not only in this thread you went to null24's thread and picked on my advice for proffessional help

you did not share a word about what to do , you did not say anything helpful or offer any advice

all your purpose for that thread was to pick on my advice and pass your silly comment about trends in my post

why did'nt you try sharing something valuable instead of pickin on other people who try to help



when you read something like that you still expect us to discourage him from getting help , you are reckless , and as the post about null24's thread says , you are really not here to help are you ? you're just here to pick on people offering help

please understand this brother tango , no human can ever know about using touch and holographic representation unless they have done something similar

how can i talk about touch and this visual representation if i would'nt know how it works, only one who has experience with healing through touch can say something about this and pin-point that visual representation and touch is connected to each other as far as the tranformation is concerned , and i know you think its a good thing yet its not

the brain shocks which you get are the worst thing that can happen , those are the times the worst transformation is happening in your body

i used to get them running from the top of my head running down my spine , while my whole body use to shake and be extremly cold like i am dying

quit adderal immediately aswell ,

@Spiritofspice:
If Aderall and marijuana use are to be major contributing factors to this health issue, how would you explain the fact that I have near identical symptoms, and have never once touched Aderall or any similar drug?
Not only that, I've never even been prescribed a medication for the purpose of altering my state of mind or behavior, and I've taken MDMA only twice in moderation with no other amphetamines besides. I smoke marijuana multiple times daily, with 30+ day breaks a few times a year. Stopping the pot has no effect on the condition other than an increase in pain and tension, and more difficulty sleeping. This increase in pain does not go away even after a year of good diet and abstinence from any drugs, so it's clearly not drug use that is causing my problems, at least.

I'm not saying the Aderall is any good, but I really don't think that's the root cause. Just my 2 cents. It's interesting you bring it up though, it made me think of something as well;

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@Tango: Do you think that our greatly differing perceptions and methods might have to do with our differing drug use? Obviously we see things our own way as individuals, but I just realized that our different ways of getting through this actually do seem to describe our different choice of drug use quite well.

IE: It seems like you put a lot of time into repeated contractions, vibrations, waves and other behaviors to move tension around and correct problems in complex, systematic ways. Your descriptions to me seem much more detailed, as if you spend a lot of time examining and thinking about patterns of various sorts. (at least, all this is as it seems to me from reading your words... No judgement implied, just an example <3 )

In contrast, when I am in situations where I need to work out tension and get things moving, I nearly always have the instinct to sit in meditation, drinking lots of water and breathing deeply and calmly for hours. Once I alter my state of mind enough to perceive those long-frozen, paralyzed muscles that usually have no feeling, I just work through the pain and move and massage them until I can begin to use and take responsibility for it like any other body part. Other times, I will examine the area with sight and touch, using logic and knowledge of anatomy to find physical abnormalities and adjust them to a healthy position (with much popping, cracking and cussing).

Maybe it's just a funny coincidence that's got me distracted, but I certainly find it peculiar that you use Adderall and Weed and work through it with repetitive behavior and such, while I just use marijuana and prefer more patient, deliberate methods that do not need to be repeated.

I suppose that may be more reflective of our personalities and preferences, but do you think that there might be some sort of connection there?

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That quote from tango described every damn day of my life to a T, and I'd bet is a lot more relevant to my own experience than your own. I don't expect you to discourage him from getting help, and you're insane for thinking I would. You are still clearly not paying attention to a thing I am saying.

You have been evading every point I have made and deflecting them with character assassinations and logical fallacies.

Stop being a coward and answer me straight, or stop replying to my posts and just talk to other users in this thread. Do you have a degree or training? Do you have hands-on experience with this illness? I know where I speak from, do you?

We're not even engaging in the same conversation here.

this is exactly what i have been trying to say just breathe , concentrate on the exhale

the only difference is i don't want you to go adjusting your body on your own and avoid all popping & cracking

my belief is the body will heal on its own without any intervention on our part

just by being in the moment the body will heal automatically , because the body has got everything it already needs to heal

i don't have a degree yet i have experienced something similar , from reading posts online i cannot say how similar yet many similarities exist such as - brain shocks , visual diagrams and touching to transform , and yess i have also done a lot of cracking , popping which was fruitless in my own journey and was infact leading me away from healing

And with that...the bickering Will cease and desist.

Everyone is directed here for a refresher.

Jin...you're walking a thin line.

