My younger sister has basically gone through what I consider to be an existential crisis at a very young age, at 11/12 she was already into dream journals and lucid dreaming..by 13 she was cutting herself extensively and obsessed with nihilism.

She is now 14, thinks about death and the pointlessness of life every single day, and is still cutting. Obviously everyone thinks of this as a form of "depression" but to me it seems she just CAN'T come to terms with why she's here and what the point of it all is.

Obviously, the doctors have failed. She hates therapy, and she is now on Prozac (and has already had an increased dosage per recommendation by the doctor) and I am at a loss.

Please, nexians, if you have ANY advice or experience with this we are listening to everything and anything.

I have obviously thought about all options..and am open to all of yours as well..

Thank you.

Dont mean to be rude . Want to help .

How did an 11 old child get into dream journals and lucid dreaming ?

To solve her problems its important to find out the circumstances of where they came from

If the doctor/s she has now arent helping try to find others . AND try to change the set and setting that she learnt to be like that in .

I wish her and you well .

Interest? I did it too at that age.
Depression is pretty common during puberty and i believe in many cases it has to do with either a)Trauma or b) Failing to develop a strong self-identity.

Without knowing what it is, it is hard to make suggestions.

Hope she'll be better soon!

It sounds like the girl could be more intelligent than the average ? And that the girl is a loner ?

Behavior is a responce to the things that happen to a person and how they deal with it . Everyone needs a special type and amount of care , love and education . Obviously she isnt getting what she neeeds . Thats NOT an acusation at anyone ...... most parents are not qualifyed doctors ........ and as was said even her doctors cant help so far .

See if you can't get her involved with some kind of community-based, creative activity. I was cripplingly depressed in high school and theatre definitely kept me alive during the worst years. Being part of the ensemble, with a real job to do and work I could appreciate was a life-saver.

Art, theatre, dance, music, all those things can be really helpful.

See if you can't get her also to start thinking about meditation, or some other kind of spiritual practice. If she's not into the whole God-thing, Unitarian Universalists are pretty good about accepting people of all different faiths and philosophies.

I hope everything goes well.

Blessings
~ND

Cutting is an interesting behavior but of course very scary in children.

The last I heard about this kind of ritualized self-cutting is that it is literally an attempt to feel SOMETHING.

I know that this is just a kid and there are absolutely zero quick fixes. And yikes a powerful psychiatric drug for such a young brain/mind, . . .

Kids have to deal with so much. Just watching my six year old nephew it is mind-boggling. He is so damned plugged into the electronic world and demanding of CONSTANT heavy stimulation. Yet not very happy. . . . .

Sometimes I think taking folks in these kinds of situations and just ripping them right out of their mileaus might be the way to go. It is almost never possible given the vicissitudes of everyday life.

If I could just take my six year old nephew right out of his life, pluck him out and take him to the forest or the desert or any nice area, even if it's just a tour of National Parks within a 2-day drive, if I could do that but for more than a weekend, for like six to eight weeks at a time, I honestly beleive I might be able to change him from the fine and upstanding example of our wonderful culture that he appears to be turning into, .

Some sort of mileau change maybe combined with a more fundamental "WAKE UP!" experience . . . . for some reason rock climbing comes to mind. You don't need to BASE jump off a cliff or building, but you do need to tear yourself away from your devices, your facebook, your "friends," your TV, your PS3.


Another thing that comes to mind, maybe for the young teenage set, if one can get them to comply, is volunteer work. Volunteer to work in a soup kitchen, the County hospital, an animal shelter. Sadly, many communities will not accept these types of volunteers (even with parental permission) until age of consent, which in USA is 18.

If somehow she could get invested in concerns over OTHERS rather than SELF, I suspect the depression and self-injury would at least ease off a bit.

It's all speculation. I'm so sorry she is suffering and hope that if not a solution at least some modicum of relief or comfort are found.

Warm Regards,
Pandora

.......and vice versa....

A big, cruel part of my growing up was realizing the meaninglessness in everything. How nothing was special, and before I realized that I just thought everything was special because it was in relation to me. But once LSD destroyed the me that was there, I saw all the garbage for what it was. I got better eventually by realizing this:

There was an expression that claimed once you realize the ultimate absurdity in life and the world, you will throw your head back and laugh heartily. I think you could try to teach her directly that although things may be ultimately meaningless, it's up to her to define what things mean. What does she like to do? Eat? Play? Dance? Have fun with friends? Watch movies?

