i am becoming genuinley frustrated with this whole breaking through thing.. at two tokes it didnt happen, so i figured hell lets shoot for three.. three tokes, yes it was insanity, things so crazy i cant even remember them.. but still, no breakthrough... so i thought to myself.. i never hear about anyone doing four tokes, so that must be the ticket for me.. and even THAT didnt do it.. no space, no dome, no elves, nothin... its just like being in the middle of a tornado for 5 minutes.. that, and the whole experience doesnt seem to pack as much punch as it once did.. for instance last night, had a couple friends over and i poured a mountain of spice in my bowl, and damn near finished it ( i estimated it to be close to 80mg) and it just wasnt impressive at all.. maybe it was because there was people over.. or does dmt lose potency? i have it in a vial with a cork top.. maybe my product is inferior .. who knows i just have my fingers crossed that one day it will finally come.. a breakthrough.. the night i did four tokes, i think i might have got the "crysanthymum" type thing.. but it wasnt a floral pattern, it was more like a crucifix shaped thing made out of millions of balls of energy.. it was *kinda* spinning.. but i never went through it.. maybe its a block in my mind? maybe i need to relax and do more preperation before i partake in this stuff...

It took my friend quite a few tries to get it right. I don't know what technique you're using to toke it, but my friend really likes to sandwich the spice between two layers of parsley. He said that it's very important to only [i:f3a863f21b]barely[/i:f3a863f21b] light the top bed of parsley, that gets a nice little hot bed going for the spice to vaporize. If you draw too hard and the flame hits the spice, you're going to get a dud. He's done that a few times and only gets the type of experience you describe. Are you making ABSOLUTELY sure you're not burning the spice?

well see thats what i thought the problem was in the first place.. i was using a glass spoon pipe, and touching the flame to it so it would liquify then toking.. so i tried to vaporize.. i have little glass vials, so i put a good dose in the bottom of one, and bored a hole in the cork of the vial to insert a straw.. everything looked good, it started vaping, i got a few big inhales that felt strong, and it wasnt even as good as smoking it through the pipe.. im doin somethin wrong im sure but ive got like 1/2 gram left lol, TODAY is the day i break through, even if i have to smoke this whole fucking mountain of dmt

Setting is important IMO. My strongest spice trip was only two hits...but that was with translucent crystals. It blew every other psychedelic experience I've ever had, before and after, even with DMT out of the water. Sometimes the stars just line up for a breakthrough. Other times I've taken up to four hits and had extremely mild effects. Much of it was related to the mindset and life events going on at the time. I suggest using the oregano sandwhich method. Check out my post in the "Smoking techniques" thread. If that doesn't work for you, your spice may be the culprit.

i appreciate all the advice yall.. usually my setting is outside, facing about an acre of solid trees.. ive turned what i have left into "rock" .. it seems to have condensed down alot, so maybe ill be able to get even more per lungfull, and it might be better to use the rock in my little vial vaporizer.. ive been starin at this shit all day lol, trying to work myself up to do some more.. but i suspect if i have to force myself to smoke it, it prolly wont be that great of an experience because of my mindset.. if all goes to plan though, ill post

Do you hold down the vapor in your lungs long enough ? Also the vapor must be quite 'dense', if your tongue is on the way of the vapor it should feel a bit numb.

on average i hold the tokes in for 15-20 seconds, the very last one for as long as i can stand it.. my tongue never goes numb or anything, but the vapor seems nice and dense, at first i thought i was getting it too hot cuz it was so thick it looked like smoke.. maybe my spice just isint up to par? im sure it could be one of many things.. just have to start ruling them all out one by one

and also.. i forgot to add... i didnt ammonia wash the final product that could have alot to do with it now that i think about it.. its probably because im getting so much other crap other than dmt per toke..

