It has nothing to do with emotions over-riding logical thinking. I agree with objectivity but you have presented a weak, callous and simplistic argument. These situations do get peoples emotions up because we do not have cut and dry answers and it is sad and frustrating. Simply "blaming it on the man" is not a very logical response and a bit of a cop out. If you expect people not to get upset after some of the comments that you have written then you really should be having a word with yourself.



Do you really think that this is the case with this particular incident/tragedy? Or was it the pressures on a possibly unstable and over sensitive mind brought about by not fitting in with his peers? I think most kids, at one time or another, are bullied and bully each other. It is an ugly part of growing up. Add to this easy access to handguns, unrealistic societal expectations, negative sensory input from our culture, problems at home and it can all become too much for a young, developing mind.

This boy was not a messenger. Just a messed up kid. No one has profited from his actions. Maybe a few more cameras in schools. The lyrics on The anatomy of a school shooting that you noted in one of your posts say nothing about surveillance and control. To me that song just seems to glorify the violence of a bullied outcast.

Of the sources that i have read about the tragedy, the shooter was heard saying 'Why are you laughing at me?' before.
Also said: 'You ruined my life now I'm going to ruin yours'
He wasn"t shouting "oh my god, i can"t deal with all these cameras"

Security and surveillance in schools are a reaction to a problem. And i think you may find that the majority of the population would prefer this in light of events such as these.
People usually prefer that their kids arn"t shot while at school.

"Security and surveillance in schools are a reaction to a problem. And i think you may find that the majority of the population would prefer this in light of events such as these.
People usually prefer that their kids arn"t shot while at school."

The Majority of the population are gullible, linear and unintelligent who quite often get manipulated into demanding Wars, laws and policies that are not in their best interest. It is wrong to say that you would have kids searched before they go to school rather than just put a little more effort into assuring their fulfillment of life and general well being. Personally I don't see it as such a high standard to trust that our teenagers won't bring guns to school.

and get it into your narrow mind that i am not implying that every school shooter does what he does because of Big Brother. I'm saying that Big Brothers involvement into aspects of our lives are important factors which play a large role in most of the school shootings.

Jelly I see your point that rather than just reacting to the problem of shootings (surveillance/policing) we as a society should be reacting to the issues that bring about the shootings - but these I believe are far too deep and complex for any one or any group to effectively analyze and deal with - I think the issues of our society as a whole are this way, and unfortunately I think the entire system has to die and fall down before anything of much contrast can come to be.

Lyrics from Tool - Aenima:

"Cause I'm praying for rain
And I'm praying for tidal waves
I wanna see the ground give way.
I wanna watch it all go down.
Mom, please flush it all away.
I wanna see it go right in and down.
I wanna watch it go right in.
Watch you flush it all away.

Time to bring it down again.
Don't just call me pessimist.
Try and read between the lines.

I can't imagine why you wouldn't
Welcome any change, my friend."


I have beautiful visions for the world - I am definitely not a dark and gloomy pessimist - but I firmly believe that this software (society) is obsolete and no new updates are going to get us where we wish to be - it's time for a complete overhaul. New operating system.

Getting caught up in making little changes/revisions is a waste of time IMO - I think it's time to let go...let it die. I don't wish death or suffering upon anyone, which I'm sure would occur with such a situation over time, but there comes a time when fighting it is just prolonging the inevitable. Think grandparent in hospital, dying with family members trying to prolong the process with expensive procedures, medications, life support etc - nobody wants the person to die, but it's useless to keep fighting it. It'd be better to make our peace with the nature of things, come together and hug one another while we have the chance, and let it all fall - and then do what we can to build anew.

Some may think this is a radical perception, and I get that - I expect that - but at this point, attempts to hold on and make repairs just seem silly and fruitless to me.

but thats exactly whats happening , kids are bringing guns to school , would you have your opinion blind you from facts



whats up with the "narrow mind" ?, you think that will get you any points



a little more detail perhaps ! how deeply has this tragedy affected you ? did this affect your sleeping patterns ? has food lost its taste ? what is it ?

apologies once again , if i did'nt before yet after all those insane comments why would you still insist and go on ?

also goodluck

I am glad theres at least one who can see what I am trying to say Its a very intricate situation, like you said very deep and complex to analyze. Its even harder to communicate or put into words. and I admire your explanation and analogy to software and operating system.

"break apart to build a new, golden prisms rage on through"

The main problem is that the whole of the human race has had their natural values and instincts replaced by artificial ones, so when they encounter their natural (built in) values they perceive them as Secondary. Slavery has always existed and in today's world technology makes it far too easy.

I suppose your correct though, were far past the point of turning back. Perhaps I waste too much time and energy into these kind of problems when I should just accept that theres no hope. It just sucks too think of the true potential of humanity that never came to be because it was traded for some dillusion.

That being said If it goes down cataclysmic style I will so be that Woody Harrelson dude in the 2012 movie.

Actually I think this is all a natural process preceding A) the fall of this age and B) the rise of the next, in which I believe we will eventually see our potential played out to a much higher degree.

Like I said, I'm not a pessimist in the least. I see it getting far worse before it gets better, but I do see it getting better nonetheless!

