These are some good questions amigo. I will see if I can explain my current feelings on these things in a reasonable lengthed post...

Also, thank you for bringing up that thread form a couple months back. I think a lot of what was said there is pertinent here, and, if anything, it is probably more useful to attract helpful entities than it is to combat the negative ones. Without the helpful entities, your success at combat could be rather marginal IMHO.

At any rate, what I said there certainly applies here.

1) I do indeed find that many entities will ignore you or be rather uninterested in engaging with you if you are not able to interact meaningfully with them or if you discount what they have shown you. They will certainly not go out of their way to prove themselves to someone who disrespects them or is set on believing them to be unreal. A bit of healthy skepticism is fine, as it shows your brain is working... but antipathy to their obvious existence is often a deal breaker.

I think with the more powerful entities, you really do have to be willing to take a few tangible steps towards them and display a willingness to work with them before they will gift you with that wondrous gift of proof positive.

However, with the minor negative entities, this is not the case IMHO. Those parasites that only want to feed on you do not care what you think, and often are thrilled if their "prey" is not able to fight back. Most predators are happy if their quarry doesn't recognize the threat and doesn't even bother to make them give chase. Which leads to:

2) The more worrisome malevolent entities do seem to not be interested in targeting your typical doubting thomas type psychonaut... at least they tend not to come after you specifically or have any special enmity for people who have not demonstrated themselves as being of a certain level. In this sense, doubt may in fact shield you from ever encountering the higher ups.

Of course, if you come stumbling into their domains or happen to be in their path... it will only make matters much worse for you. You can think of it like the way small time drug users are not likely to be targeted by high level LEO. It is only by being a serious character that you will get a task force assigned to you or have some high ranking members of the DEA concerned about you specifically... and yet, if you happen to stumble into their line of sight accidentally, you will still be subject to being taken down.

3) It seems to me that the low level parasitic entities are dependent on you for their power. Not your belief in them per se, but more your negative emotions. The "arch fiends," on the other hand require nothing from you IMO. You would do well not to "hurl yourself into their domain."

I think that the real bad asses out there tend to come around when they perceive you as a potential threat. This generally entails you having developed enough skill to have thwarted some of their plans and dispatched enough of their mid-level minions.

I know that my worst encounters with them came after I had spent a lot of time clearing out demonic forces from places like dank ruins, caves, and other places that locals tend to fear. I have had 2 demon princes personally come after me with a cadre of lesser demons as well as the assistance of a number of their human pawns. Situations like this are extremely dangerous. In this one I mention now, I would not have made it through without the aid of an archangel and a willingness to admit I had reached the extent of my ability to protect myself... I was pushed so close to my limit that calling on the highest powers to take over was my last resort.

This kind of thing only happens when you are on their radar... and you only get there by being a massive thorn in their side... something which is unlikely to happen if you are not fairly skilled and brazen... which tends to imply that you are not on any kind of fence.

4) Our egoic minds can be quite clever and creative, but IMHO are not capable of creating the kinds of vast universes that we can perceive and interact with via spice. I think that our little minds are not separate, though from the big mind of the Omniverse... which is both the ground and origin for all things. Thus, we can be said to be imagining these things, but only insomuch as a single brain cell can be said to be creating all brain function in existence.

Not sure if that answers all of your questions, but feel free to ask me to clarify something if it is unclear. These are merely my opinions about my experiences and those of people I have spent time with. Naturally, other people might have different takes on this.

I have seen them , maybe not with my eyes, but am still skeptical.



This i agree with.

cheiron

I agree that there can be many subjective truths that coexist, and that any "objective" truth may be impossible to achieve consensus on... considering the fact that it is impossible to disprove solipsism anyway. Thus, unifying the opinions of other people who may or may not even exist outside your head is a relatively pointless endeavor according to epistemology.

As such, I am usually astonished that people so regularly adopt the opinions of other people about what is true and tend to accept things they have no direct experience of... when it comes from a source they are inclined to trust. This is the basic dynamic of going to school (in any class that doesn't conduct experiments or give a direct experience like gym).

side note to huggie: I have never personally seen any proof that the moon is not cheese or that humans have been there. Have you? What proof is there, really? Some grainy footage and some rocks that could be from anywhere. I am not skeptical about the moon, per se. At least not any more than I am about all of material reality.

