Actually I do think you and I have more capability to change things globally than a random native american. Don't we have more resources at hand? Don't we have more access to communications? Don't we understand better the cogs and wheels of the system, and isn't that an asset when it comes to acting?

Maybe we decide activism in the Amazon is not a priority after all. Maybe helping us is also the way of helping them, but that doesn't change the fact that mapuches, guaranis or the shipibo have in general quite less resources than you and I do.


Debt is the closest word I could think to express it, but you could picture it as awareness of a historical injustice. What differs is the perception of whether you are related to that injustice or not, and if so, in which way. Maybe your life, your circumstances, even your bloodline, is closer to the side of the wronged. I think mine is closer to the side of the wrongdoers. But it does not really matter where your lineage is, as long as you see the injustice and act accordingly. That's the way to "pay the debt", and I think we all pretty much agree here about what "accordingly" means.


It doesn't.


The germans at least paid a price, socially and as a country, for the nazi regime. And the holocaust finished. Colonialism is still underway, and following Godwin's Law, now it's like the nazis are starting to exterminate poor germans and aiming at the middle class as well. Most low class germans, and many middle class germans, fully realize now the mistake the country made when voting the NSDAP, or when not standing against their ascent. And of course, since the jews were the first to suffer, the germans become more sympathetic towards them the more they see the nazis' true colors.

But your point is again about personal, direct responsibility. You may have none, and perhaps I may have little. But I grew up in an european village built with overseas profit, and I cannot ignore that. Sense of justice brings strength and intent, and I use them the best way I know. If you feel yourself free of debt, keep using well your freedom.

If what you got from my post is that I am "free from debt" than you don't understand anything about me.

jamie, come on... read it in context. I was commenting and quoting on your previous comment.



I was referring to the feeling of debt towards the tribes exploited by colonialism, the same you were questioning. I thought that was clear.

I see, sorry. I misunderstood you.

While I agree, and have said many times that we are in debt to the peoples who have been the custodians of this land for thousands upon thousands of years, it is not(to me) debt the way many people would imagine it.

Our debt goes both forewards and backwards in time. We wish to be reguarded as equal to the native American/australian etc peoples, yet we don't seem to be able to stand on our own. We simply borrow and appropriate from these peoples, stand back and say "see, we are like you!". This neither serves to heal our ancestral memory(woulds which I believe exists on a morphic level that play out today in our psychology), or the wounds of the native American/other native peoples.

Someone once said "the indian wont be free until the white man is free", or something like that. I think this is true. Our debt first and foremost has to be to ourselves.. for until we see in ourselves an aspect that is worthy of us coming into our own, which involves our own quest for vision and transformation into something that we can truly own we do not have much to offer to anyone else, besides our own disillusioned and pathetic misery that leaves us grasping at (others) straws.

Not that we cant learn from other peoples..but we also need to get over it..and stop downplaying what we are capable of..and that includes our own valid paths of medicine work etc..coming into our own as capable "shamans" who can play a role in guiding our peoples..peoples who are IMO screaming out for something to give them meaning.

Only then, when we can come back with our own traditions rooted in the present that speak authenticity, will we actually have something to offer and share in mutual communion with other peoples. Only then may we restore the honor of our ancestral lines. Then we can truly say we are all one people.

I could believe that simply supporting indigenous rights and environmental projects and buying sustainable products etc is really making a big difference, and repaying my "debt", but I personally feel like that is just bullshit that I might say to make myself feel better. It is the illusion of power that has been given to us that leads us to believe that such individual actions(which I still support) have the power to change all of this.

It that is our salvation than I think we are doomed. We need to look much deeper than that.

Agreed... and I want to believe that some of those individual actions are a gateway to true awareness and to proper involvement, that they will become more than merely soap for conscience. This may be the real point of discussions like this. Thanks for your replies.