^^ Jellyfox your last post seems to make the most sense , why would'nt you just post more in this logical and respectful fashion

"The main problem is that the whole of the human race has had their natural values and instincts replaced by artificial ones, so when they encounter their natural (built in) values they perceive them as Secondary. Slavery has always existed and in today's world technology makes it far too easy"

you can make you're point clearly , i'll just advice you to do more of the same in the way you're doing now , if there is some valuable input it will only be received properly if you do so the right way , choice of words is very important at times as this can either get your point across and understood or flat rejection

also respectful communication goes a long way

Do you have any ideas on how this can be achieved? Rather than just banging on about courageous messengers, parents that shouldn"t have kids, big brother, our gullible and unintelligent population and Woody Harrelson.

This spoke to me deeply. I was a very troubled youth in this exact situation described. At 14, My life had become a miserable insufferable, and intolerable. I thought heavily on what decision to make regarding my life. My mental status was completely debilitated due to years of psychology torture, also slighty crazy(genetics ), and I had a brain tumor. My body was inept due to lack of excercise caused by extreme lack of motivation. My soul was in a constant termoil to understand right from wrong. I I was in a ongoing intellectual osmosis. I absorbed of bit of information around me and was coerced by its untameable splendor. All of this began to cause me insomnia. Now I not had a normal 14-18 hours in my day to be miserable, with insomnia it became 24hours a day of agony. If I didn't have the will power I had to continue and and the wisdom to know that the future holds more value than a dead past, then I could have easily caused a tragedy like this. Not everyone has the power to contain themselves in the midst of strife. I think our society needs to start concentrating on helping the weak instead of perpetuating the munda ne.

FYI - Jellyfox is taking a temporary re-education/sensitivity training break back in the welcome area - so he is unable to respond to any additional posts in this thread.

Not at all man, totally good

*Edit to add: I suppose the view I present after this edit is quite incomplete - because you're right, there definitely are some people who are as you say, and have a desire to hurt/kill...I shouldn't imply that they aren't part of the picture too. But I don't feel like editing the rest of this, and I still stand by most of it - so I'm leaving it. I might have gotten a little carried away - didn't mean to turn this in to a debate or anything.



I dunno - that may be so, but who are we to assume who these people were? We know not. In my experience and from my personal perceptions of people, I think it'd be far more likely that these people are the quiet shunned children enduring large amounts of pain and agony. The kids who seemed to be 'crazy, ravaging psychopaths' usually turned out to be scared and unwilling to fulfill the needs for a serious confrontation when actually confronted by someone who seriously meant to meet their behavior with determination to end it. They simply prey on others who are weak and scared but haven't chosen to develop the facade of being a big bad mean menacing wolf. They are a form of bullies - they don't go shooting up schools because they don't need to kill to feed their hunger - they just need to keep their feet on others' throats to hold them down. Without others to hold down, they can't hold themselves up - so in general, these aren't killers - these are the enslavers, enslaving others by fear of their big bad show.

As Du57mi73 detailed in his/her opening up to us all (my love goes out to you!), someone doesn't have to be a crazy ravaging psychopath intent on destroying other people to break down and have a fit of rage/violence/murder.

There are plenty of children who, most of the time, are generous, courteous, sensitive to their feelings and the feelings of others, highly intuitive etc etc - who then also, at seemingly random times, break out in fits of rage and verbally abuse people they love, or even physically. I don't think these children are violent murderers full-time. They simply can't carry the weight they are loaded with, for whatever reason - am I saying that they're carrying more than anyone else? I don't know - I hesitate to say anything for sure, because this subject and these people's situations are definitely far too complex to have a complete understanding of...but I definitely do think that these children doing these shootings are as I illustrated in my previous post - children in serious pain and agony, who on any other day, you may think was just a very shy and depressed person. But sometimes...the levee breaks.

How many times have you heard someone speak of one of these shooters and say "Oh yeah, he was a terrible child, always bullying others and intent on hurting people." I'm not sure I ever have. It's usually "I can't believe so and so did this, it's so out of character for him, he was such a loving and caring boy, etc etc".

Again, definitely (probably) not the case in every situation, but...I dunno.

Heheh my mother had an encounter with a mama raccoon in her house recently - she had babies elsewhere, and upon confrontation with humans - my mom and dad - erupted into a violent snarling mess - my mom couldn't believe it, and her previous perception of raccoons as being cute interesting little animals was wrecked - but it's important to see that it's not that they are no longer cute and interesting animals, it's that they're that AND a violent snarling mess - in certain situations. We all are. Some of us have never been in such a situation, but I assure you, the potential is in there. And some people are in those situations far more often than most, and they may be able to resist breaking out in violent rage for years...but after living in a broken home and being stepped on year after year even outside of the home - in their second home, school - it seems silly not to expect them to explode at some point. We can all only carry so much - even the nicest of us. And I assure you that going to the principal for protection is one of the farthest things from their minds - it's something they simply will not do because it will not help - this is not as simple as bullying and getting the bully to stop.

The issue here, I believe, is that the inner worlds of people - within our hearts and minds that we live with day in and day out - varies far more than most are aware of because of the parts of their lives we don't see as we carry on with ours. And for some, these inner worlds are utter hell day in and day out - even though they're generally nice loving people. Doesn't mean they won't lose control and break open like the water balloon I referenced in the other post.

It removes no blame and faults no one else, but our perception of the issue determines how we perceive those in the situation, and thus how we attempt to approach and deal with the situation - and seeing them as helpless raging psychopaths who just need to be locked up or put on zombie-fying medication blinds us from seeing some other very real, very serious issues inherent in the way things go down in our society that can cause normal, loving, nice people - but people in a great deal of pain and turmoil - to explode.