CHATPRIVACYDONATELOGINREGISTER
DMT-Nexus
FAQWIKIHEALTH & SAFETYARTATTITUDEACTIVE TOPICS
12NEXT
This Is Terrifying: Anti-Drug Vaccines Options
 
Nathanial.Dread
#1 Posted : 5/18/2013 9:49:49 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 2151
Joined: 23-Nov-2012
Last visit: 07-Mar-2017
A friend of mine sent this to me, and it is one of the scariest things I've read in a long time.

It is a study that was done that shows that there is some evidence in support of the idea of an 'anti-drug' vaccine. You get a shot, and then it makes it impossible for psychoactive molecules to effect you in a meaningful way.

They've got cocaine and nicotine, they're working on heroin and meth now.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16023218

Quote:
Immunotherapy for the treatment of drug abuse.
Kosten T, Owens SM.

Source:
Yale School of Medicine, Department of Psychiatry, West Haven, CT 06516, USA. Thomas.Kosten@yale.edu

Abstract

Antibody therapy (as either active or passive immunization) is designed primarily to prevent drugs of abuse from entering the central nervous system (CNS). Antidrug antibodies reduce rush, euphoria, and drug distribution to the brain at doses that exceed the apparent binding capacity of the antibody. This is accomplished through a pharmacokinetic antagonism, which reduces the amount of drug in the brain, the rate of clearance across the blood-brain barrier, and the volume of drug distribution. Because the antibodies remain primarily in the circulatory system, they have no apparent central nervous system side effects. Active immunization with drug-protein conjugate vaccines has been tested for cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine, and nicotine in animal, with 1 cocaine and 3 nicotine vaccines in Phase 2 human trials. Passive immunization with high affinity monoclonal antibodies has been tested for cocaine, methamphetamine, nicotine, and phencyclidine (PCP) in preclinical animal models. Antibodies have 2 immediate clinical applications in drug abuse treatment: to treat drug overdose and to reduce relapse to drug use in addicted patients. The specificity of the therapies, the lack of addiction liability, minimal side effects, and long-lasting protection against drug use offer major therapeutic benefit over conventional small molecule agonists and antagonists. Immunotherapies can also be combined with other antiaddiction medications and enhance behavioral therapies. Current immunotherapies already show efficacy, but improved antigen design and antibody engineering promise highly specific and rapidly developed treatments for both existing and future addictions.



I kind of fear a future where, as babies, we're all given a mandatory anti-DMT, anti-LSD, anti-psilocybin vaccine. Maybe I'm straying to CT territory here, but still. Creepy (and amazing) stuff.
"There are many paths up the same mountain."

 

Explore our global analysis service for precise testing of your extracts and other substances.
 
jamie
#2 Posted : 5/18/2013 9:56:55 PM

DMT-Nexus member

Salvia divinorum expert | Skills: Plant growing, Ayahuasca brewing, Mushroom growingSenior Member | Skills: Plant growing, Ayahuasca brewing, Mushroom growing

Posts: 12340
Joined: 12-Nov-2008
Last visit: 02-Apr-2023
Location: pacific
I dont know if thats possible..an anti DMT vaccine? wouldnt that mess with your seratonin receptivity?
Long live the unwoke.
 
Metanoia
#3 Posted : 5/18/2013 9:58:34 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 1817
Joined: 22-Jan-2009
Last visit: 04-Aug-2020
Location: Riding the Aurora Borealis
I don't see it as conspiracy if they're actually working on it and plan to use it on the public. That is terrifying. Just when you think there's something they can't control, they find a way to do just that.

I can see the point of using it for heroin or nicotine, really addictive substances. That would essentially end addictions to those drugs. That is probably a positive thing for people who are suffering from those addictions. But to give you shots when you're young, before you've even had a chance to experience them firsthand...

And of course they'd make them mandatory for children who want to attend public schools.
 
Metanoia
#4 Posted : 5/18/2013 9:59:17 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 1817
Joined: 22-Jan-2009
Last visit: 04-Aug-2020
Location: Riding the Aurora Borealis
jamie wrote:
I dont know if thats possible..an anti DMT vaccine? wouldnt that mess with your seratonin receptivity?