If a teacher tells you that quarks exist, people tend to believe, despite the fact that very few human beings even claim to have any direct experience of quarks... including most physicists who write books on them. Even the operators of the Large Hadron Collider never actually see the particles they "create" but rather interpret the output of a computer that should have seen evidence of their brief existence. And yet, you will find very few people willing to argue against the existence of quarks or even doubt their existence overmuch. This is due to the high esteem our society tends to hold scientists in... I have no idea why, as the bulk of them will never do anything worthwhile in their entire life.

If a mystic, on the othehr hand, talks about his direct experiences with spirits, entities, astral projection and subtle energies... he is regularly chided and few people will take him overly seriously. This is despite the fact that the number of people who report such experiences is orders of magnitude higher than the number of people who have direct experiences of quarks... despite the fact that these things have been talked about ad nauseum throughout human history, and there is often quite profound evidence for their existence that millions of people have witnessed. (i.e. like the efficacy of acupuncture which relies on the existence of chi) People can watch live video of open heart surgery being performed with only acupuncture as an anesthetic... and still turn around and deny that chi has any validity.

This amounts to cultural bias, and is not actually critical thinking or rationality. It is merely the expression of the ingrained prejudices of the people doing the judging.

_______


I too have met the Archangel Michael, in fact it was he who came to my aid in the example I gave before. He doesn't see himself as the source of his power though, but as merely the messenger of the divine.

He has had this flaming sword of Truth with him basically every time I have seen him.

Actually, he didn't really drive off the demons himself, or not the big bad asses anyway. He seemed to be witnessing and aiding me to connect to the source myself, and as he arrived, the energy I was using to defend myself became white and pure as the driven snow... only blindingly so. I actually defeated the entities myself. However, in the minute my ego got a bit inflated about this, he laughed at me and reminded me that I was on the edge of oblivion and had called out for help... and that I should in no way feel like it was my skill or wiles that saved me.

I felt stupid. But he meant it in a nice way, and it is hard to feel bad in his presence.

_________

on "hiding inside"

In the past it had generally been entities who helped find these buggers and remove them, or at least show me my blind spots and allow me to deal with them myself. A series of encounters with astral dragons in which I aided them had them gift me with some stronger protections, and vastly shrinking my blind spots. After this, I was able to perceive these hitchikers more readily, and keep them from getting in.

On a really deep and cosmic journey not long ago, I was guided to look inside my heart and was able to perceive a crafty demon who was actually a friend and associate of mine in another reality who had been living inside my heart for a long time... sometimes helping me, but often hurting me. He was tiny and could hide very easily in those tissues. He had a home there and had been living there so long he was in many ways master of that space. I actually knew very little about my heart, physically and energetically, but he knew every nook and cranny. Recent boosts in my vibration and ability to channel energy had weakened him, and he was old and somewhat infirm. In the end, though, I managed to find him and eliminate him because he wanted to be found and die. He basically provoked me into killing him. I recognized in this experience that he had done me greivious harm and often bore me much ill will, but he also had affection for me and kind of thought he was helping me. It was odd, but I was actually somewhat sad to see him die. Kind of a dick move to commit suicide by someone else's hand, actually. Whatever.


After this, I realized that I had friendships and connections to a number of powerful dark entities that went back well before this existence. It was a humbling awakening, but also healing. I have been firmly on the light side of things for eternities...

_______

It is hard to say why certain angelic beings and other loving entities and deities take a liking to you. Perhaps you have histories with them that you are not able to currently recall. Perhaps you are a good and relatively innocent person and they find protecting you to be their duty.

Who knows?

I do think that attracting and availing yourself of such beings is basically effortless. There is a reason it is referred to as grace. You can't really earn it exactly, but it also can't occur if you are not clean enough inside. Perhaps the Kabbalistic concept of accumulating good deads (mitzvahs) has something to do with it. After all, it is the Hebrew system that first recognized Michael and his brethren. Personally, I feel that it has to do more with having reached the light beings' plane in meditations. If you can still your mind and open up to make space, the light simultaneously comes down to you... and you go up to it. This is what is known as the Ruach Ha'Kodesh in Hebrew... Holy Spirit in English. If you are filled with this light, even mighty demons will flee from you... or risk being banished back to their realms of origin.