Edit:
Cyb, I was typing this as you made your post, and had not seen it yet.... But since it seems we might be working toward less misunderstanding, I decided to leave what I wrote. The following is only in positive spirits, and I was optimistic that things could move forward productively from here.

Should you disagree, do censor away!

---

You know, sometimes the world does not work the way we believe it should.

It's simple. I have scoliosis that was diagnosed by a US Navy Doctor as severe enough to disqualify me for service: This means that my skeleton is in the wrong shape and in order for me to have a healthy body, my skeleton must move from its current state to a healthy state. My skeleton will not reshape itself without the muscles also moving with them: it's a musculoskeletal system. All muscles, voluntary and involuntary, must be active in order to physically move the skeleton in almost all cases. If done actively, overall health improves. If done passively, the result is severe injury. If it is not done for a long period, I can't keep breathing and I will start to lose motor control and senses, get chills and shakes and will start to lose consciousness until I intentionally undergo the meditation/adjustment process again, at least briefly. I do not want to know what would happen if I lost consciousness in those moments, but logic suggests that I would go into shock until I was stabilized due to medical intervention, or I would die from respiratory arrest.

Hell, it's a miracle we're on the same page for once! Let's keep the ball rolling, listen to and trust Tango and me when we say that we must perform the actions to stay alive and able to provide for ourselves. There is a middle ground somewhere.

You are right; my body is healing itself on its own as I sit and breathe... but it is doing so by creating sensations that I must respond to. My body is not going to control my voluntary motor functions for me, but it is capable of generating sensations that I can use to understand how I need to move in order to participate with my body's needs.

Our bodies need motion, vibration, palpation and stimulation in order to heal, so they are telling us how to facilitate that, and we are following along the best we can. We really are actually following your advice as you intend it, but in ways that work for us, not the ways that work for you.

I understand that to you it seems as if we are behaving abnormally and doing unhealthy things to ourselves, but that is a misunderstanding. We are very different people with different journeys and lessons. Fibromyalgia is a different sort of illness, so our way of healing might seem strange and wrong to you; But the truth is that it is natural and positive to us, and if you would trust us in that you may find that we're not so different after all.

apologies ,i did not know you have already visited the doctor , i was under strong impression that you are doing this to yourself and are against medical help , somehow everything reads like that aswell

knowing this and since you have already mentioned you meditate , i apologise for much crap that i've written unnecessarily causing more suffering

No worries, suffering is voluntary anyway. Misunderstandings happen... that's why they say "To assume makes an Ass out of You and Me", right? I think we've each done our share to prove that point thus far. Besides: There isn't a person on the planet who actually understands this anyway, and everyone seems to make instinctive and unfounded assumptions about this dilemma. I really ought to be more patient and clear about communicating it, knowing how challenging it can be to understand.

For my part, I apologize for being rude and confrontational toward you. I realize that you really were just calling it like you see it and offering your best advice. I found the idea that this an act of self-mutilation to be very offensive, and I should have been more patient in correcting such an obvious error in communication, rather than insulting you for making a simple mistake.

___
And since I'm at it for the second time in this thread... My apologies to you, Tango, for trainwrecking your topic. Unfortunately, that cannot be repaired as readily, and this topic has turned into a bit of a mess.

Hopefully those involved still have the heart to continue on with crown chakras, adderall, and everything else you all were talking about before Jin and I rained on the parade.

@spiritofspice: My dose of adderall is very low and I have spent so much time examining what exactly it does to my body&mind that I'm pretty confident I have that under control. I Do realize that it can play tricks on you if you just pop a pill and go on about your day.

@jin: The purpose of this thread was to share something that I find unusual. It's not about seeking a diagnosis or asking for help -at least not the way you seem to understand it. Sure enough, many people won't relate to my descriptions of what's happening to me, but I think it's strange you are getting so bothered by something that has nothing to do with you.

It's also puzzling how you keep changing your tune from 'only a doctor can solve this' to 'I have advice that can heal this in an instant' and 'we all know that great magic can't be shared'. I for one don't know anything about great magic, and don't relate to the emo spin you put on everything with the endless mentioning of healing and suffering.

@cubeananda : Thank you for the suggestion. I remember reading about quartz on this forum a while ago, but then just got into doing my own thing and following internal clues instead of researching methods. My solar plexus area is where it all started, and I'm only now learning to access it. For a long time I kept moving the tension up, but now I'm finally getting to the point where I can connect the solar plexus region to the hips and shift the heavy lifting where it belongs.