That's why I think it's so scary. These vaccines would definitely have to mess with your brain chemistry in a real way. It would completely change people.
 
Pandora
#5 Posted : 5/18/2013 10:20:21 PM

Got Naloxone?

Welcoming committeeSenior Member

Posts: 3240
Joined: 03-Aug-2009
Last visit: 24-Feb-2025
Location: United Police States of America
Jeez - I already cannot get off due to my meds. Sad. This sucks.
"But even if nothing lasts and everything is lost, there is still the intrinsic value of the moment. The present moment, ultimately, is more than enough, a gift of grace and unfathomable value, which our friend and lover death paints in stark relief."
-Rick Doblin, Ph.D. MAPS President, MAPS Bulletin Vol. XX, No. 1, pg. 2


Hyperspace LOVES YOU
 
spinCycle
#6 Posted : 5/18/2013 10:27:14 PM

Life is Art is Life


Posts: 697
Joined: 11-Sep-2012
Last visit: 13-Apr-2016
Location: watching the wheels go round and round
It's gonna be a Brave New World...
Images of broken light,
Which dance before me like a million eyes,
They call me on and on...

 
null24
#7 Posted : 5/18/2013 10:35:09 PM

DMT-Nexus member

Welcoming committeeModerator

Posts: 3968
Joined: 21-Jul-2012
Last visit: 15-Feb-2024
Holy crap. Portland Oregon, has the second highest per capita heroin use rate in the u.s.apparently, just behind Manhattan. There's been talk of giving overdoses that arrive on the local e.r.s shots of a drug related to naloxone(Nar an) that will prevent the user from getting high for a month, without putting facilities in place for them to receive treatment. That'll will still be able toConfused o.d.and die though, so it prolly world out for the planners just swell.
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
*γνῶθι σεαυτόν*
 
InMotion
#8 Posted : 5/18/2013 10:52:06 PM
DMT-Nexus member

Senior Member | Skills: 3D programming, Mathematician (if you need help with algebra to differential equations I'm available), SKilled Engineer

Posts: 473
Joined: 07-Aug-2011
Last visit: 10-Jan-2014
Quote:
Drug addiction is a chronically relapsing brain disorder. There is an urgent need for new treatment options for this disease because the relapse rate among drug abusers seeking treatment is quite high. During the past decade, many groups have explored the feasibility of using vaccines directed against drugs of abuse as a means of eliminating illicit drug use as well as drug overdose and neurotoxicity. Vaccines work by inducing drug-specific antibodies in the bloodstream that bind to the drug of abuse and prevent its entry into the brain. The majority of work in this area has been conducted with vaccines and antibodies directed against cocaine and nicotine. On the basis of preclinical work, vaccines for cocaine and nicotine are now in clinical trials because they can offer long-term protection with minimal treatment compliance. In addition, vaccines and antibodies for phencyclidine, methamphetamine and heroin abuse are currently under development. An underlying theme in this research is the need for high concentrations of circulating drug-specific antibodies to reduce drug-seeking and drug-taking behaviour when the drug is repeatedly available, especially in high doses. Although vaccines against drugs of abuse may become a viable treatment option, there are several drawbacks that need to be considered. These include: a lack of protection against a structurally dissimilar drug that produces the same effects as the drug of choice;a lack of an effect on drug craving that predisposes an addict to relapse; and tremendous individual variability in antibody formation. Forced or coerced vaccination is not likely to work from a scientific perspective, and also carries serious legal and ethical concerns. All things considered, vaccination against a drug of abuse is likely to work best with individuals who are highly motivated to quit using drugs altogether and as part of a comprehensive treatment programme. As such, the medical treatment of drug abuse will not be radically different from treatment of other chronic diseases.


