Hi all,

we decided to start using rue for the price reason, it is about to come, but I read some bad reports on how people react to it so I am kind of... regreting the witch.

The Caapi extraction we were using was from 1g to 1,3g or 1000 mg to 1300 mg, oraly per treatment.

Unfortunetly I can't be sure of the amount because my scale broke down, but I will fill two capsules that would give me 1,5g of Ibogiane, so I concluded it is somewhere in that range. Here is the pic:

( can somebody tell me how to add pic)

Even at this high dose, we NEVER even felt nausea nor anything of a kind. We wold follow with Mimosa extract...(but this is not the topic of question).

I read horrible reports of vomitings, and not well being in general. Also the extractions may add to the experience of unwanted effects.

Can anybody elaborate on difference form Caapi extract vs Rue extrat.

thank you
Jox

For rue i'd start with around 150-200mg (depending on if its with dmt/admixture, and how much of it). The amounts of rue harmalas that you need are way, way less than the amounts you need of caapi extract.

I've never taken caapi extract myself but i've drank rue, rue harmalas, and caapi hundreds of times and i think the main reason people say rue is more rough is because its so much easier to over do it, and when they get into that heavy experience they mistakenly think its way rougher than caapi. I deeply love both of them and its hard for me to put into words how they compare. They're very similar but there is some differences, and for me caapi does seem slightly less nauseating and slightly more colorful. Some people seem to think there is massive differences but who knows really, it could vary person to person.. And/or lot of this could have to do with dosing (like i mentioned), and/or self-suggestion...Or there really is some big differences.

My advice would be to just explore it with an open mind, lay still in darkness with your eyes closed (helps tremendously with the dizyness/nausea), don't fight the purge if it comes, and nibble a bit of ginger is the nausea becomes too much.

The worst sickness and vomiting hell I have ever had was with caapi.

I have drunk caapi and rue both many many times..and combined them many times. Caapi tastes better than rue. Caapi has a very woody bitter taste..rue has a more sour bitter taste. Beyond that I don't find rue to cause any extra unpleasantness. Make sure you adjust the weight of alklaoids with rue though. Do not take an amount of rue extract equal to your caapi extract. Rue alakloids are stronger than caapi alkaloids for some reason..and this might be part of the reason some people get these results..they overshoot on the dose. The harmaline in rue makes it stronger.

Rue and caapi are not identical experiences, but they are pretty damn similar. Some people have said rue is more transparent and allows more of the pure DMT effect to come through, but I don't know what they are talking about personally. That has not been my experience. Both rue and caapi produce deep visionary harmala experiences. Some people also say rue is more sedating and caapi more stimulating..and that is also not something I have really experienced. I have experienced both rue and caapi both be stimulating one day and sedating the next. I have had the same visionary content with rue one day and caapi another day etc..I have gotten very sick with both of them, and had times where I never got any nausea with both of them. They both obviously activate the DMT and syergize the experience in extremely similar ways.

I guess it is like differences between peyote and huachuma or something..very similar entheogens but also some differences.

I think rue is definatly equal to caapi.

I have drunk rue tea about 50-60 times (up till 8-10gr). Aya 15 times.
I vomited on Aya 3 times, on Rue never (but close 2 times).
I have definatly more problems drinking Aya and keeping it down.
It also feels like i have gotten less sensitive over time in regards to Aya/Rue.

I like Rue. It always makes me feel safe. I've drunk immense amounts of it and it is kind of extremly gentle with me. I don't even get any nausea anymore (except from the taste) even if i drink a doubled dose.
With 6 gr i feel a slight tingling in my head and some of the hamala drunkenness, but usually i could still dance and do stuff.

Actually i don't know what to make of it. It seems unusual to have such a high tolerance.

I see you're heading for rue extracts rather than making tea of rue seeds.

Caapi extract differs from rue extract yes, but then again the one rue extract differs from another rue extract according to how much the harmaline was preserved during the process.

1. If you end the process (A/B's) with a lye basing and multiple water washings until the pH reaches 8, then you sure got rid of the lye but also of the harmaline. One will notice the water washes go seriously yellow as the pH drops. This is loosing harmaline into the wash water which is disposed of. Only 1.6 % of harmaline survives pH 8 in solid form.

2. If you end the process in an acid stage and precip with kitchen salt (Manske) and filter out the solids, you have seriously maintained the harmaline in your end product, and a form that is very stable for preserving, very soluble and has a good pre-set for the stomach.

3. If you end the process with a sodium carbonate base precip stage, there is less need (or none at all for that matter) to water wash your precipitations, because the sod-carb traces are much safer <--LINK than lye traces. Because of the lesser-to-no washing, better recuperation of harmaline is obtained. To preserve 99% of harmaline a pH of 12 is needed, this asks for 12.5 gr of SC / liter plus the amount to neutralize the acid. So quite a bit. Good link HERE.

* * *

The amount of harmaline in your resulting rue extract will be detrimental to it's maoi power and body load. Link 1, link 2. Of course you can also separate the harmaline from the harmine and obtain accurate dosing of both components, but as long as you do not do that, the mix can vary in power and experience according to the method used.

Thank you all for your responses.

I am starting tomorrow the extractions and I let you know how it went.

Jox

I think caapi lasts a bit longer esp with the after effects.

at least 5 hours for me with a slightly longer peak, with rue the whole thing is usually over by 3-4hours or so.

Yes this is true for me. Rue usually takes 3-4h. With Caapi i can feel a slight drunkenness even after 4-5h.

I personally experience the same time frame with both if given a sufficient dose to induce drunkenness.

I have had caapi go for 24+ hours once or twice..never had that with rue. It could just have been due to other factors like dosing too high. Im sure you can push it with rue the same way. Harmalas in general seem to be a pretty long experience once you get into the really high doses.

yea for really high doses of either caapi or rue its common for me to still feel heavy effects 12-24 hours later

Could this be a side effect of higher dosing with caapi than rue? I think it is.
One needs more caapi extract to reach rue extract equivalent (due the harmaline in rue).

Hi all,

we just did two sessions each, we do strong one time takes of pharmahuasca, and concluded:

1. rue goes up and down, when caapi has one up and stays there for the whole night. Rue drops in the middle and we thought its over, when we couldn't even sit up straight.

2. Many mentioned that it lasts shorter, not sure, it is about the same time, but maybe the doses...

3. for the reason 1. I would prefer Caapi, but will not happen...

Jox