Hyperspace Fool, Nice to know you have been in Michael's presence too. They are humble in the respect that they do not ask for worship or anything because as you said, they are just the messengers and helpers of the divine, but i know Michael has a special role in this whole Earth drama we're part of espeically when it comes to these interdimensional and lower energy expressions. I have been considering starting a thread on Archangels for a while now.

I would be interested to see if any others have had any experiences with them either in hyperspace or not....Or, if any are willing to put some of the arch-angels validity to the test (although i feel like it should only really be done if 100% needed...but then again, i don't think the angels are bound by the same time and space dimensions we are so im sure an inter-dimensioanl nudge for the authentic sake of finding out about their objective existence is a valid enough reason )

A.A Michael appeared to me as a bright blue luminous light when i asked for him when i could sense that some of the wriggling brown gooey parasite things weren't there to simply play a magic trick on me.He then kind of proceeded to 'zap' these things away - I saw no sword or human form on this occasion.

He usually sends me this kind of not so subtle electric shock to my brain whenever i call on him, either instantly, or after i have said my request or prayer or question etc.I first felt it during the above neg encounter and now i can feel it when in the post waking up stage if i have been disturbed by anything on the astral or a dream that's woke me abrubtly. Have you expereienced that specific brain-shock before by any chance? An electric shock is the closest way to describe it i guess but it's not painful- probably around half a second long ,if that ,but it has a distinct energy to it. like a direct way of his non physical energy letting you know he heard loud and clear. For me now, that buzz is the confirmation that a being/entity of a higher frequency is attempting to sync and connect with me or that one of the Angels has heard what i have said if i have addressed it to them.

Bloody oath, shite and onions, !!!!!!!! and no forking sheet man, shux.


I just got done writing up a piece about my own battle with some badness....I've been thinking that maybe the 4 archangels were something I should have called upon, Micha-El specifically. During my own experience, after fighting my way half way out, this shock went through my brain. I called it hyper-mind warp-overdrive. For me, it was a bit intense and overwhelming. it was like a wave....it rippled and pulse as a shock that came up unbidden and rent it's way through my brains. lasted about a second, much like you describe. honestly though, for me it was uncomfortable and worrying.

Still, now i wonder.....Maybe the shock was Micha-El coming to my aid. For me, it was uncomfortable....but the trip that it came after was the most intense of my life.

BTW, in the Historical Illuminatus trilogy there is an invokation for the 4 arch angels, Mich-al, Gabra-El, Rapha-El and Uri-El. there's others similar available on line, but i remember that one in the book to have been well worded and good.

Damn that must have been a hell of an experience...



Fascinating, these encounters.



Nice idea to start a thread about that. To me, it is interesting to hear the different experiences with beings like this. Untill now, I haven't met any others IRL that actually met Michael, so being able to compare my own experience with others gives it some stable ground.



I dont remember an 'electric brain-shock'. A 'buzz' comes closer. I met him i think three times or so, and i recall a building bzzzZZZZZZ , like a wave entering my whole energetic system, vibrating. Maybe indeed like some kind of electricity. But it's not exclusive for Michael though. Might be hard to distinguish where it comes from, because my experiences have been embedded in spiritual rituals, so you might expect 'entities of a higher frequency'.

Michael entering the place is, however, a level intenser, and stands out for that. His 'vibration' asks, demands, really confronting every dark aspect, not in the least inside myself...



Interesting account... Sounds like, as I have experienced aswell, the entities have some sort of agenda once they accept you as someone they want to teach to, and they dose the experience according to the level of development of their pupil... I've had an experience where one guide introduced me to another guide, telling me that I had come to a point where I had to learn things he couldn't teach me (which turned out to be traveling in time to change events in my own past) and he introduced me to a more advanced entity that could teach me that.