Vaccines against drugs of abuse: a viable treatment option?
Kantak KM. Drugs. 2003;63(4):341-52.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12558457

It's really not terrifying at all. People seem to get scared as soon as something they don't understand comes around. This won't work to make it so all the human race cannot get stoned. It would be impossible and impossibly expensive, incredibly illegal, and immoral etc. Relax. This is for people who want to get clean. It's just another alternative. I say the more methods we have available for people to kick habits the better.
 
hostilis
#9 Posted : 5/18/2013 10:57:52 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 908
Joined: 06-May-2012
Last visit: 07-Mar-2020
As long as it doesn't start getting forced on any person who gets a drug charge I don't see a problem. If you want to risk it to get clean go ahead.

I'll say as an ex heroin addict, it takes a lot more than a shot to get clean. This would require a lot of therapy and stuff along with it. Could be beneficial for people who ask for it.

Then again there are usually a lot of different chemicals that you can get high on with things like opiates or uppers. So it would be easy for a person to get back into the habit just by switching to another chemical.
3... 2... 1... BLAST OFF!!!!FFO TSALB ...1 ...2 ...3


My grafting guide
 
The Traveler
#10 Posted : 5/18/2013 11:01:25 PM

"No, seriously"

Administrator | Skills: DMT, LSD, Programming

Posts: 7324
Joined: 18-Jan-2007
Last visit: 09-Feb-2025
Location: Orion Spur
InMotion wrote:
It's really not terrifying at all. People seem to get scared as soon as something they don't understand comes around. This won't work to make it so all the human race cannot get stoned. It would be impossible and impossibly expensive, incredibly illegal, and immoral etc. Relax. This is for people who want to get clean. It's just another alternative. I say the more methods we have available for people to kick habits the better.

Thank you for explaining this InMotion!

On the DMT-Nexus we should avoid getting into an anti-something hype just because it sounds like it and is hyped like it.

I want people to be skeptic and use their own critical thinking when it comes to topics like this.

If people do not know what they are talking about, then please leave your opinion about it at home, we do not want underbelly feelings to run the topics on this forum.

So yes, thank you again InMotion for being a voice of reason.


Kind regards,

The Traveler
 
null24
#11 Posted : 5/19/2013 2:37:46 AM

DMT-Nexus member

Welcoming committeeModerator

Posts: 3968
Joined: 21-Jul-2012
Last visit: 15-Feb-2024
This is an issue as complex as addiction itself I suppose but for the life off me,i can't see the efficacy of such a treatment, for any drug, nicotine to heroin. It won't do anything for behaviour. Maybe in conjunction with some dialecti/cognitive behavioral therapy, or some other Model or combination, butalone, to me it is a terrifying prospect. The proposal to to give overdose on Portland long term narcan without treatment is awful.
We DO need a novel approach to the problem of addiction. It is Cultural, societal, personal, spiritual problem.
You know maybe if I cocoordinated with my doctor a nicotine vaccine with cbt,I may sign on, but ME and my behavioral issues,I have no idea hOw just not feeling something would stop at true addict from trying, even if there's was a good chance of dying.
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
*γνῶθι σεαυτόν*
 
benzyme
#12 Posted : 5/19/2013 4:40:53 AM

analytical chemist

Moderator | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertExtreme Chemical expert | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertChemical expert | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertSenior Member | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expert

Posts: 7463
Joined: 21-May-2008
Last visit: 14-Jan-2025
Location: the lab
behaviors aren't much of an issue, or else they wouldn't prescribe zoloft to people with OCD.
believe it or not, behaviors have a root in neurochemistry.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
Nathanial.Dread
#13 Posted : 5/19/2013 7:07:29 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 2151
Joined: 23-Nov-2012
Last visit: 07-Mar-2017
Null24: I think at least part of the idea is that you could, maybe, get the vaccine before you develop the habit. If nicotine or cocaine had no effect on your brain, then you'd have no reason to start using.

Even if you tried it once, you'd get no benefit.

There's consent issues, but I would not be surprised if new parents elected to give their child an anti-nicotine vaccine, as a measure of protection for their child.
"There are many paths up the same mountain."