Although we can always kill ourselves, that's not really a suitable, realistic, or authentic choice for most. It is almost like our duty to recognize the lack of meaning in the world, define our own meaning, then act upon that meaning. Encourage her to find something she truly enjoys and take it up. Live life to its fullest! EXPERIENCE! We are HERE NOW, so absorb it! There's not really any other choice!

Many depressed people I knew took up art either to recover or once they recovered. Feeling such emotions can inspire powerful pieces, and may allow her to get emotions out on paper. You could try taking an art class with her, and then maybe nudging her to try different things in life to figure out what she really wants.

Hope everything goes well.

In my experience the level of existential pain you describe in your sister is beyond "normal" adolescent angst.
Generally that level of despair originates from one of 2 sources:
either there are painful memories of life events that were experienced as traumatic, or there is an inherited, biological tendency toward imbalance in the neurotransmitters and brain circuits that support normal mood.
It would be impossible to offer useful clinical advice in a forum like this based on the limited information, but she pretty clearly needs to be in the hands of a qualified healer.
Unfortunately finding someone who combines technical skill and healing wisdom in a humanly and spiritually accessible package is rare as hens teeth.
i know, because as a 15 year old I was the male equivalent of your sister.
It took me years of burning through therapists, psychiatrist, spiritual guides, yoga instructors, emotional release body work, rebirthing, etc etc to realize that:
1: brain chemistry is real, and for some people doesn't operate correctly. Some people really do need to take antidepressant medication or mood stabilizers, and for some people they can be life savers, even if it is equally true that they are overprescribed and often prescribed for people who would do better with other approaches.
2: trauma is real, and the mental health field as a whole does a pretty lame job of dealing with it. There is no single technique that is broadly effective in trauma recovery. Even the best therapists often are effective only over a range of problems and have blind spots for handling people with experiences that lie outside the envelope of their expectations.
3: spritual transformation is real, and finding a path that restores a deep connection to source can lead to effective solutions if the seeker is completely open to the lesson, even though the answer may not actually support his or her most cherished ideas and beliefs.

Hope that helps. Your sister deserves good care, I hope she can find it.

I should imagine your sister is going through puberty and is becoming a woman. No wonder then that she feels lost. The world is pitted against her and regards her as effectively chattel to be used by men for pleasure. Her value resides in how she looks and she is bombarded with this message everywhere she looks, from MTV through pretty much every billboard she passes when traveling. Guide her towards feminism and acknowledge her frustrations as being justified. Keep an eye out for anorexic and/or bulimic tendencies, they sound likely in your sister's situation. But be mindful of the fact that Im not a psychologist nor an expert in anything of the sort.


Truth be told, I don't think psychologists know a great deal about the causes and cures of self harming behavior. imo, boys tend to lash out when they are frustrated at a world they don't really understand, and girls tend to lash inwards when they are frustrated. It may be something she just has to get through.

Philosophically, the universe is cold and amoral. We find our own meaning within it. It is not served up to us on a plate. Meaning is a mind-dependent phenomenon it is not something that cab exist outside of minds. Purposeless and meaningless it might be, but the world is also full of feeling, love and beauty.


This forum is not really the right place to seek advice about serious psychological conditions involving self harm. This forum concerns psychedelic drugs, how to take them and how to extract them.

Best of luck to you and your sister.

The way you desccribe it, it sounds more like BPD. What about her (your) parents? Are they very religious? Restless? Something else? Completely normal? Sometimes (sexual/religious/other) abuse can lead to borderline personality disorder. Do you know about 5-htp? Also keep away from smart meters (or shield them), sleeping with lights turned off may help. Get her off flouride salt/water/toothpaste and avoid artificial sweeteners or just any food additives that aren't natural.

I really hope she recovers soon, like mistletoe sais we cant really offer any medical advice but it may help if you can focus her mind on something , I guess shes above average intelligence for her age so maybe try getting her interested in phsyics or astrology and start from there..something that will really challenge her that she can enjoy, it may also give her some form of 'world view' that will allow her to make more sense of the world and her place in it. Like pandora said self-harm is often used to feel something, depression as it is worded depresses our emotions and senses.
This sort of state of mind is complex and will probably need a muti-facetted approach to treatment , spiritual , medical and philosophical and of course solid family support aand love.
Dont tar spirituality with the new-age or woowoo label, I know when I was going through a depression some zen parables from 'zen without zen masters helped'.