trial and error thats how.


thats what were all doing here basically...


the ph 3 boil/ basify/ acetone/ dry leaves you with a pretty nice extraction to start purifying from. its alot cleaner than the casa stuff at first.

im thinking after doing the brasil tek to go and do a casa after that (when i did this with a very small ammount of seeds it gave me the only psychoactive product from any of these extraction atempts ive made, there was also alot less gook than just after the brasil tek).

so after the casa im guessing a further step might be to THEN bake the stuff and find a way to clean it up from there.

something is telling me that these toxins are heavier than bufo, and that when you break them down they become lighter than it and stick around in further steps of extraction. so im gonna just extract as normal and then bake some of the gook, make the leftovers lighter than the bufo and find a way to decant it or something... maybe do another casa after baking! yeah. then an mek/ naptha recrystalization.


so tell me how that naptha mek stuff came out... someone said it was insoluble in naptha... did you bioassay the naptha extracted bufo? im thinking that the stuff in the mek layer would be the bufo and you took out some impurities with the naptha...

I'm not sure about what or who you are replying
But I can tell you that MEK and naphta mix together perfectly, so there is NO two layers of Mek/naphta.
SWIM dissolved some gunk in MEK, then added the same naphta amount. During that process, each drop of naphta created a milk cloud in the dark MEK that's why SWIM is thinking that there is something to do here. This led to a small dark layer in the bottom and a main layer quite clear on top. Once evaporated, the main layer (mix of MEK and naphta less many dark stuff) gave undoubtly some active component that was tested sublingually (around 5-10 mg). A bit of nausea and head pressure, then effects were similar to small amount of smoked bufotenine.
SWIM don't know if pure bufotenine would totally left over nausea when used sublingually.

Try boiling your d-limo on its own, decanting from anything that precips. Then use a thermometer to monitor the temp of the d-limo, not letting it get too hot(140 °C, b.p. of xylene should do). That way you eliminate the possibility of precips. coming from the d-limo, and eliminate the possibility of picking up more toxins the xylene boils didn't(as the xylene boils seemed to work well). This way, you don't lose anything for opting to use d-limo over xylene, and you gain a wonderful orange aroma

That should work very well. SWIM would pre-treat the d-limonene by boiling the hell out of it for maybe 10 minutes and then after it cools down, put it in the freezer overnight, and then decant it. That should completely get rid of any precipitates that might be forming from within the food grade d-limonene.

When using it for bufotenine purification, SWIM would also use a thermometer to monitor the d-limonene temperature. The melting point of bufotenine has been reported to be between 124 -147 depending on the crystal structure formed. So SWIM would take it to 150 C for 5 minutes and then decant immediately, let cool to room temperature overnight, then decant and you should have really clean freebase bufotenine.

oh ok, thanks for clearing that up for me. yeah it was to your post before. that makes alot more sense than what i thought you were saying

so i supose the added naptha changes the solvent proporties enough to precipitate some unwanted gunk eh?

heres an idea for an expiriment then:
take a standard mek/gunk solution and put equal volumes in a few diferent containers. one you just let evaporate, another you add X number of drops, while increasing the ammount until its 50/50 in your last container. find out at about what point stuff stops precipitating. find out if a substancial ammount of bufo stays in solution or at what point it starts droping too.

then design a tek where you add a certain ammount of naptha to precipitate the crap, then after that pour it off and add so much naptha that that the bufo falls out and there you go.

we need standards (for each batch of seeds do a certain tek that is bound to work like 69rons 8x dcm defat thing, so that we can know what % your seeds are to get %yeilds from tek variation to variation), vocabulary, and experiments at every step of extraction to eventually develop a tek thats just fantastic. alot of waste will probably happen, but in the end i think it would be better for the community. when i find the time and money im going to start setting this sort of thing up.

Could anyone tell me what a solution of acetone + bufotenine should look like?

I'm guessing not black.

Depend if you are speaking about a pure bufotenine solution, which should be quite clear, or a solution made with crude seed extract which can be quite dark.

Yes, but I can not say if the precipitate is unwanted gunk or not. With MEK, it seems that the clear layer is the more interresting.



Unfortunatly SWIM have no more basic material to play with. He tried pouring until up to 75/25 naphta/MEK and it was still precipitating.

Some things SWIM learned from his experimentations :

Do not evaporate the food grade limonene, it always leaves with a oily product. It stays oily even when heated at 100+ for a while. Better try to crash out the goodies by pouring slowly some naphta in the limonene (and wait few minutes to see what happens, it is not immediate).
I am speaking about a crude extract obtained from boiled limonene that did not precipitate anything when cooling.

The dark/amber stuff resulting from the limonene+naphta can be 'dried' and is quite solid and shiny.
Acetone dissolve that dark stuff very well, so does MEK (no layer is forming at this state).
But when adding naphta to acetone, there is no milky reaction while there is with MEK+naphta. Not sure it makes any sense, I just give the info in case someone knows what to do with.
SWIM also tried to filter the dark acetone thru active charcoal (before adding naphta), which seemed to not be of any help, maybe the opposite as it may have captured some goodies considering the ridiculous amount of stuff resulting from evaporation.


