has anyone had any successful extracts using already GROUND UP mhrb powder ([sources edited out -z]) I just finished my first extract attempt and my yield of 1/3 pound was nothing , i followed the teks quite well, filtered many times , defatted properly,(the naphtha seperated almost immediately) and my ph was at 13 when i added the naphtha at the end, even if i did the extract not to spec(which i did) i should have had some product migrate to the naphtha so will ground up mhrb alkaloids start decomposing if left for too long??

What tek did you use?

well i didn't use any one particular, i became familiar with all of them , it is a simple acid base reaction, When the elf spice is in an acidic medium, the amine group will be protonated and exist as a salt (NH3+). The charge will be balanced by the Cl- from the HCl but it will still preferentially dissolve into the water. Basifying the solution will result in removal of the extra proton back to NH2; an uncharged group which will favor migration to the non-polar solvent. My basic knowledge of chemistry is why iam baffled i didn't get any product, and i wanted to know any information on quality regarding already ground up mhrb , if the answer is yes ,leaving the bark ground up will result in lossed elf spice then im not going to bother trying to extract again, if the answer is no then im going to defat my already decanting back up aqu. mixture

[quote:3808083a06="Hyperspacetraveler"]it is a simple acid base reaction, When the elf spice is in an acidic medium, the amine group will be protonated and exist as a salt (NH3+). The charge will be balanced by the Cl- from the HCl but it will still preferentially dissolve into the water. Basifying the solution will result in removal of the extra proton back to NH2; an uncharged group which will favor migration to the non-polar solvent[/quote:3808083a06] Well, duh. I'm asking for the exact procedure because I'm trying to figure out where you fucked up. You should have gotten [i:3808083a06]something[/i:3808083a06] - even if it was bunk bark. Did the solvent just evaporate clean?

well it was done this way, extracted using hcl ph 3-4, filtered with coffee papers, decanted twice. defatted with naphtha 3 times, kept aqueous solution, then basified the elfspice aqueous solution. ( made a premix naoh solution and added it to the elfspice) Im thinking its around here it went wrong, maybe made it too basic? maybe too basic to fast perhaps?, but made it to ph 13 then added warm naptha, collected the naphtha and evaporated it, so i guess the tek used would be volvins without his 7th step washing. The evaporated material left im sure was tiny amounts of impurities form the naoh, didnt smell like plastic , zero elfspice. I appreciate any help i could get from anyone,but please dont "duh" me cause i have went past trying to figure out what i could have done wrong with procedure , that is why im asking if anyone had any information on already ground up mhrb or maybe the quality of heavenly products jurema on ebay, also maybe you could comment on possibly destroying the elfspice when making the solution basic, i added the basified water rather quickly, could have this destroyed the spice?......... so has anyone used already ground up jurema successfully

*crrrrrrringes* damn.. i hate to hear that lol.. just last night i ordered 1/2 lb of powdered rootbark from the same exact vendor.. ive heard in the past that getting the pre ground stuff sucks because you cant really see the quality of the bark that goes into it to begin with.. i messaged the guy to see if he could give it to me in its non ground up form.. its wierd though, he has all positive feedback.. you'd figure if it was garbage bark that at least a couple negative comments would be left..

I don't know. The pre-powdered bark works great for me. The only time I've had a problem is when I got the ratios wrong. I don't personally defat or ammonia wash when using MHRB, I think it's a waste of time when you can just recrystallize it. I just separate with an eyedropper and do a cool, freeze, cool cycle. I don't use filters at all because I find that the crystals stick to them and are difficult to remove. Maybe you should try using a specific TEK, as I feel that the Water>Lye>Rootbark ratios are important. I've personally obtained best yields when using Nomans TEK. Don't give up! Getting it right requires patience and may take a few tries.

Sorry, Hype. I was just "duh"ing your explaination of how an A/B works - you can assume that we all pretty much know that around here. You can't really over basify MHRB (unless you talk to El Ka Bone, who will surely be chiming in here with a "proper procedure" tirade), so that's not it. If anything you should add a bit more lye if you went just to 13 and stopped. This sounds crazy, but I think a big part of the problem is filtering. I know that a DMT HCl molecule should be able to get through a coffee filter, but every time my friend has filtered his material with coffee filters, he's had dramaticaly lower yields. Besides, filtering is unnecessary with MHRB, as is the defat.

[quote:4371234aad="Hyperspacetraveler"]well it was done this way, extracted using hcl ph 3-4, filtered with coffee papers, decanted twice. defatted with naphtha 3 times, kept aqueous solution, then basified the elfspice aqueous solution. ( made a premix naoh solution and added it to the elfspice) Im thinking its around here it went wrong, maybe made it too basic? maybe too basic to fast perhaps?, but made it to ph 13 then added warm naptha, collected the naphtha and evaporated it, so i guess the tek used would be volvins without his 7th step washing. The evaporated material left im sure was tiny amounts of impurities form the naoh, didnt smell like plastic , zero elfspice. I appreciate any help i could get from anyone,but please dont "duh" me cause i have went past trying to figure out what i could have done wrong with procedure , that is why im asking if anyone had any information on already ground up mhrb or maybe the quality of heavenly products jurema on ebay, also maybe you could comment on possibly destroying the elfspice when making the solution basic, i added the basified water rather quickly, could have this destroyed the spice?......... so has anyone used already ground up jurema successfully[/quote:4371234aad] I don't know what could have gone wrong, but this guy I know only uses STB teks and does very well with it - check the forum for more tips in terms of partial evaps and freeze precips to maximize yield. It's doubtful this stuff is bunk, although whole chunks of bark is really the way to go to ensure quality. Heavenly , hmmm, well this guy I know happens to have used this source recently and It turned out very well - but it was not pre-ground - whole bark is cheaper anyway, so stick with that.. Don't toss anything, it should be able to be worked out of solution eventually.

Noman, are you saying, then, that you recommend evaporating every pull as opposed to the freezing/filtration process (or would the freeze still be beneficial before evaporating?)

powdered bark loses potency. the longer it is stored - more potency is lost. maybe a reason for low yeild \ fresher is better

My friends find AB techs work perfectly well with ground MHRB to the point that they don't even consider trying STB techs. Also they like preground MHRB, being fairly lazy, they are perfectly happy to pay a few pennies more for someone else to do that for them. When using MHRB, they never consider doing defats, they always over basify, they never filter, they use as much naptha as they can get their hands on and they freeze precip. I'm sorry Hyperspacetraveller but I can't see what has gone wrong in your proccess. You have done things a little different from my friends but it sounds like you should have had something. I can only think you bought somthing that wasn't what you thought it was. If DrunkyDaBear has a similar story to tell in a few days time maybe that vendors name should be public knowledge.