Yeah, we might all have numerous connections on both sides, karmic bonds woven in a complex tapestry. Thanks for sharing that insight, it resonates



Grace... So it seems indeed. The intention also helps, of course. And a pure heart, or at least, as pure as possible. Being at peace. It somehow feels like having shared goals, like evoluminating , attracts them. The same might go for the darker entities, they attract to your goals or maybe if they think they can use you for theirs...



This might be a good conclusion to all that has been said about 'combating dark entities', imo.



Sounds like we need a new Lexicon entry on this one. The shockwave of a higher frequency being entering your mindspace...

I should perhaps mention that I have had physical contact with a Blue Orb light being who seemed to be electrical in appearance, but was clearly an intelligent alien entity... while sober.

Well, I was sick as a dog in a foreign land, and feverish... but the experience was confirmed for me by witnesses from across a lake who all saw the blue light. I had thought I might have dreamed the encounter.

Never thought that might have been Michael. I will ask him next time I am able...

No need to get so hostile and defensive. Remember I was only trying to help you overcome your concerned, which I thought sounded alot like it might not be rational.

You said:


So what you're saying is that Demonic entities, which you first encountered during vaporised/smoked DMT experiences, have since been following you and used human beings
as pawns to kidnap you in person and commit violence onto you?

Do you have any idea how much those beliefs match the description of Paranoid delusions?
So some people kidnapped you in Mexico and you link that to sinister entities encountered in a DMT trip you once had? Let me tell you it is not a sign of good mental health to see such an obvious connection between these 2 events.

Who abducted you and what did they want from you? Did it ever come across your mind that
extremely poor people in 3d world countries, like Mexico, get so desperate to feed themselves and their families that they kidnap tourists from wealthy 1st world countries?
Desparate poor people often rob wealthy tourists or abduct them and ask randsome.

Did your abduction sound anything like that? Because unless you're going to tell me
you were abducted by lizzard-men in a flying saucer, it sounds like you experienced
a pretty common type of abduction that happens almost dayly in 3d world countries.
I see no reason to conclude there is a link between the DMT demons & that abduction,
unless you tell me enough, credible evidence that there is a link.

If you don't agree with me that's fine,
but there's no need to get so defensive and lash at me.

For your information I have had 1 mayor psychosis once and perhaps 1 other, small psychotic episode before. None of them were related with Psychedelic drug use. The 1st one was actually induced by a combination of a troubled family situation-stress & loads of different wacky ADHD-medicines being given to me in quick succession.


The latter psychotic episode was again induced by stress. The stress induced by living in
an institution and being treated like a prisoner and a non-human being.


I have had a VERY bad trip once, on mushrooms. But never have Psychedelics and Psychosis overlapped in my life. So don't go assuming all that about me.
And remember I was only trying to help by giving you my point of view.

And by saying beings "Suck your energy" and "set traps for you" you have not
convinced me enough that this is an objective problem. And you failed to fully
explain why you see a link between your kidnapping and the DMT entities.
If you want to convince me that this perceived threat is more than a cognitive illusion, then you'll have to communicate this threat you perceive more clearly. More specific and concrete.

I'm critical of the human mind, of your's as well as of my own, because the human mind is known to create grand, persistant illusions regulairly. It tries to explain & rationalise
the experiences we go through, but doesn't allways do such a great job at it. So every belief I catch myself or another having I immediately subject to scruiteny and see if it holds up against rational analysis.

You can't just expect me to accept your concerns without questioning. We human
beings have so many concerns every day, yet so few of those concerns are rational.
I am questioning wether that really happened to you or wether it was merely a very
powerfull idea. Don't be mad when I ask that question. In fact...You should ask yourself the same question about that fear; Is it really rational? Is this fear really based on real threats outside of your self and thus beyond your control?

If you think it is, don't go get all hostile towards me. Go ahead and explain properly,
specifically & in detail why you think that those concerns are grounded & rational.

Hey SKA, I am not mad or lashing out at you.

I also don't think that this thread is probably the best place to get into the legions of stuff I have to say about this topic. I am also not interested in convincing you of anything. I don't believe that exchanges on a forum are ever going to convince anyone of anything.

But I will say that the kidnapping was directly connected to the dark entities. My friend and I were locked in the back of an 18 wheeler and driven up into the Sierra Madre mountains. At some point, they detached our car from the other section and left us in a field. We were fairly sure guys with guns would open the door eventually... but that is not what happened.