[quote:68b0f7c05a]its probably because im getting so much other crap other than dmt per toke[/quote:68b0f7c05a] Nope. My friend do not was with ammonia, the crap is just harder on the lungs. However if the smoke is dense as you describe and you do not feel your tongue numb then I guess there is something wrong. Can you post a photo of your friend's device used to smoke ?

well i took a pic and i have it but i guess you have to have it on a url so scratch that.. its a vial, about 2 inches long, thin glass.. it has a cork stopper top which i bored a hole in and inserted the straw and its nice and tight[/img]

well, i just gave it a shot, with two nice fat rocks in the bottom .. naaaaaada.. hmmm... i basically got it all, there was only a very little minute amount of the liquid left.. i watched the smoke swirl thickly in the thing, and my throat definently feels like ive just smoked some but naaaada... its time for the oregano sammich method

Swim had very similar questions once, many MHRB extract batches ago. Can you confirm the extract's shape and colour..? did crystals form..? Yellow extract is different in its effects, and better 'burning' - it makes HUGE clouds of vapour as it 'ignites' easier, for milliseconds. Have you had a chance to compare white to yellow dmt, mr 'Dabear...? Learning how to smoke - the residues should tell something about the quality of spice too. Quality extract re-grows nicely, in 'shards' of small crystals all over the glassware, no...? And putting all questions about bad-spice-from-bad-teks aside, let me just ask; But what is a breakthrough..? some how it seems so hard to predict or 'call' or define. Everyone is so different, and will call it something else - what is wordified into language and the 'cartoons' in our heads is NOT it either ! That's just the languaged-thing we do so well with reality. Words barley point at an ineffable experience, or throw mud on it, to 'reveal' it's form. They barely laminate bits of it ... we can remember... Swim thought she had spice with 5-Me-O-dmt in it - the AllThatIs just appeared so easily ... That white out Bliss seemed to be the trip - it IS the trip so often ! ... Other times bad, oxidized spice, and lye-contaminated spice led to poor trips. To get her confidence up, or confirm that she had not 'ruined' her brain's HT5-receptor count permanently, she made pristine, pure new batches of nn-dmt via Acid-Base separation. This proved that God is even closer than before ... and dmt still scares her, but all is ok. "Breakthrough" or no breakthrough ... it is just a drug, or a 'sacrament' ... risky, and rewarding in it's unique way to each of us. Try eating some with MAOI..?! So I would say don't expect from wordified-models, that your experience or your 'entites' could be like anyone else's. Even though after some tries, you'll understand why some people's words-and mental-cartoons try to get at it, and other words just fail. Swim's were much different than she expected too. The question posed makes me think of lots of similar experiences swim had told me about. I theorized from those stories of hers that we may all be different, molecular-genetically-down to the genes, so that some of us have experiences that lack a 'breakthrough' type event. For example - only 20% of Rick Strassman's patients encountered 'entities' - why is this ? ... that means that 80% of the time you'll likely NOT 'meet' any creatures, angels or anything but yourself. I wonder if this is a genetic trait - to be so predisposed, as to have uber-sensitive HT5-recepors all in your brain (... or whatever makes you genetically able to see entities.) Also don't forget that 2% of the population see's entities without needing dmt... I also theorized about diurnal rhythms in our brain's receptor-numbers, based on swim's extensive tales of trials-and-error with pipe-types, spice quality (lye-contaninated.>!) and settings. Swim made me think that there is a possibility that our brains have breakthroughs because of the number of serotonin ('HT5" receptors present and MAO-activity. If you have a slightly lower number of serotonin receptors made and ready, the moment you inhale 35 mg, it may be that you get a certain type of trip. The MAO activity and HT5-receptor numbers change every hour of the day, as we eat, get tired, sleep, etc... How does this affect the effectivness of 35 mg, perfectly vapourized..? Someone said they eat bacon and beans, lots of them, just before trying dmt. This is to deliberately flood their body's MAO enzymes with tyrosine (in the bacon and beans), so the trip is different ! Imagine the smell ! Smokin' bacon and dmt ! So if you're genetically predisposed ( of the 2% that are broke-open already) maybe it's quite normal to 'slip' through ... into the White Light ?

those are very good points, and they did cross my mind at one point.. i understand theres not a "standard" i guess you'd say breakthrough for everyone.. but from all the trip reports ive read, it seems the same for everyone in theory, but the fine details are always different.. it really seems like a breakthrough isint something you try to hunt down this intently, and maybe its better to just let it come to you when it decides to, rather than trying to press the issue... but one thing i do know is that the first 4 -5 times smoking it, even at half the amount i smoked now, was sooooooo f'ing amazing, and now it just kinda seems like okay, i know what to expect now, and that shock value of such a quick come up is kinda losing its novelty.. maybe its time to take a break from it for a few weeks then try again with a different mindset thank you everyone for your input it really helps!!

