This is my first time posting on any forum - so please be gentle.

First a quick intro. I a 40 year old visual artist interested in consciousness and loves psy trance. Ive taken pretty much everything there is over the last 10 years. And had a full spectrum of experiences. I generally look for something more that the fireworks in psychedelics. I prefer brewing, growing or extracting my own 'goodies', but this is obviously not always possible. I took Ayahuasca for the first time last month, which I guess is what prompted me to get my feet wet here.

So onto the preparation. Followed recommended diet, meditated, no tv/internet and so on for two weeks before and generally lead a healthy life style. I also read loads of reports, books and articles as well as every documentary I could find. Also consulted friends who had taken ayahuasca.

I brewed my own caapi (3x3 method) and added previously extracted DMT (mimosa) freebase. Dose was 160g caapi and 30mg DMT (30 mins after caapi). I also prepared by smudging my room, stating my intentions and playing chilled music. I took it in alone in my flat while my girlfriend was away for the month. Settting was good. Set was not great, been agitated for a few months. I was aiming for a med to low dose.

The experience was totally not what I expected (which I guess it never is). I know its impossible to really know something without experiencing it. But what I expected was something other than a 'typical' drug experience. To be blunt I was expecting 'medicine' (whatever that is).

What I did experience was very much what I would consider a 'typical' psychedelic drug experience (I know there is no such thing). The experience was ±4 hours with a peak of around 45 minutes. While being profound, amazing, terrifying, visual, introspective etc, it was 'just' like lsd/mescaline/psilocybin/dmt could be (I know these cant really be compared) but with its own character. Once that wore off, it felt like the caapi kicked in. This was way more interesting and new to me.

To contextualize - the original plan was to take just the caapi but after two 'misfires' I went for MAOI+DMT combo. My feeling is that the misfires were caused by a 3 day fast. I ate a light veggie meal 3 hours before the combo.

Back to the caapi. While this was profound and new it was still something that I had experienced with other drugs - it just had its characteristics. Granted, the experience/realizations have suck with me in a way that I am still processing. SUPER AMAZING!

But when speaking with fellow psychnaughts a week later, they were offended that I didn't refer to it as a medicine or at least 'better' or 'different' to other drugs. My feeling is that this is because ayahuasca (and DMT) is the current 'trendy' drug. It is being popularized and mythologized in the media and seemingly supports its very own tourism industry. It is being built up to be something unique in a way that other natural or RC's drugs are not. It is as if ayahuasca is seen at the apex of some sort of psychedelic hierarchy.

For instance there is the belief that it should not be taken outside of a traditional setting or ritual and certainly not without a shaman. For me this is saying that is something that other than other psychedelics are not. I don't think this is the case. The others can be equally profound/terrifying/visual/reality bending.

Another aspect of this mythology is the purge. I do think that one can get rid of 'bad stuff' as part of a psychedelic journey and am also fine with using the purge as a metaphor for this process. But what I think is happening is that when one is bent over the toilet purging a huge amount of blood rushes to ones head and immediately increases the effects of the drug in ones system. It is common to hear people saying that after the purge (metaphorical) they began to trip. For me this has a physical basis. I tried it a few times by bending over and forcing the blood to my head. I tripped extra heavily for the next few minutes.

I accept that I am a rookie with regard to ayahuasca. Maybe I even got the dose or balance between the two ingredients was 'wrong'. Maybe I need to 'learn' or 'tune into' the chemical/experience with more experience. I certainly don't mean to offend anoyone. Nor am I totally sold on my own ideas. But what I have written obviously resonates with me. I just feel that in a few years ayahuasca's mystique will have worn off and been replaced by a new "rock star" of our psychedelic community.

I am super interested to hear what other people think? Drug or medicine (or something in between)? Experience of something 'other' or just a chemical process in our bodies affecting our minds?

I'm not expert on pharma or aya, but IIRC 30mg is a very small dose of oral DMT, even with MAO fully inhibited.

Do you not consider LSD/mescaline/psilocybin to be medicines?

Personal Opinion-

It's a drug or a medicine, IMO - Or what ever else the person discussing it feels like calling it. I'm no authority, but I don't mind speculating publicly, from time to time.
I'm fairly new to the aya/pharma scene myself - only About 20 various pharma/aya experiences. It's interesting that you bring up drug vs meds. I recently made the decision that I think I may prefer aya/pharma over a smoked DMT due to the fact that it lasts longer and has a much more graceful onset. I also feel that it is "less drug-like" in the oral form. It also lays out an easier area for me to work through potential issues - and more ease at addressing confrontation.

Me? Personally? Medicine. I turn into a pretend shaman for a few hours, or however long is needed to appease the part of my mind that craves tradition, but I don't worry too much about it if i don't feel like practicing tradition. I have much respect for those who practice the traditional aya ceremonies with a real shaman, but I do not ever feel like I am unwanted by the plant teachers, with or without a shamanic mind frame. I feel like if you are willing to accept the working of the plants, they will be loving to you.

It would be a silly time in reality, IMO, if the true shamans looked down on us for not following their protocols for an aya ceremony to a T. That would be like a Christian criticizing someone learning about Christianity because they don't go to the same church or read from the same bible.... I dunno, I'm sure my views are biased - being that I'm not a shaman, but have no problem adapting some of their practices.

What gives shamans authority to be the "keepers" of the aya tradition? What makes their practices any different than any other tradition started by any other culture? - other than the fact that they have a valid excuse to work with all the compounds that we WISH we could legally use - "religion"

I'm rambling... Medicine. Final answer, with a hint of drug for the folks who want it to be a drug....