Instead, we heard a bunch of people gather around the compartment and we could hear them chanting and walking around the vehicle in a circle. It seemed they were doing a santeria ritual of some sort. At this point, we realized it was worse than being kidnapped by people who wanted money. These were some cultists who would likely kill us and sacrifice us to their demon gods. Surprisingly, neither my friend nor I were as scared as you would imagine we should be. We were resigned to our situation I suppose. We had strung our hammocks in the back of this truck, and we had weed and a chillum, so we just started smoking a bit and laying in the hammocks.

Next thing I knew there were demons coming into the truck from all sides... slathering and licking their crooked teeth in anticipation. I realized that I had been put into sleep paralysis. And that the main event was about to unfold.

I could see a bit of a foul rotty goatish demon thing behind me holding a scepter over my head. (we were only on weed) From his look... and his horrid smell, I pegged him as Orcus. At this point I began to get worried.

Next thing I know, Demogorgon came into the space and attacked me straight away. His psychic communication with me made it abundantly clear that we were to be punished for having had the audacity to banish a number of demons that we had been clearing from old ruins. I figured I was in for it.

But I knew how to exit my body and astral project, so I did... and I proceeded to fight for my life as the Demon Prince tried to wrest my soul out of my chest. I fought valiantly, I suppose. But I knew I was no match for two princes of Hell.

It seemed that the energy I was using to combat the demons became impotent as I got angry and scared. It was only feeding them. I could slash at the tentacles, but they just multiplied.

In my last moment, I called upon the divine... and was answered. The archangel Michael appeared, and slaughtered some of the horde with his sword, but he mostly just held a space open for the holy spirit to come down... and then it filled me. And my weak energy was immediately upgraded to full on blinding whiteness. I was thus able to dispatch the creatures fairly easily.

I began to feel immense pride, but Michael laughed at me and reminded me that I had almost nothing to do with it... and that the demon princes weren't dead, but merely sent back to where they came from. A victory, yes... but nothing to be proud about. He advised me to stop singlehandedly exorcising ancient demonic sites and showed me how it was not helping all that much in the long run. (kind of a whack a mole thing)

So I paid the respects that were due... and got out of the hammock.

A few minutes later the lock on the truck was unlocked... instead of having a bunch of mad cultists come in to kill us... we only heard a frightened man running off.

After a bit, my friend and I gathered up the courage to open the door. There was no one around. We could see footprints. There had been perhaps a dozen or more people there, but no one was to be seen. So we gathered our things and walked to the nearest road.

It was odd. There was a huge taco stand a few minutes up the road. Neon lights and little shrines to the Virgin Mary. Really gaudy... you know how Mexico is. We sat down and ordered a few tacos and some coca colas. We ate in silence wondering if the people there knew what had happened. They didn't look at us directly, and when we went to pay... they waved us off. We looked at each other, and then went to the road and stuck our thumbs out. After a bit, a campesino picked us up and took us down out of the mountains. He never said anything, and wouldn't take any money when we offered.

It was really weird.

Really weird.


There you go... believe it or not. I could care less. I have never had a psychotic episode. I know many people who have... many that I loved and cared deeply for. But I have seen shit that would make most people crazy. Somehow, I am not wired that way. Lucky, I suppose. This is not even the craziest story I have. Just one of many...

The life of real shaman are not easily understood by those who only know their little commercial worlds. I am not saying this to grandize myself. I don't know why I decided to share this actually. But if someone reads about this and learns something... maybe it is worth it.

Who knows?

SKA, maybe you could explain a bit more on your own point of view? To me, these entities are a reality. And while I have (luckily) little experience on entities manifesting in physical reality, there are enough stories of credible travelers that, combined with my own experiences, make me take that as a reality as well.

You seem to hold the view that, while the entities do exist, the idea they can interact with physical reality or manifest seems to cross the lines of your current paradigm so far that paranoia seems the more likely explanation to you? Or is it just, you have that option open, but are just very critical to claims about things like that happening?

