I've taken 3g doses of syrian rue many times alone and in combination with other substances for potentiation. This has been my standard dose since it is the dose most often cited as being able to provide MAO inhibition.

I always just took this to be true on faith. And it seems that this dose does inhibit MAO for me since it does work to significantly potentiate other substances. But recently I've been reading around and it has cast some doubt on whether or not I think this dose is effective for MAO inhibition.

Most reports that I can find say that 3g is enough to cause significant psychoactive effects. It's not enough to cause visual effects for everyone, but it usually has a sedative, dreamy, stoning type of effect.

For me, 3g is only a threshold dose at best. 5g is enough to cause notable trails, mild sedation, and mild loss of coordination though.

Is this typical or do I have a higher than usual tolerance?

It seems like you do have a higher than normal tolerance to it, which really isn't all that uncommon. Are you brewing the seeds? If so, how?

The interesting psychoactive affects of rue and caapi seem to become much more pronounced the more you work with them, and they tend to not fully manifest until you really relax and lay still in silent darkness (unless you take quite a whopping dose). There also seems to be a sort of long-term reverse tolerance, in my experience.

Most of my friends seem to be less sensitive than me, so I tend to give them bigger doses.

I almost always brew the ground seeds doing a minimum of 3 boils for 1 hour each. This produces effects about the same as consuming the ground up seeds, except that consuming the seeds this way usually produces stomach upset and a general sick feeling for me. So I doubt that my brewing technique is the problem.

I have experienced some of the more interesting effects of syrian rue before. 5g is actually pretty interesting to me, but I've only ever taken this dose while hiking in the woods, so I don't know how it would affect me if I just laid down in the dark.

I've also used 10g doses a few times. This produced strong trails, moderate sedation, some euphoria, drunken coordination, and mild alteration to my thought process. It also caused strong nausea when I was moving. But no real visionary effects.

It is normal to not get nausea from 3g or even 5g doses of syrian rue brew?

The effects you're describing sound consistent with my experience. 3 grams is enough to make DMT orally active, but I usually take 6 grams. I haven't noticed visuals from taking 6 grams of rue on its own, but if I take a few hits off some good sativa it'll start bringing on visionary effects.

I dont get nauseaus from that dose. Once I start getting closer to 10 grams I'll notice more nausea, but I haven't felt the need to take doses like that for awhile now.

Hey Powerful Medicine,

I have the utmost respect for your research methodologies, your precision, the effectiveness of your communication, and thoroughly relate to your interests, both here and on other fora.

Your experiences align with mine completely.

3g mild sedation, insights, a feeling of being thoroughly in touch with myself. Minor body stone, a good head space and MAO inhibition effective enough for DMT. No nausea.

5-7 g and up big differences. Last night I had effects for 8 hours, slept through part of it but was mostly alert and intuitive. Some minor visionary insights. Really noticeable visuals along the lines of trails, shuttering of my open eye perception (a flickering that seemed to stall and then advance flames forward). At these more substantial doses noticeable loss of coordination and an overall feeling of electric charging of the nervous system which was not unpleasant but not necessarily overall euphoria. If I had cannabis on hand I would have been significantly psychedelically altered even moreso.

I'd suggest experimenting with Rue alone and forego DMT until you feel like you have an interesting space created with Rue, then titrate oral DMT doses in multiple sessions with the harmala headspace definitive and familiar. I look back and wish I had been more thorough with this approach style, as some fumbling with my Rue familiarity sort of shortchanged what my desired outcome would be. But overall I found your rue experiences relatable and familiar, if maybe somewhat light, but I get really intense results from Rue and have the utmost respect for this plant teacher/ally.

Your boils sound very thorough but I wonder about the possible degradation of harmala with such long boils. I know research results from others might support a lack of degradation with boiling but my empirical evidence from my own administration leads me to believe that grinding the seeds pretty thoroughly and boiling twice with only decanting to give me great results. In fact I usually just work with the first decanting and save the second for the next time I boil some rue, reduce that and it's really only due to not wanting to waste my materials that I boil more than once.

I even wonder about cooling my boils. I wonder about precipitation at those temps irritating my stomach, because if I drink a few cups or more of it warm I never get nausea. For example last night, I drank the results of the first boil warm, using 8 grams of seeds, and was very sufficiently altered/elevated, with a great headspace. NO nausea at all! I consumed a peanut butter sandwich just after guzzling this amount of liquid. Noted to myself that nearly no seed residues were contained in the decant, as the nausea overall is my least favorite part of this kind of oral administration of rue.

One really significant effect was looking in the mirror. The glass appeared to have 1-3 spots in the middle of a sort of water drop hitting the glass effect, with a nearly instant rippling or trails on the border of the mirror just moments later. And it was duplicable, and I could play with trails and this visual effect. However not being the most profound of results, introducing DMT at this level would be phenomenal if some was on hand. Darn you hindsights, thank you hindsights. I'll split it with me 50/50. Heh.

The feeling of knowing "answers" rapidly to somewhat complex human questions/interactions, a kind of cognitive conductivity or higher frequency of mind being attained, general intuition and self-esteem/appreciation being my more desirable results in this space are what seems really remarkable to me about this plant medicine.