@Quicksilver: First of all, thanks for addressing some of the random assumptions made by other members who posted here, and also for your well-written descriptions of some symptoms we seem to share.

Regarding your question about drug use, I do believe that Adderall played a complex role. Just to be clear, the condition itself has nothing to do with drugs of any sort. What Adderall did, initially, was provide that little chemical push needed to move me over the edge. It was other factors that brought me to the top of the cliff, tied me up, put a plastic bag over my head and a big stone round my neck. Adderall just hugged me, ever so gently, through the plastic bag..

After that initial stage, Adderall helped directly with both concentration and persistence. Indirectly, it helped with making the chattering inside my head so loud that I eventually had no choice but to notice it and, with time and effort, learn to find the space in between thoughts and work from there.

Experimenting with pot is new for me. I wish I had done it earlier (like so many other things, oh well..), but then again it does seem that there is a reason why stuff happens the way it does. Looking back, I can see how I was presented with certain opportunities a million times before the conditions were just right so that I would notice an opportunity and use it.

Anyway, while Adderall helps with what I'd call hard focus, weed promotes soft focus. One makes you want to get involved, the other helps with letting go. In my experience, the body does have its own mechanism for letting go, and I also remember reading a while ago about the sympathetic/parasympathetic nervous systems interaction.

I could go into a lot of detail here, as much of what I'm doing is essentially a tango between tension and relaxation, between interfering and letting go. It also has to do with how seemingly opposite states turn into each other, but I won't go there, as that kind of talk tends to just dilute everything and turn it into a new-agey flavored mess. What I do want to say is that waiting for the emergency brakes to kick in is probably not the best approach, and I know that because that's pretty much what I've been doing.

So that bring us to weed/adderall taken together, which I've only done a few times, and very late in the game (low doses too). I would say that the combo enables me to gain more control than I feel I can handle. For quite some time now I've been imitating spontaneously occurring event in the body (like if I cough spontaneously and notice it, I'll do the same cough on purpose to see where it starts from, what muscles are involved in pushing the air etc). I've also broken down automatic patterns (such as walking) into small pieces and reassembled them in a different pattern.

With the weed/adderall combo, it seems like the pot does the work for me in breaking the old pattern, while the stimulant gives me the cheat codes for creating a new one. A slow, laborious process becomes fully automated (not really, but you get the idea..), which is nice, but also scary in that I don't want to disturb autonomic processes that are supposed to stay autonomic. That has already happened, and the difficult part is to interfere with a function in the body just enough so that it starts working the way it's supposed to, then let go of any control you may have gained in the process. It's sort of like trying to start a car with a bad battery on a freezing winter morning: you get the neighbor to help you push it a bit down the road until the engine starts, but you don't want to get stuck pushing the car all the way to your destination -you want the car to take you there.

Hmm, that's pretty interesting actually. I for some reason never figured that stimulants could aid in rationally examining and participating in new patterns. That makes a lot of sense, really. My own way is to forcefully break the old patterns with reason and psychical manipulation of the skeleton and muscles, and then attempt to familiarize myself with the new forms emotionally in order to discover what makes them tick, and how to operate those portions of the body properly... which is quite difficult, really. My ability to examine the new patterns is really quite weak at those times(because my hips are uneasy, don't ask), so I can see how a stimulant would actually provide great benefit.
It would be great if others would consider points like this, or ask questions to clear up misunderstanding, before making assumptions and just telling you to quit. It seems to me as if you are using the drug in a responsible manner, as part of a healthcare plan, and with positive results to your health... Obviously you and your doctor are better equipped to determine what drugs you should and should not be using.

Something else worthy of attention is that stopping an adderall regimen without a doctor's guidance is really stupid. That drug is a very popular recreational stimulant in my area and age group, and I've seen some pretty awful and scary effects from immediately stopping long-term use. These folks should do some reading before telling you to just "quit the adderral", that's just poor advice.

It's funny that many of the same folks who were baselessly accusing me of discouraging you from seeking professional help are in fact the very people who are encouraging you to sabotage the health care plan you've made with your doctor, and telling you to go off of the meds that help you to be well.
Now that is what really puts people at risk: Neglecting to practice what you preach.