Also, maybe you're just not using enough. The first night I xtrktd spice, I was trying to smoke it off foil (I know, I know :roll and couldn't achieve much beyond threshold effects. I tried the oregano sammich once that night and nada either. The next day I dumped a HEAP of spice into the oregano pipe and was blasted to kingdom come. Since then I always use the same amount when loading the pipe- [b:777dcdca89][u:777dcdca89]A SHITLOAD[/b:777dcdca89][/u:777dcdca89] And it works damn well!

hahaha awesome.. thats what i do to.. usually much more than i could ever dream of finishing.. like just a few minutes ago.. i pulled two huge tokes off this thing and came nowhere close to cashing it.. i dunno if its just my mind or what but.. this freebase form.. man.. it seems wayyyyyyy speedier.. where everything before kinda just melddddded and flowed, it seemed way different this time.. better, in a way so maybe im getting closer

I too can relate. I smoke 50mg weighed and get utterly intense kaleidescope visuals and intense sense of thought, but the experience seems very monotone, as in it's just me, the mindfuck, and the room I'm in. There is no feel of an alternate dimension and this to me actually seems more like Salvia. The experience has differed from MHRB source - source though, which makes me think this might have some play in it. Maybe this wrong species of bark that is commonly sold through vendors yields alkaloids that taint the experience? BTW, crystals were formed in shapes much like you'd commonly see of DMT. Spikey, and some flat ones that branch out like trees as shown: http://i203.photobucket....emicalEudaemonia/D2s.jpg http://i203.photobucket....emicalEudaemonia/D4s.jpg But I will definitely try the "smoke a shitload" method tonight before I form strong opinions.

My friend usually smoke his DMT when he is in a very soothing state helped by another chemical... and he always report awesome experiences ! I would suggest you to try DMT with your favorite relaxing substance whatever it is.

you said above you take threeish tokes, holding each in for 15-20 seconds, the last as long as you can.. what could be happening is you take that first toke, within not too long (i don't know how long exactly, but it's not long, could be a minute or less) your body begins to metabolise the dmt and even if you add more and more it doesn't take you 'higher' (further?) the spice sandwhich (between parsley or something else) works a treat, here's what i'd do get a standard hash pipe, put a small layer of leaf on the bottom, put your 50mg or whatever on top and close the sandwhich with a little more leaf prepare yourself, exhale say 90% of your capacity, and breath in consistantly (and constantly) and slowly, if it gets too harsh then pull away but DON'T FUCKING EXHALE (sorry, my friend no matter how much i tell him insists on fucking it up every single time..), yeah don't exhale, give your lungs a 3 second rest if they need them then burn it again and keep going till it's all gone. you've got to be quick because sometimes you know there's more spice there but you can barely see a thing. basically, you want it all in one breath, no exhaling in between, and hold that for 15-20 seconds, see ya later

Have you ever used ibogaine? I have one friend who did an 18 hour iboga trip and from that point on has never been able to jump into the DMT relm. He was an experienced user before hand and now finds the molecule pointless.

[quote:4636f99a74="cilosyb"]Also, maybe you're just not using enough. The first night I xtrktd spice, I was trying to smoke it off foil (I know, I know :roll and couldn't achieve much beyond threshold effects. I tried the oregano sammich once that night and nada either. The next day I dumped a HEAP of spice into the oregano pipe and was blasted to kingdom come. Since then I always use the same amount when loading the pipe- [b:4636f99a74][u:4636f99a74]A SHITLOAD[/b:4636f99a74][/u:4636f99a74] And it works damn well![/quote:4636f99a74] It would probably be helpful if someone would upload a pic of what is an appropriate dose (~60mg) and take a macro shot of it compared to a dime or something. A lot of people likely don't have the ability to weigh out tiny milligram measurements and might be underestimating the dosage.