So here is the next hypothetical tek SWIM will try with a small batch of seeds he may find :

Crush and toast seeds, add carbonate sodium (maybe toast again)
Boil all that in limonene for 10 mn
If something clean precipitate ... good enough.
If not, crash out the gunk with naphta
Three options are possible at this state :

MEK+naphta -> sepate->evaporate
Acetone+naphta -> sepate->evaporate
Ethanol-> slow evaporation (seems a promising possibility to crystalise bufotenine)

SWIM will not bother with A/B or re A/B of the gunk (anyway the gunk showed that is was no soluble in aciditic water)

the naptha crash is pointless unless SOMETHING bad stays in solution...

could you weigh your stuff before and after the crash and then evaporate and tell us if the evaporated stuff is active? (hey if not then we know were crashing the goodies and that this step is good)


another interesting thing:

"after boiling at a low ph and filtering, a dark sticky amber extract was produced (of course). when about 1/3 the volume of sodium carbonate was added it turned a bright yellow/tan and faded to a yellow/brown upon drying. it was beleived to be the base, but when it was added to MEK none of it appeared to dissolve."

i would love to know what happens when that MEK evaporates... if it did take anything with it it should come out extremely pure. If nothing comes out... i should probably tell the guy to add more base and try again?

That's what I tried to say. When limonene is evaporated after the naphta crash, a oily residue remain. Not a lot, but I bet that this is far to be 100% bufotenine as it never become solid. SWIM did not dare to smoke that oil

The solid from the naphta crash was bioassayed and IS active (although it has the belly and head pressure side effects).




I can't say. SWIM did almost the same except that he used an excess of carbonate calcium (more than 100%) and a mix of 60:40 MEK/naphta.
Once evaporated, MEK/naphta leaved a dark amber resine (quite solid tough). Very potent, but far to be "extremly pure".

So has anyone tried reducing the extract with zinc?

If that works to eliminate or greatly attenuate nausea, it'd be a prettty strong data in favor of 69ron's hypothesis that the nausea is caused by the n-oxide's relative inability to cross the BBB.

wouldnt a CASA also work like the zinc?

and garulfo it looks like the crash IS pointless if BOTH are active... looks like some stays in either one.

heres something interesting swim did:

"i didnt think the base was mixing all too well, and not enough water was added, so when the mixture was in the MEK it did not dissolve. so what i did was add just the slightest bit of water. a few tiny bubbles formed around the goo. when i looked at it thismorning the mek took on a light yellow transparent color."

i think he added just enough water to aid the reaction but not so much that it drastically changed the MEK's solvent proporties and get all the gunk in solution.

swim had a lil pile of cebil seeds that some other swim had apparently taken - roasted ground and then mixed with bicarb (dont ask me why) - swim was given this a few months ago and was cleaning out the cupboard and decided rather than throwing the 1.2g or so of snuff away he would just run thru this tek with it - not expecting much at all, at the end the dlimonene was boiled and left to sit and over a few hours this appeared in the bottom of the bottle




any chance at all its bufotinene ?

if so how can swim get it out - it seems solid enough that the d-limonene can be decanted - but then what does swim disolve it in to get it out ?

Whaow, this look likes really clean. How much limonene was used ? And did SWIY boiled it a long time ?
Why not pouring your limonene thru a coffe filter and keep the solids ?

I've been away for a while, but my main subject of interest was this TEK for obtaining smokable Bufotenine. However, things have gotten a lot more complicated in the last few pages; I am simply wondering, Jorkest and gang.. is the original Tek still suitable for obtaining suitable Bufotenine for a good, clean trip in a country where this is all legal?

The original method was so straightforward, simple, and with safe materials..

well it seems that the bufo that is produced by this tek is relatively clean..but when smoked is fairly harsh..and its hard to get a nice big full lungful of smoke without coughing...this may be because of smoking technique...because SWIM hasnt built a test tube vape yet...but it seems there is more work that needs to be done...but its nice seeing people working on it...this TEK is just a good starting place to get some sort of dry powder to work with...with as few toxins as possible..

now it just comes down to the details to produce a clean smoking end material

This past weekend I did another extraction attempt on 25g of Anadenanthera Colubrina seeds, following Jokerst's FASA/D-Limo tek with the few additions/modifications talked about throughout this thread to see if I could get repeated results.
A few things were confirmed & a few other new ones came up... (seems to be the norm with these seeds...huh?)