@Hyperspace Fool: thanks for sharing your story. I found the part of Michael coming in, along with him telling you that you had almost nothing to do with the defeat and that it shouldnt be an ego-boost, interesting and educating. Weird story indeed

It makes me wonder, it seems like the dark entities are the only ones that seem to try to manifest in physical reality. At least, the stories that are told seem to involve almost always dark entities. The lighter ones seem to prefer staying at higher energy frequencies, i guess...

In line of the OP, i stumbled across this podcast from the psychedelic salon with Hamilton Souther. From the 39 min mark he talks about his encounters with dark entities and he also talks about physical manifestations of entities and how he dealt with that. I can highly recommend listening to the whole talk.

The skeptic in me would say that that story is either trolling or the rantings of a delusional egomaniac and complete and utter boll*cks. But i will admit that there is more in this existence to learn than we will ever know. I once saw Jimi Hendrix working the fish counter at my local supermarket. One part of me was both thrilled and amazed but the other half questioned the integrity of my reality. I am always having inner battles of this kind and have never been very sure of myself.

What do you think that we should learn from this story? Maybe when the sh*t hits the fan we must call for the assistance of a higher power. Like when someone is just about to be murdered in a film they sometimes go "oh God!". Maybe this desire to ask for help from above in times of extreme stress is encoded into us. Even non believers do it.

Jeez HF you have put me into a quandary as i am 90% in the "your talking boll*cks" camp, 9% in the "did he have an elaborate prank played on him" camp and 1% in the "i"m going to have nightmares tonight" camp (there"s a lot of camping it up going on at my house today!). Actually as i wrote "your talking boll*cks" the cat just pissed on the floor. So make of that what you will.

Either way it is food for thought and i am always grateful for a free meal.

Thanks for understanding. You summed it up nicely.

Also, I really wasn't stating blatantly that Hyperspace Fool's experiences were delusional.
I was however suggesting the possibility of delusion. I was asking the question: Could these fears perhaps be irrational & delusional?

Because if so you can liberate yourself from it. If you say that the threat is real and external that sounds like you're just a helpless victim without any control. But if the percieved threat originates from illusions spun by your own mind, then you are NOT helpless and there is a way out.

Forgive me for thinking with you in trying to get you out of a fearfull state of being.
Also I never said that there's no way these threats could be real beyond theatre.

I did say that sofar you have not yet given evidence concrete, specific and compelling enough to convince me that these threats are real. I'm still open to the possibility that there indeed IS a genuine threat, but you're going to have to bring more objective & compelling evidence. How else would YOU be able to tell wether these threats are external & real?

I have come across entities that were beyond horrific many times. Like comets of pure hatred
and anguish hurling itself towards me. Organic masses of Arms, Feet, Hands, Teeth...disgustingly amorphous, twisting, screaming, breaking it's own bones & tearing it's own skin as it sped towards me... I was terrified, but my fear ebbed away as I realised that beyond scaring the sense out of me they never managed to lay a finger on me or do me any real harm whatsoever.

The only power these vile entities do have is to scare you with theatre. But don't underestimate the power of fear. The longlasting influence of fear on your mind can
make you delusional and eventually exhibit behaviour harmfull to yourself and others.
I recognise the existance of these demons as I've encountered them enough myself,
but I have ceased to believe their bluff that they can do real harm.
Fear & Paranoya are favourite tools of these Demons to bring you off balance and turn you into a harmfull person. You know how they love chaos and destruction. Fear & Paranoya disorder & destroy lives worldwide on a dayly basis.

But if you cease to fear them, there is no harm they can do to you.
No matter how cliché this may sound, it works like a charm for me and has never failed me.
And I have surely never shyed away from travelling into the deepest, most hostile & agonised depths of my own psyche.

So if you're so adamant about the fact that this won't work on you and the entities you've encountered, Hyperspace Fool, explain rationally & in detail...Why?

Thanks for posting that story Hyperspacefool. As you know, i can relate to the encounters and prescence of both the lower and higher energy expressions.

Ska, you won't find objective evidence of a threat from these kind of things, because the majority of the time, the nature of the threat is intrinsicly connected to the mindstate of the person. You can feel drained from short to long periods of times and have thoughts/visions/feelings that you know are not routed soley in your own 'self'. Yes, you could attempt to diagnose that from a Western psychology perspective,but that could still be falling short of what's actually happening.

