying that it is useless and should never be used. Of course, if I have a couple of oral dmt experiences under my belt myself I don't see why I can't try it. But for the first time I want to go with what feels the best.

Interesting link. It again hints at THH being a significant component. It suggests that it could be harmine and harmaline being converted to it through the boil, or it could be That THH is more stable. So it is still unsure wether boiling rue for ages would yield THH. Someone should test that though.

I thought synthesis talk was a big no-no here at the homestead???

you're absolutely correct.
tregar, please reword your post. this is a conversion (reduction), not a synthesis.

Said and done, thanks Benzyme. I know this may make some people upset, and it is certaintly not my intention, so please take this with a grain of salt, but I refuse to take a harmine + dmt only journey or a rue + dmt only, once I discovered how huge a difference the THH makes in the brew, I will never go back, the feel and vision quality difference is like night and day, not to mention it is way more euphoric, stimulating, and you have a feeling "like nothing can hurt you" whereas with harmine + dmt only journey I am scared much of the time, and the visuals are mostly (to just me) somewhat artificial and constructed looking, with geometrics describing the inner workings or programming, with the THH, the whole journey takes it to another level entirely (2 hours of Real Ayahuasca visions, like those painted by Pablo Amaringo), I get none of this unless adding the THH, I think THH may target the 5-ht1a receptors in the brain, which make up over 80% of the brain's 5-ht receptors according to Dr. Nichols, after all LSD and mescaline and mushrooms have all been shown to shut down serotonin signalling up to 85% by targeting the 5-ht1a subgroup heavily, dmt "on it's own" has been shown to not target the 5-ht1a receptors at all, but when combined with THH, this all changes. plus the frequency buzz felt thru the body is significantly higher when THH is added, much higer frequency. Not to get all serious and such, just stating my opinion. Good Luck and Have fun making your own THH. In two weeks I will use ammonium chloride and 10% janitorial strength ammonia to get a yield hopefully closer to 80-90% by preventing the precipitation of zinc hydroxide, just like the paper. I'm just gonna laugh and have fun the next two weeks, this past 3 weeks has been alot of research and work to get to my own THH, now will relax a bit. THH is a mild ssri, and according to wikipedia, all ssri's target the 5-ht1a class of receptors heavily. Just like Dr. Shulgin states, we need way more studies on this compound, I belive it is doing much more than ssri activity. It has been postulated to double the half-life of dmt in the brain before it gets "zapped".

Except, unless you analyzed the brews you took that supposedly didn't have THH, you have no way of knowing what was in them.

And given we are talking about ayahuasca, without proper analysis, it's really impossible to rule out self suggestion, imo.

You're certainly entitled to your preferences, but some of the claims you present are somewhat overstated, imo.

Hi SnozzleBerry, the brews I took without THH were simply harmine freebase taken with a freshly prepared brew of Hawaiian psychotria leaf.

Perhaps you would be willing to do blind or double-blind testing with different harmala components and DMT?

Some other people were exploring doing something similar with vaporized DMT.

Absolutely, thanks for the link! By the way, I've been reading your posts for years, and love them, keep
up the good work.

thanks, tregar

Now you've made me blush Thanks

I hope I didn't come across as too critical. It's just that, especially with the history of claims made about THH, I think it's best to make sure we have evidence for any claims we make that go beyond initial suppositions.

I'd love to see what you find if you do some further blinded tests...perhaps it would encourage others to perform similar experiments and we could see just how reliably THH modulates the experience. Thanks for putting time and effort into this!

Thanks! Love you all.

Music sounds very beautiful with all 3 ingredients, the thh & harmine & psychotria brew, but does not sound as good with only harmine and psychotria.

Just a note regarding synthesis, we have no problem discussing them here, as long as the chemicals used aren´t specially watched or dangerous and this isn´t done for commercial purposes.

But yeah, reducing harmaline to get THH is an interesting process. Glad I was able to help that discussion, even though I still haven´t consumed purified THH myself, only did it for test purposes... A bunch of brews I drank for sure had THH though, but god knows in what amounts and ratios with other harmalas. I´d def like to try it on it´s own or in known ratios.

Tregar maybe now you have given me the extra push to revisit those reduction experiments again and possibly bioassay doing blind tests this time. That`d be cool.. Now I just need to clone myself to have more time

Endlessness! so glad to see and hear from you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your excellent posts.

At the risk of beating a dead horse...these are the kinds of statements that may be better to avoid, lest we spread speculation as fact

Edit: I know this is disclaimed as "feels like 100%," so perhaps my earlier statement was not accurate. If I could rephrase, I'd say, I would be hesitant to make claims about being able to detect impurities or percent purity via bioassay.

To confirm your product you could do a melting point check. The mp of thh is 187-190 °C that of harmaline 232-234 °C and that of harmine is 262-264 °C, so the thh is significantly lower.

To do this without the use of a meltemp one can use a test tube, a lighter, a thermometer and a closed capillary tube or a closed pastures pipette.

Then just take a very small amount of your ?thh? and place it in the tip of you capillary tube( just bounce it on the table). Then tape it to your thermometer with the tips lining up.

Then place this in your test tube with some soy oil then just heat the oil very slowly until your almost at 180 then go even slower so you thermometer has time to adjust and watch the ?thh? melt just record this temperature and you have a indication of your product.

see the picture for more clarity, although a thiele tube would be preferred it is not necessary for first indications.


source: http://what-when-how.com...art-2-laboratory-manual/
if you have anymore questions just ask.