Here is a quick explanation of what I did:
*Toasted seeds @ 350F degrees for 45min.
*Grind to powder
*Basifyed with Sodium Carbonate
*Pulled with Acetone, using THP (100ml - 3x)
*FASA conversion (using 100ml acetone/.55mg Fumaric acid) solids filtered out
*Basifyed again with Sodium Carbonate
*Dissolved in acetone, solids filtered out, dried & scarped up
*Cleaned with 20ml D-Limonene, left to dry out
*Toasted again @ 350F degrees for 30min, left to cool, scraped up (was black)
*Dissolved in acetone, solids filtered out, dried & scarped up
*Cleaned with 20ml D-Limonene 2 more times, left to dry out, scraped up both times
*Did a 2nd FASA conversion, decanted the acetone, solids left to dry then scraped up
(seemed to lose a lot again, even though I did everything correctly this time) (??good or bad, impurities or Bufo??)
*Basified with Sodium Carbonate
*Dissolved in acetone, solids filtered out
*filtered 3 more times, dried & scarped up

What I have now is some very light tan, crystalline powder, but I have so very little of it...??...
I started with 25g of seeds, my yield was only .050mg!! (seeds were good, lost it in the 2nd FASA step??...??)
It is certainly active though, without nausea or head pressure, but still a bit harsh.
Only mild tingly effects & calming of the mind, no visuals at all. Six small hits were taken over around 10 minutes time.

The seeds were from a different source this time, a source that always has the highest quality botanicals. Everything was going great & looked very, very clean & like there was a lot of Bufo in there.
Up until I did the second FASA conversion on the D-Limo cleaned extract.
I think I did the second FASA step correctly this time, but only a small amount of Bufo-fumerate precipitated out!! I waited for hours & even evaped some of the acetone.
But only .050mg ended up precipitating!!
I also evaped the remaining acetone & what was left was not good looking at all, it was dark & sticky etc...

I would love it if someone who is more familiar & knowledgeable about the FASA reaction/process would try a FASA conversion on some D-Limo cleaned Bufo extract, to see if they get all of their Bufo back out with the orange oil etc..., removed, or if they have a loss as well.
I have 220g of seeds on the way, so I'll be doing some extensive experimenting.
Three different strains too,
120g of one that was very cheap, for experimenting.
100g of one I know is very high quality, for the yield.


On the other hand, I can confirm that toasting the extract @ 350f degrees a second time, after the bulk of seed material has been removed & it has been cleaned at least once with D-Limo, is well worth doing to remove impurities!
It successfully burns up some additional toxins/impurities & leaves a cleaner, drier extract after being dissolved in Acetone & the burnt-black solids have been filtered out.

Next time, I am interested to see if doing this progressive toasting also removes excess orange oil (by burning it off) after doing a number of cleanings with D-Limonene, as the extract is definitely much drier & more of a powder after the toasting again & then filtering.
I'm wondering if toasting a third time (or just waiting to do the second one) after doing 3 or 4 more D-Limo cleanings, instead of doing the second FASA conversion, would be sufficient for removing any residual oils, impurities, etc...
Then drying it & re-dissolving in acetone to filter out the burnt stuff & ultimately dry it & scape it up.
I'm thinking it would probably work!! We'll see...


Also, I used High Purity D-Limonene this time, I've been using the Food Grade D-Limo so far on all the other attempts.
Even though I pre-boiled & filtered the Food Grade D-Limo before using it, the High Purity D-Limo was so much cleaner & better for this process!!
The High Purity type dried out at least 50% faster & did not leave any oily residue like the Food Grade does. In fact, it did not leave behind much of anything at all!! Nice!
Using High Purity D-Limo the extract dried out completely into a powder, within minutes-to-hours, not days too.
Plus it does not make the whole house smell like oranges for a day after use. Not that I really dislike that particular side effect, but it does show how the High Purity D-Limo is just so much cleaner all around!!
The finished Bufo did not have that chemically-orangy taste on it either. That side effect I did not like much!

I'm not planing to use the Food Grade D-Limo for anything but cleaning the house anymore...
I feel the High Purity type was just so much cleaner to work with & what I'm really wanting here is pure, white crystal Bufotenine, over a higher yield.
I highly recommend trying it, it's only like $5-$10 more. Worth it, IMO!!

WS

While I know the whole point of this tek is to purify using limonene, smell and nastiness aside... is xylene the way to go?

SWIM followed the tek closely and everything was goig fantastic until just after the limonene boil. SWIM was using 90% limonene so this obviously was far from ideal. He has some 95% on the way. But after the limonene boil SWIM noticed very little difference from the step before except a lower yield. Even after a second limo clean and a FASA repeat what SWIM had wasn't good.

Anyways is Xylene a better solvent for the job? Something tells SWIM it is, but before he takes a sledge hammer to the ozone layer, he'd like some confirmation.

When I used Zylene it ruined my extract (pretty sure it was not clean enough to begin with) & it stunk up my house for 3 days!!
Don't know if I'll be doing that ever again.

I'm going to pick up some MEK & try that this next time.

Are you sure the seeds where good? The last extract I did I used some seeds that where clearly of better quality than the ones I had tried before, just much cleaner & more of it from the get go.
Unfortunately, I lost a whole bunch in the 2nd FASA. Not sure what I did wrong, maybe the acetone wasn't dry enough?
Not sure the 2nd FASA is a good idea anymore.

Using D-Limonene worked very, very well for me!!
Especially this last time with the High Purity from Greeterpene.com!!
I kind of wish I had stopped after the 2nd round of D-Limo cleanings...

WS