Welcome here!

Next time up the DMT dose. I like 100mg and I dissolve it into the caapi brew while its reducing after filtration and drink it at the same time. You might not need as much caapi but if you didn't even purge from 160g of vine then maybe your just a hard head which is fairly common. Vine potency varies too.

It's true there is quite a lot of superstitions surrounding ayahuasca. This is why I once made pancakes with ayahuasca powder as flour, and also one time mixed powdered caapi with a bowl of chili and ate it. Both times I felt the effects, didn't physically purge, or notice any side effects at all.

With that said I will say there is more to this purge than a head rush. If you have never experienced it, you will. Also even if you don't feel much the brew is still doing a lot of things in your body. Just look at how harmalas are anti parasitic and have a bunch of positive health effects. Purging can mean simply getting over something, or seeing something under a different light, or experiencing physical and mental recalibration from the psychedelic effects, or exploding a massive laser beam of vomit containing every negative thought and feeling you've ever had wiping your slate clean leaving you reborn and light as a feather, or maybe you just had to poop.

Is it a medicine or drug? It's both because semantics.


@Acacia - It's not so much that they are keepers, it's just their culture. Just like how rue and acacia are used in some parts of the middle east. I think the only people claiming a one-true-way are the ones hijacking the culture in the first place.

House, thanks for sharing your view on the purge and the shamans.

I suspected similar things about what the purge is. I've only purged physically once- and it was when I took up the reckless abandon approach. It was pretty...uhhhh... it was something - a learning experience. I threw up so hard that I pulled some muscles in my chest and was mildly miserable the next day due to the pain in my chest.

After purging, and feeling pain in my chest, the thought that I was having a bad reaction to the harmalas crossed my mind. I thought I was having a heart attack and that I was going to join one of the Articles: "Dumb fool dies while on psychedelic compounds from the Amazon... " Fortunately not the case, but not exactly the most settling thoughts during one of those experiences. Surprisingly, I didn't freak out. I came to terms that "I did this. If it goes foul, not much else that can be done at this point, but here I am." I think that in the back of my mind, I knew that I was fine, just being a dumbass on that particular occasion.

I broke some of the rules, and quickly learned why some things are best not to mix with aya/pharma, and carelessness can certainly leave you with questions. My brilliant mind decided that mixing 15mg of extracted psilocybin crystals, about 150mg of harmala, and about 50mg of the molecule was a great idea. I had a few glasses of wine earlier that day(also not safe to mix with harmala) so I'm sure that added to the purging of my genius plan.

O well. We live(hopefully) and learn. Nuttiness

Thanks for sharing. Its great to hear an honest point of view. Its great to start with a foundation of honesty escpecially when it somes to something like entheogens. Often times people will perpetuate what they hear about these compounds regardless of their feelings about them. With this kind of honesty you can benefit the most from these compounds.

Firstly IMHO, psychedelics are a tool, granted, this has become sort of a mantra over the years. I have not yet tried Aya/DMT, bit its my understanding that its very similar to psilocybin. In fact many people have said to me that high dose mushrooms very much resemble aya/DMT. So if they are anything alike , sure its medicinal. Unfortunatly there are few ailments that its guaranteed to cure every time. Not in the way Ibuprofin cures a headache. With addressing mental/spiritual/emotional problems there is little scientific info on proper dosage. There is however a wealth of knowledge that appropriate setting and set is important for this type of healing and that's definitely a HUGE start.

For me mushrooms have been the most "medicinal" of all substances Ive ever tried, and with the fewest side effects. In fact the lasting after effects lasted many years and were profound to say the least. I cant say however, that every single mushroom trip helped. In fact my last two were certainly the opposite of therapeutic. My dosage was low (fortunatly) and set was BAD, setting was HORRIBLE. What I was left with was a bad taste in my mouth and I havnt had the desire to use them for a long time now because of it. I cant quite shake that last bad experience. And it wanst even a bad trip in the classic sense. It was just annoying and I just wanted it to be over about an hour into it. It sounds like you really took your time to prepare for it but dosed lower than whats recommended and seemed to have a bad mind set but dosed anyway. Personally I wouldn't give up from one underwhelimg experience. Could you satisfy my curiosity and tell me if it resembled psilocybin to you?

Maybe instead of freebase DMT, try using a chacruna or mimosa brew with your caapi. I find the experience tends to have a bit more depth.

In my experience, using freebase makes it more of a visually stimulating experience. I am sire that these experiences have there own rewards, but again, I find them to be lacking in depth.

This thread is fascinating. It further instills the complexity of this subject. I think it is like most psychoactive substances it can be abused or used medicinally. Some people find the same enlightenment from thoughts alone or from religion or a heart attack maybe. Perception and intent are crucial when exploring this realm. Give two people of similar physical makeup a breakthrough dose of DMT. Both know they are being given a drug, neither have taken drugs before. Subject A. is a simple thinking man. Focuses on daily life and doesn't question much. Subject B. is a intellectual man. Focuses on deep philosophical questions and questions everything. Both would experience profound insight but how would each subject process and utilize the insight? This is the question. If the experience brought enlightenment that led to positive change then its healing and medicine for you. The same could be said for near death experience or similar life altering situations. An epiphany brought on by extraordinary events and thoughts. Tryptamines are a conduit that give us that opportunity.