Love love love you Syrian Rue

Respect Powerful Medicine, happy trails and see ya around the site

Peace and love ~Ø~

terence mckenna used to talk about how harmalas are not psychoactive (a misuse of the term - i know) on their own....

this has been my experience as well.

i can take a 5g dose and feel sober, but if i eat a tryptamine at that point, i will trip my face off.

granted, i seem to be in the minority, but it seems that perhaps not everyone can feel MAOI

I have done this sort of, but using low doses (relative to my tolerance) only and not going very deep. I'm very familiar with these low doses, but not high doses. I've thought about working more extensively with higher doses of rue in the past, but was put off by an unfortunate event where a miscalculated combination lead me to experience what was likely a hypertensive crisis.

Recently though, I've started working with syrian rue more regularly. I've been microdosing for almost a week now and plan on taking a more intense dose of rue once a week, hopefully starting this week.

But I've also felt a calling to start working with oral DMT, so I've decided to start forming more solid relationships with syrian rue and Acacia confusa at the same time. I decided this at the spur of the moment a few months ago and it ended up fitting very organically into some other plans I had.

Thanks for the advice and kind words. Hopefully rue and I will get along as well as you and rue do.

I too am interested in stepping up rue dosing until I reach the limit of intensity without negative effects. In the past this seemed intertwined with nausea but somehow my body or mind have reached the point where this is not a factor. I referred to it in my previous reply if anyone reads this and is wondering. Seemed to be something about the sediment-like residue being consumed or the temperature of the brew, did not correlate definitively with dose strength.

I find consuming ground up seeds without boiling inefficient and a waste of material. Others vouch for avoiding nausea in this manner but in my experience not enough harmala is consumed rapidly enough in this way to give a decent result. Like flax seeds passing through whole without their omega acids even leaving the whole seed. Your results might vary. It's sort of a digression but I feel like it's worth reiterating to someone working with the material to read that.

Definitely worth feeling out the harmala side of ayahuasca to possibly maximize the overall outcome for a person in the early stages of experimentation but that's just the opinion of this cat. Maximizing the results of one's DMT plant source material is how I see it now.

I feel like I don't have much further to go in the direction of exploring rue. Last night was so intense I can't see much more happening but I continually surprise myself. The feeling of bodily vibration and conductivity, loss of coordination and really just barely being able to see beyond a headfull of shimmering oev's without visionary results makes me wonder if I've maxed out on rue. But complete absence of nausea make me think "well, gonna find out the old fashioned way" as I don't really put much value on experiences that are not my own, they are notable but also hearsay and stories more or less.

Love the afterglow, the insights, the visual effects are kinda "cool brah" lol, the antidepressive effect and the potentiation this plant spirit has granted me.

Everyone should be aware of the dangers of combos with this substance. Glad you are ok PM.

I have a strong hunch you will find this a powerful ally. Peace.

PM, you are surely taking your body weight into account. I only weigh about 130 lbs and 3g is fairly light for me. I think it is the recommended dose because it fits pretty well into a teaspoon, like I have in my kitchen drawer just in front of the knives and forks. I extract with multiple, low volume, short boils until the glow under blacklight is gone from the remaining grounds.

are you guys shaking the bottle??

3g is more than enough for me. I still feel it 6-7 hours later when I take that much, after the DMT part ends.

If you letting it decant..try to shake the bottle and drink 3g..see if that changes things.

I vomit pretty good at 3g also.

I have gone up to 6-7 grams..with admixtures..but I cant reccomend that. You do that at your own risk . Do NOT assume that becasue you drank that much without admixture that you should drink that much with admixture to start with. The DMT potentiates the harmalas IME as much as the harmalas activate the DMT. Some people seem to be incredible hardheads when it comes to this stuff, but until you know how the DMT and harmalas will react together, be careful.

There is nothing else like a full on death trip when you have taken too much harmalas with a tryptamine. It goes way way way way way beyond just oral DMT.

"terence mckenna used to talk about how harmalas are not psychoactive (a misuse of the term - i know) on their own...."

He said that you had to take a high dose(that he thought was toxic) to get the hallucinations from harmine..not that they were not psychoactive. In food of the gods he explores the idea of peganum harmala being soma used in high doses to elicit hallucinations/visions.

"Your boils sound very thorough but I wonder about the possible degradation of harmala with such long boils. I know research results from others might support a lack of degradation with boiling but my empirical evidence from my own administration leads me to believe that grinding the seeds pretty thoroughly and boiling twice with only decanting to give me great results"

Actually what we know about ayahuasca, is that long boils seem to be what is responsible for the higher levels of THH in the brew..which is usually what people want. When brews were analyzed they found all this THH along with harmine..and when rue seeds are analyzed without the boils they find little or no THH but all this harmine/harmaline etc..and then when caapi vine is analyzed they find much lower THH levels than what is present in the brews after long boils.

We can assume for the moment that the long boiling process with ayahuasca is converting some harmine to THH..and we can assume that its likely the same thing happens when rue is brewed similar to ayahuasca.

this needs to be looked into more by people who can do real tests.

I definitely make sure that all the sediment is in suspension when I drink rue brew.


I actually haven't thought much about how body weight would affect my intrinsic tolerance.

I weigh about 200lbs(90kg), so maybe that has something to do with this. Plus, I tend to have a comparatively higher tolerance for almost all drugs that I've ever tried.

So I suspected that I might have a higher than average tolerance to syrian rue, but I just wanted to see how other people's experiences compare.