There's no easy way to prove for or against it really, but those that have 'testified' encounters with these beings all seem to share at least a few common attributes.

This isn't confined to hypesrpace either. Demons,Genies,entities,ideas like possessions and being tormented/haunted by negative encounters on the physical and astral plane are commonly reported not just in current times but as far back as you look in history across all continents. In certain sects of Budhism, Chrisitianity and of course shamanism/sorcery you find encounters with spirits and beings, some more tangible and recognizable than others, some completely disembodied.

I agree with you in regards to Fear though. At first these experiences are 'scary', but after a certain amount of repeating encounters,that fear isn't present, either through ability to exit that state of perception or through the confidence in remembering that calling on the higher energy closer to 'source' and more aligned with compassion can quickly help neutralize the situation.

I like the Buddhist approach to some of these spirits in that whether the negative entities are objectively separate from you or not, if you view them as part of your universal self either way, and show boundless compassion towards them because they are only expressing their own suffering outwardly with their conflict seeking nature due to their own inwardly turned neurotic hatred/anger and other afflictive emotions.

Nice perspective you transcend the ontologic discussion. Whether it are parts of you own psyche, or 'objective' entities, they are suffering and need healing. And whether the 'light beings' are a part of yourself, or objective, they still have healing powers.

Either way, it can be a challenging part of the psychedelic experience....

I guess I'm trying to combine western psychological thought with spiritual thoughts as seen in Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, Meso-American Shamanism, Amazonian Shamanism..and so on. I guess that would make me a syncretist.

As such I am not denying the truth in those old spiritual traditions(And specifically the truth about Demonic entities, Djinn..whatever you call them) Like many of you I once too
had nothing but contempt of Western Psychological thought, but that changed overtime when I
read some really intelligent and accurate Western Psychologcial thougt. Jungian psychology most notably and then the concept of "The jungian Shadow" in particulair.

I tend to forge a worldview that incorporates wisdom from all these different worldviews, Jungian psychology included. Are you familiar with Carl Jung's concept of "the Shadow"?

Because all these demons we encounter in hyperspace....I am quite convinced that these are various forms of our Jungian shadow... And as such they are not entities separate from our self. They are troubled, separatist parts of ourselves. They consist of repressed psychological material(hard to digest experiences and their lingering emotions, desires & thoughts.)


If you see demons this way, it does ( In my view at least) not discredit the views that Buddhists, Meso-american shamans & Amazonian Shamans have about demons. I think these views can be seen as 2 perspectives on the same phenomena. But it does open the possibility of
becomming impervious of their manipulation & free from the chokehold of fear they can hold over human minds. Because they are parts of yourself, they ARE within your control. It may rebel against your control, but this separatist, protesting part of yourself can indeed be reconquered again. Mostly you'll find it desperately wants to express negative feelings that you have been unconsciously repressing before. It wants to cry out at you, to be heard, to voice it's desires, it's regrets, it's malcontent, it's anger...etc

Let it cry out at you. Let it express what it so badly needs to express. Even if it seems
to want to express that in the form of turning into a gigantic ocean-monster and eat you
whole, let it do what it wants. Because you're in no real danger. And only after it's protests are heard and it's feelings are acknowledged, instead of repressed, these Demons will calm down again and become part of you again. Like some others here said before: This would turn these Demons back into Angels. Back into you again.

If you aren't familiar with Jungian Psychology, and "the Jungian Shadow" in particulair I would advise you to go read up on it. Then tell me what you think of it & tell me if these demons we've encountered match the description of this "Jungian Shadow" concept.

You might just gain a little higher regard for western psychology again.

I think this is a plausible theory.

Or there is the possibility that we are seeing separate entities to ourselves that simply do not adhere to the human concepts of good and evil. We, in our psychedelicised state of hyper-suggestibility, make connections with what we see and our stimulated minds run away with themselves.
That is one of the reasons why set and setting are so beneficial, in order to go in with a calm mind. Surely an evil entity wouldn"t give 2 hoots as to what state of mind you go in with. Because it is evil, with no morals.