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I don't know exactly what brings you day-to-day results and doesn't, but have you tried stopping the adderral under medical supervision for long enough to see its effects om the healing process? It seems to me that, if you can find a way to learn through the repetitive behaviors you engage in, rather than willfully doing them over and over again for long periods of time, more avenues will open up.
I have found that the urge to engage in repetitive behavior is, for me personally, an immature compulsion that damages me in the long run. Through examining that compulsion and not acting upon it, I found that I could penetrate those deep sources of tension and restlessness and easily move more healthily. I also gained the serenity of mind to dissolve the boundries between my lower and upper body (for me, the repetitive behavior directly correlated to the center of the abdomen where the blockage is), and easily adjust my hips and the position of my ribs at the sternum (a major source of my own pain). I know these boundaries bother you as well, which is why I mention it.

Given, it is really hard to maintain passivity and serenity in the midst of such mental activity... but it can certainly be done, and in the quiet, calm place that is left, it is much easier to use the senses and discover healthy ways of moving, thinking and feeling.
The goal is not to eventually be a healthy, strong human being who constantly has to vibrate his glutes and crack his breastplate, right? The goal is to have a strong, healthy body and the ability to operate it in a healthy, efficient manner that does not risk injury... (and, you know... get a good night's sleep, take an easy breath and enjoy life fully )

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I really hope it continues on well for you. I know long-term doses of psychoactive drugs can be tiring and a bit confusing, but if it keeps opening up new opportunities and improving your state of mind, it is doing its job well. Lots of people around here will jump on your case and tell you that the adderall is causing your problems, but at least we know that this is unfounded; effects do not precede causes. Period.

Also: Foot reflexology is amazing. I've felt the effects before, but I am currently at a place where I can pick up the full benefit of it, and am looking into some specialized practitioners who go a bit more in-depth the massage therapist I regularly see. It's pretty incredible, the way it generates enough energy to actually blow apart locked up areas. They just vanish on one enormous breath that could rattle windows.
If you do give it a try, You definitely want to be comfortable with your practitioner... If you're anything like me, you will be by far one of the most forcefully responsive patients they've had (I broke the table), and it might be important to explain that you've got some health problems that involve some seriously strong pent-up energy. We're talking shakes, shocks, minor convulsions and magnitudes of sensation that rival the strongest of them all. An experienced practitioner will know this can happen, but an inexperienced one (a la 23-year old "rieki masters" will be totally freaked out... and you do NOT want somebody to start that kind of work on you and not finish. I'm sure you can guess where that leads.

On a more material note: I've just started wearing suspenders, and this has actually been a great help! Without the weight of my pants and belt, my hips are much stronger and free to move. I wear heavy pants and belts, and didn't fully notice the effects they had on my torso. I woke up this morning to a tight abs and a hipline I have never seen before. Things has moved so much that, when I touched the area while getting dressed, my mind did not know how to handle the new shapes and angles and I got high-powered shocks to the head and spine for about a minute while I re-adjusted to the architecture. I'm still working on using my hips like this, but otherwise it is much less painful to move and I can move more stongly and freely. I'm also a bit embarrassed to say that the results actually look really good. I've never had a good physique despite consistent exercise, and it took my by surprise to see waist and hip lines that look and feel... well, normal. Actually... They're even almost attractive. It's certainly a mindbender.

I know "normal" isn't really outstanding by most folks' standard, but it is by mine! I'm in the last legs of this challenge, and I should be enjoying fair spinal health soon. There are many challenges beyond that to regain my strength, my senses and my cognitive function which have all become precariously delicate lately.

And, of course, there's the utterly terrifying parts yet to go... the ones that will take everything I've done and learned so far and put them to the test; and the ones that will make the whole thing worth fighting through. God knows what they are, but there's no such thing as a free lunch.
I wish I could just say I read too much Joseph Campbell as a kid... but there comes a point where one it just stupid not to accept his intuition when he recognizes it. Oh well... I suppose that grail will look good on the mantle, at least. And seeing the wold in shades of deja-vu actually is much more rich and interesting than just light, sound and touch.

Speaking for yourself or not, I want to thank you for holding your end here and particularly for your initial post which I found refreshing. Though some of the things you speak of, with this of the physical pain and other unmentioned problems elledgedly similar to those more or less described in the OP - seem insubstantial in terms of facts (as cubeandanada was perhaps overzelous in terms of the ether) I agree with much of it regardless. By virtue of possible bias of my own, granted - As you look old in stubborn words and forthright manner of speach I feel old in that of inner contentment and poverty of motive. Cheers.

