I've been interested in the techniques used to encapsulate vitamins lately, and I was wondering if this technology could be used to bypass the inhibitory enzymes in the gut and make DMT active without a MAOI.

My understanding is that microencapsulated drugs can survive the transit through the GI tract and make it into the bloodstream in tact.

Has anyone played around with this type of technology ?

are you talking about nanocoating with a surfactant? that sort of bioconjugation is used to transport compounds across the BBB.

It's really just speculation at this point Benzyme, but a surfactant or liposomal coating were the two options I've been considering.

Nano-huasca ?



I'll just add a bit of a footnote here.

I posted this in the advanced chemistry section because this technology could function as Trojan horse of sorts. Although the procedure and the apparatus required to produce to these nano particles is nowhere near as high tech as it sounds and on face value it seems anyone could do it at home. It also has the potential to carry pathogens across the BBB which could result in serious complications.

A good working knowledge of sterile procedure and a suitable environment would be strongly recommended here.

indeed

It's been suggested with other substances which are unmentionable here, to transport them across the BBB and the confounding factor has been suggested to be that the idea of nanocoating substances for recreational use presents a serious danger of potential seizures and strokes as the resulting subtances which are received by the brain are too variable to try to attempt without the proper techniques and understanding. I seem to recall something about the size of the molecule or its ability to be metabolized precisely in the brain being potentially seriously problematic.



Why not just make a suppository? You can do that at home for pennies.

You can mix it with oils and such to prevent it from burning your ass.

I've never heard that before s0rce, ie the issue with seizures and strokes.

Any additional information or links regarding those issues would be very welcome. I'd really like to know if there are case histories of such events resulting from the ingestion of anything administered this way.

People all around the world are making their own liposomal microencapsulated vitamins and I've never heard of any complications resulting from the ingestion of the products they are making at home in their kitchens (diagnosis and reporting of any complications would be almost non existent though, so it certainly could be happening or be a latent issue that we won't know about for years - if ever). Most of the people doing it at home seem to be focusing on vitamin C which is a very powerful anti oxidant which can strip electrons from pathogens and in simplified terms de-activate those pathogens.

Maybe in the case of vit C the end product those people are making at home is rendered safe by the electron stripping capabilities of the vit C which seems to work as a sterilising agent in vitro and (possibly) carries over when the end product is ingested.

I'm currently researching the effects of chlorine dioxide as a sterilising agent for the equipment and the initial aqueous phase of this (theoretical) process. Chlorine dioxide has its own inherent electron stripping qualities, so it will be a balancing act to refine the process to the point where sterilisation is effected without degrading the DMT molecule and rendering it useless.

This is based on a theoretical starting point where DMT is used in its acetate form (water soluble) and possibly PH buffered before the encapsulation process. I imagine a freebase solution suspended in liquid hyrdocarbons would not be ideal to microencapsulate and ingest.

As for the suppository idea, call me old fashioned but I really don't find the idea very appealing.

he Hieronymous,

This is an intriguing idea, although I don't have allot of knowledge about the mechanism behind it I did make Liposomal Vitamin C with the lecithin method. As easy as baking a pie.


Depending on the outcome of this thread, next time try out some dmt-ascorbate

I kinda wonder how doing this at home provides solid evidence of anything.

Maybe the vitamin C makes it to your intestines or maybe the encapsulation is dissolved in the primary gut. Not sure how evidence of crossing the BBB is established.

I'm not sure why the suppository idea is inferior. It accomplishes exactly what you are attempting to do without all the in-depth procedures. Use a bit of coconut oil to smooth out the dissolvation, as DMT fumarate is somewhat caustic. It's not nearly as bad as what some kids are plugging (MDMA).

It's a fine idea but I feel like some of the intricacies are unresolvable.

I would link to tertiary research but I don't recall if quoting other drug fora and linking is permissible. It is in the advanced chemistry section of an admittedly lesser forum, quality-wise, in my somewhat humble opinion.

Forgive me for chiming in if my contribution seems limited. I am not a student of pharmacological medicine but do enjoy discussions along such involved lines very much. I read medical texts and journals for enjoyment.