As for the history of demons, djinns etc, i am not so sure. People also used to burn old ladies as witches. Which i think not only has to do with superstitious mumbo jumbo but, once again, plain old human folly, influence and suggestibility of the masses by the few for gain.

I"m sorry but the only good and evil i have ever come across has been down to humanity. But i could be wrong.

I can understand how the view point of these being related to the Jungian concept of the shadow would be favoured, and to some extent i agree in the notion in and of it's self. We see this most frequently in dreams, but then there comes a point where you kind of just know you are dealing with something outside of your self. Something that from it's own perspective , has it's own self.

some of the actual encounters are akin to meeting someone/something as real as you or anyone you meet in your day to day life. Would you apply the Jungian concept of the shadow to the whole of humanity/people you meet in person ?

That's the bridge where i accept both as legitimate views, in and of themselves yet also overlapping where it comes to the point where you define self or not. When you meet someone in day to day life, are they a part of you, or separate < applies to some of the encounters too. Some instances /visions/experiences are clearly magnified parts of the self in visually manifest forms, and some are actually existent in and of themselves.

I know that these concepts are heavily decorated in different ways of expression depending on the culture they have arised in. Similar to how different cultures report similar encounters and experiences related to near death experiences, yet there are common themes and patterns within the experience influenced by the myth,religion ,occult knowledge of that region.

A Christian might have visions of heaven or hell and pearly gates, a Buddhist might experience the lower or higher realms, a shaman might commune with dead spirits ,ancestors or spirits from various planes to carry out a task or healing.All differing views yet with places that overlap. It's these overlapping areas that hold the opportunity to look at it from a global and anthropological perspective.


Ska,do you apply the same Jungian psychology and concept of the soul to the spirits related to and encountered with Ayauascha out of curiosity?

I've tried to follow this thread a bit but it's gotten very dense for me to keep up.

Personally I'm troubled by references to human constructs like good and evil.
Even entities speaking in clear english I see from time to time I find to be more evidence of
some kind of internal freudian dynamics at work rather then some external intelligence.

The presence of good and evil in humans suggests that it must exist in some form within the soup of universal possibility. That being said is good and evil represented in nature?
Is a great White shark melevolent ? Is a Lion or any high level predator evil by nature?
Is the ocean or a tornado evil? what does it mean

I suggest that nature is nature and generally in some kind of balance.

What is a human construct or cultural artifact and when is it relevant?
I have encountered many types of entities in hyperspace , I still have no explanation as I have tried to make sense of it . Within my own unravalling of it I have tried to steer clear
of any preconceived cultural clutter. What is the actuality beyond our monkey fear and belief systems? its a tough problem to solve.

All this being said I actually can relate to some of whats being said in this thread
as i have personally done battle with some pretty intense and scary things within the hyperspace realm on many occasions.

Thanks for the many posts and positions.

My wife, she doesn't do substances, though she met a demon once (not me ) and it faded trough her deep compassion for it's suffering. This method has been said here, her experience confirmed this. Her choice for compassion was not stipulated strategy, it was instantaneously and spontaneously automatic intuitive response.

So you're saying you're a real Shaman as opposed to me, and other more scientifically inclined Nexians with our little minds confined to mindless consumerist ideals?

That seems like a rather Narcicist thing to say. Actually incredibly Narcicistic.
Äctually it's downright offensive. Why would you assume that of our minds?
Just because we choose to have a different view on these phenomena than you?

So just opting the possibility that you may be experiencing delusions is reason for you to assume I have a shallow, little mind and that your mind must therefor be that of a real shaman, which is why I don't understand you? Your brain spins the strangest explanations.


You say in the beginning of your post that you're not mad at me and don't mean to lash out at me, yet throughout your posts that is EXACTLY what you do. You also said, in that last bit of your post which I quoted, that you don't mean to "grandize" yourself, yet in that very paragraph that is exactly what you do.



And all this contempt & resistance because I was merely trying to offer you my perspective, which has helped me conquer exactly these fears, and I was hoping it could help you too.

If you're still convinced my way of dealing with these entities won't work for you, fine.
Let's just agree to disagree then.