It's hard work, developing into our human body properly. All to maintain presence, presence of mind. In US culture, in academia, in the world as presented to us it is not commonly accepted that living can be so strenuous, mind and body robbed of potential by intollerant world views. The unhappinesses of others and approved practices of so-called happiness alike. It is very good for us to remember that we know our corporeal forms better than anybody, and wise to trust any personal intuition so regarding. Despite all doubt, I trust our brother tango here is on the right path.

And seconded on foot reflexology. I've read about it previously, as recommended aforementioned therapist, and as far as I can tell it is a very practical and precise medicinal field worth looking into if you are willing to finance a session. At least I would be, if I had a dime to my name =P

@Quicksilver: My main approach to moving tension in the body is a more general scenario of wearing heavy pants. I was actually thinking at some point that I should start some fitness trend using the stuff I've been discovering and applying on myself. Then it hit me that I can't really explain it very well, even to myself. It certainly is more about what's going on inside, so the watch-and-immitate approach would not work well.

Anyway, one of the things I do is add weights to my ankle, wrists, elbows, waist, knees (anywhere I can place them, really, although not everywhere at the same time), which allows me to start moving from a particular place in the body. Something I have just discovered that could prove useful to you as well, since you mentioned tightness in the hips/abdominal area, is using a machine at the gym to create a sort of zero-gravity environment. I'm talking about the machine that assists you with pull-ups/dips. If you select a weight that's roughly equal to your own body weight, you are pretty much floating, and can power your movement from anywhere (for instance, you can lift your entire body up or push it down by using a finger or the wrist etc). You can also use other equipment in a similar manner, but the setup I described above is nice because it engages your entire body.

As for reflexology, I know from experience how connected feet are to the entire body. About a month of barefoot walking on the beach made a huge difference for me ( I don't just stomp around barefoot either; instead, I try to activate as many muscles as possible, with every step). Also, not long ago my feet were flat like pancakes, but now all 3 arches are clearly defined, so I'm making progress on that front.

There's a Chinese place nearby with a big poster in the window showing what part of the foot is connected to what region of the body. Not sure if that's reflexology, but I might give it a try. What happened to Quicksilver at the reflexologist happened to me last time I got a haircut. When the guy started using the metal comb on my neglected (at the time) scalp, it got me all shivery, but heroic efforts to suppress it were made, and no chairs were broken.

*speaking of doctors: I just had a random look at my lab results and my serum glucose level a couple of hours after eating is 40. Now I have no medical training, but it seems like something the doctor should have mentioned to me, instead of just saying results were great (normal values are 65-99).

All that exercise stuff... I don't know how you folks do it.

Things are getting weird. I went to a new doctor today, and when he was examining me he asked "...and which doctor said you have scoliosis?"
I knew I was getting there and I've been able to see some results, but I didn't anticipate that... I don't really know how I feel about it, even. On one hand, that's good to hear. On the other, I don't honestly care; I'm totally dazed, I have poor coordination and barely any strength, my baseline state of mins is somewhere between an acid trip and a bad dream...

I really have no idea what's going on, but it's clear that every part of my life is funneling me toward some really crucial change very, very soon. Not only that, but my spine should be in working order in what seems to be just as long. I have no idea what the future holds and I don't know if I'll be ready for it...
The strange warmth in the January air seems to drive me to clean things up and prepare for something like the autumn wind stirs up a frenzy of activity before winter's hardship. Everything is changing... The last bits of my old body are giving way as I stretch and crack through them with newfound muscular control, and as they do so does my old way of seeing things. In its place is a perspective straight out of a dream or a fantasy, with the magic of the world plain to see as if in those moments of childhood wonder. Lines are blurred to dissolution, and this feeling of incredible foreboding and ultimate adventure fill the air as if I'm charging recklessly through the corridors of Bespin to "save my friends".

Regardless, I've got a pipe with 150mgs of DMT stashed away waiting for the next step when I get there. It won't be long... Hopefully I'll keep all my appendages though, huh?