DMT, if anything, is a significant chemical to choose as your results will be your indication of success. Sort of like this other substance that does not cross the BBB. You know for a fact when it does. But I can't in good conscience even reveal its name, due to the implications.

If the suppository idea is unappealing i understand. I don't practice those forms of administration. Its safety is almost unquestionable and effectiveness also proven. The stigma of shoving your drugs up your ass seems to be most people's sticking point when they are reluctant.

Admittedly I wouldn't want any burning in my root chakra when I take flight any more than I'd want the idea of pathogens potentially entering my brain to be a question when I am in that realm, especially considering the extreme power of the mind's role in creating and curing diseases. I prefer my ingestion methods to be unquestionable.

What do you mean ? you want proof that one can make liposomal vitamin C ? what do you think i'm trying to proof ?



It's not inferior, but in light of this thread its also not relevant. This thread is not about plugging.


@Hieronymous
can you point me the direction for more info on this

sorry...

I got a bit hung up on when benzyme said:



-because, in engaging in these experiments, I would want to know if you are really attempting to deter the degradation of the vitamin in the stomach and promote a more effective absorption in the intestines or introduce the chemical directly to the brain.

One is no big deal but the second one seems to be a risky, and to be honest kinda crazy idea.

I'd want to know what is really going on with the chemicals before I storm the gates of my brain with stuff that usually isn't there.

I'm gonna back out of the thread now. Do your thing. I wouldn't but what difference does that make.

I think people making the vitamins at home are promoting more effective absorption in the intestines, and ben is talking about something else. In the end the outcome will be similar but the difference in risk is substantial.

He sØrce your absolutely right, me to, the thing I did was with a friend whose into all kinds of super food, vitamins, supplements.

What we basically did was mixing dissolved vitamin c and dissolved lecithin then drop it in an ultrasonic cleaning bath for half an hour (i think its normally used for cleaning jewelery)

He told me this was way better than regular vitamin c

Did i notice it? no i just drank some for a cople of days and though i was getting healthy

Sorry for being so slow to get back to this thread.

It seems that some people have a few doubts about this type of technology and that's very understandable, I did too when I first heard about nano-tech for human ingestion.

Chances are many of us have been eating or are eating products using this type of tech as part of our normal diets, it's being used in a wide array of nutritionally "fortified" foods for the lack of a better word. There is a vast array of foods using this tech and most people have no idea.

White bread that is marketed as high in omega 3 is one example that almost always uses a nanotech encapsulation delivery system for the Omega 3 fatty acids.

If you want to find out more about which companies and foods are using nanotech then there is a good resource in the link below.

Nanotech in foods

I'm not trying to argue that the technology is safe or unsafe, people can decide that for themselves.

There were a few questions about how the liposomal drugs work in relation to where absorbtion takes place. It's my understanding that liposomal encapsulated substances can pass through the digestive tract and make it into the bloodstream in tact, then the liposomal coating is broken down by the liver and many drugs are metabolised directly in the liver.

I must admit that my knowledge on the mechanisms involved where substances cross the BBB is still in it's infancy, so I can't really elucidate on that matter in-case I give false information and lead people astray -sorry.

After a bit of research it seems like the addition of ethyl alcohol to the mixture at the rate of 12% final weight when manufacturing the liposomes produces a better quality end product and the alcohol acts as a preservative so the product will keep longer.

Some other formulations use sodium benzoate as a preservative, but I have read that sodium benzoate can be converted to benzene if it comes into contact with ascorbic acid under some circumstances. One of the chemists here would know more about that than myself.

I do have some concerns about pathogens contaminating home made liposomal drugs or vitamins, but if a few basic steps are taken to sterilise equipment and the water used for aqueous solutions those risks should be minimised. The addition of alcohol to the mixture at the time of manufacture should also help to minimise any risks.

The best resource I've found outside of restricted academic publications can be found on the link below. It provides full instructions on how to make liposomal vitamin c at home. It's much more comprehensive than most of the youtube vids, I've seen.

Quality Liposomal Vitamin C