I haven't been updating this thread, as not many here seem to be relating to this particular type of transformation, but I know what you're talking about, and there's been a lot of change since I last posted here. The one thing that hasn't changed is my distaste for dealing with doctors.. I just can't get myself to attempt explaining to them what's going on. So if you get any results out of that sort of interaction, please share.

As for exercising, I don't put energy into it. It seems that when I create a very low resistance setup and sync my body to a certain kind of music, it just moves to that rhythm, sort of bypassing the conscious mind. I have completely zoned out for hours at a time, just to briefly open my eyes every now and then and see my body in the mirror, doing its contortions at a very slow, steady pace. The movement is effectively powered by the tension stored in the tissue over so many years, that is now being released, and it's completely different from the regular, voluntary engaging of the muscles. Instead, it's more like yawning ( which is something I've also become quite fascinated with). I'd imagine that the many years I've spent relentlessly focusing on movement have something to do with that -it's like the body uses whatever is available to do its thing.

The list of changes in perception without any sort of drug is long and perhaps strange, so I'll skip that and, instead, mention the crazy bisexual sex I had with myself when I took an eighth of B+, after not touching psychedelics for about 3 years. It was awesome

Yeah... There are a lot of times that I get discouraged from dealing with doctors for that very reason. One thing I've found is just to look them in the face from the start and tell them that I've been dealing with something for a long time and it severely effects my perception, and for that reason it is hard to describe... Then they are sometimes willing to help me figure out what they need to know, and what I'm trying to describe. It's difficult, but it's something... The nature of this thing is that it defies reason, it's important that the practitioner knows that so they don't make inappropriate assumptions about motives or state of mind, etc. that might distract from the matter at hand.
I've got an appointment with a neurologist in a few weeks, maybe he could lend some insight onto the perception issue... I suppose I'll find out.

I'm not quite sure that I get what ya mean by "bisexual sex with myself"... But I think I would rather not anyway I'm a little more conservative when it comes to that aspect of things, but I'm glad you can find relief where it comes. I know I certainly have had great results in integrating sexual continence and celibacy into the healing process. It seems that after about 45 minutes teetering at the brink, I start to break further into modes of full-body muscle control that I haven't experienced before. Not only that, but the positive changes stay intact thereafter (so long as I prevent ejacuation), instead of fading away in hours or days like usual.

I'm really digging the effect that fresh pineapple has been having. It's definitely helping things along by loosening up stubborn structures and tight tissue in my face and throat. Lately I've been having these pains and totally exhausting sensations in what I reluctantly have to call the "heart chakra" area for lack of a better term, along with loud crunches and tearing, spreading sensations from the center of my chest when I stretch.... The pineapple has been really helpful with that by relaxing my throat and collarbone area, which is usually a big source of difficulty. It's also delicious!

Hi

releazing (spell?) can very well become habitual. I'm not 100 pct. on that changing tissue thing you have going on but does sound interesting. Anyway, how do you fell after all this work? It must have had a profound impact of what we call "the psyche". I have some knowledge about this. Much of it is taboo however.



I hope I'm not coming on too strong, but I think it would be a good idea to focus away from the body some time. I read that you have been working like one part of the body at a time which may have made things difficult? As you have discovered emotions and tissue are intimately connected, and that when you pull one part of your body the rest follows? It is only normal that the whole organism follows, bringing up stuff which may seem bizarre. But I think we are already way beyond that by now

Idk, I just hope you are doing okay. And i sounds a bit dangerous when having such an enormous amount of control of the organism.

Shoot me a PM if you like

Cheers

Sometimes I'm less fascinated by the matter at hand, and more so by how these descriptions seem to fit into others' heads. It's always gives a giggle to read some of these replies. I love the way your colorful words inspire such wild interpretations and replies, Tango.

On the topic of Taboo... I don't think we've got much to worry about here; this is a forum about DMT, remember?
We're all adults here. Unless it's prohibited by the forum rules, I can't imagine you offending many people. When it comes to the esoteric or the occult, the only thing that's guaranteed to offend is a bilious or flighty attitude... Not the methods or ideas involved, no matter how bizarre.
As Schrodinger put it, the measure by which one understands anything of great complexity is his ability to explain it in the simplest of terms, to the simplest of men.

Mystical woo doesn't cut it when the rubber hits the road, no matter how compelling it seems in one's own head. Statements to the effect of "I've got knowledge that could help" somehow always suggest to me that the author is merely on a spiritual head-trip, projecting the promises of whatever universal panacea he is chasing onto others' lives and unique situations... Not to say that's the case, but rather that it's highly suspicious from the other end of things.

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Sure... More control means more responsibility, and more opportunity to make mistakes. But is that supposed to dissuade one from taking on the challenge? There is no gain without risk. It's worth mentioning that for every person suggesting passivity and focus away from the body, there are just as many who push toward activity and further awareness of the body. One cannot have it both ways, and if Tango feels that he ought to do it this way then I personally think he ought to go for it regardless of the potential risks.

There's different strokes for different folks, and it's worth remembering that there are many ways to walk the same path. This conflict arises even in spiritual and occult arenas, where the duality is often referred to as Solar and Lunar. Neither way is the right way, and they both ultimately reflect each other in their nature. It's quite shortsighted to assume that somebody is going the wrong way, just because they are on a different path from yours.

This way is the Solar way; it's painful, active and creative. The changes are intentional, with one's conscious effort being the primary force behind them. There is no backing down, and no passivity. There is only pure determination. The unnecessary or immature aspect of the personality are not let go; they are shattered and blown away by the challenges of the journey again and again, leaving behind an individual who is greater and more capable each time for having faced such annihilation (even if he is exhausted. )

It's logical that this may at first seem wrong to somebody on the passive path, the Lunar path... Indeed, the Lunar path and its traditions are the vast majority of all psycho-spiritual disciplines. These are the ones focusing on symbols and exercises, ideologies and moral absolutes. This is the passive way, and while it may work for most people, it is not the cure-all and it is not at all the only way:
Take my word for it. I used to have scoliosis and atrophied muscles until I decided to control my body and yank that POS spine of mine into proper alignment completely through conscious effort. No doctors, and no hidden knowledge... Just good old fashioned attention and elbow grease

Yeah, yeah... passivity is a great way to get through some situations, and it's certainly a valuable quality to have at one's disposal when necessary. But that's not what's needed here... The way I see it, it's more useful to encourage and assist and encourage his efforts and his judgement, regardless or how strange or different they are, than to discourage him from the way he has already gone. Those choices have been made, and he has obviously chosen the way he sees as best. Trust him in that and you may find that both of your paths reflect each other, and that they ultimately share the same source and destination.

Nono, I've just got knowledge, from own experience. I have been working body-centred with psychs for over 1 year now. So I was just thinking that we could exchange knowledge, you know? Support and whatnot. I've also read about the subject, not anything esoteric though (IMO).

You can PM me too ofc.

-All the best

Oh, but I'd love to explain myself -thanks for asking Bisexual sex with myself basically feels like being the one in the middle, like Malcom. Had there been a threesome sort of action going on, I'd have been the guy in between. Now I"m not bisexual and never actually had that kind of experience, but that's what it felt like: take it in, pass it on, repeat .

Various parts of my body are always grinding against each other before they reunite, so I'm pretty used to having this sort of internal masturbation going on at all times, but the shrooms took it to a new level. One thing I remember is jumping high in the air and falling on my ass (I started seated in a cross-legged position on my bed, and then moved on to jumping and watching the jumps in the mirror, surprised at how high I was going ..). Haven't tried it since, but you're all welcome to...

@Mitchi: Welcome to the club So what's your story?

Well, I've been doing psychedelic/empathogen therapy for somewhat over a year now. 1 dose every 3. week or so. I did so because of chronic anxiety, and just one dose of 25C did wonders, more than months of cognitive therapy and mediation was able too (and may have ever could). The body started moving, there was subtle movement at jaw, hands and mouth.

Right now, I have problems at feet and neck, and I think it may have to do with nausea. But my feet are also very flat (pes valgus) since I was 3 or something. But not sure if it is one reaction in the body or loads. I have let my arm draw (I cannot draw), and it draws a nerve which starts at the tip of the big toe and then goes over to the (you know that bone that sticks out on the foot, on the side). I also have something in the spine that needs attention, but really have to be careful here. I think I will leave that for the tryptamines, they're really good at zeroing in. No room for (ego) mistakes.

I guess that's it. Well, could write much more. But you know

And yeah I've also thought that it would be valuable to find a book or something where one can see how it is all connected. If something like that exists. Eastern or western

I noticed you writing about a vortex. I have a book called something like "into the healing vortex" so that's pretty need