 
Michal_R
#14 Posted : 5/19/2013 8:53:45 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 648
Joined: 06-Apr-2012
Last visit: 01-Apr-2017
Location: Old continent
benzyme wrote:
...believe it or not, behaviors have a root in neurochemistry.


Behaviour is always somehow linked to neurochemistry, yes. Yet studying neurochemistry only cannot explain the complexity of human action. I think neurochemistry can exlain very elementary processes in brain like uptake of serotonin etc - which are processes inportant, yet still too far from the act of "behaviour". The causal link between action/thought and neurochemistry is not also that clear, because often it is not possible to distinguish which is the cause/effect. I believe that most of human action is "caused" not by neurochemical processes per se, but by conscious decisions based on moral self-reflexion via (sub)cultural and/or religious norms, habits etc.
 
benzyme
#15 Posted : 5/19/2013 3:49:47 PM

analytical chemist

Moderator | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertExtreme Chemical expert | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertChemical expert | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expertSenior Member | Skills: Analytical equipment, Chemical master expert

Posts: 7463
Joined: 21-May-2008
Last visit: 14-Jan-2025
Location: the lab
so you don't think those behaviors are tied to maintaining a sense of pleasure (a limbic-system attribute)?

"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
Guyomech
#16 Posted : 5/19/2013 7:11:53 PM

DMT-Nexus member

Moderator | Skills: Oil painting, Acrylic painting, Digital and multimedia art, Trip integration

Posts: 2277
Joined: 22-Dec-2011
Last visit: 25-Apr-2016
Location: Hyperspace Studios
I find it interesting that people struggle so hard to separate behavior from chemistry. That's like trying to separate a story from the words that it's written with.

This may be related to our desire to think of ourselves as having free will, rather than being a complex bundle of causal actions/reactions. A separation between our personal will and the robotic actions of our neurochemistry is necessary if you want to believe in unfettered free will. But let's face the facts, fellow psychonauts: you know all of it is connected. Might as well get comfortable with that.
 
Orion
#17 Posted : 5/19/2013 7:16:22 PM

DMT-Nexus member

Senior Member

Posts: 1892
Joined: 05-Oct-2010
Last visit: 02-Oct-2024
Psychedelics need main areas of brain function, things too vital to simply block, I would have thought ? Either way this would suck.
Art Van D'lay wrote:
Smoalk. It. And. See.
 
Bill Cipher
#18 Posted : 5/19/2013 7:40:04 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 4591
Joined: 29-Jan-2009
Last visit: 24-Jan-2024
InMotion wrote:
It's really not terrifying at all. People seem to get scared as soon as something they don't understand comes around. This won't work to make it so all the human race cannot get stoned. It would be impossible and impossibly expensive, incredibly illegal, and immoral etc. Relax. This is for people who want to get clean. It's just another alternative. I say the more methods we have available for people to kick habits the better.


Thank you for providing a voice of reason in a thread full of frightened tit mice.

As for the rest of you, there's no need to look for boogeymen lurking around every single corner. The Man isn't scheming 24/7 to deprive you of your drugs. You all might want to ease up a bit on the knee-jerk paranoia.

These are treatment options, or rather they're tools designed to augment and assist with treatment options. It's not the new world order looking to shut down your psychedelic fun.

For a couple of years I took naltrexone and antibuse everyday. The naltrexone I took because it made heroin ineffective, and the antibuse as a deterrent to drink (as drinking on it can actually kill you). At the time, these were the only things that kept me from either scoring and using heroin everyday, or alternately drinking myself into a blackout. Ultimately, they weren't what led me to give up either or both for good, but they did serve their purpose and here I now sit - 17 years without fix or drink.
 
DeDao
#19 Posted : 5/19/2013 9:52:59 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 1222
Joined: 24-Jul-2012
Last visit: 10-Jul-2020
They will never take me alive!
"Think more than you speak"
"How do you get rid of the pain of having pain in the first place? You get rid of expectations"
"You are everything that is. Open yourself to the love and understanding that is available."
"To see God, you have to have met the Devil."
"When you know how to listen, everyone becomes a guru."
" One time, I didn't do anything, and it was so empty... Almost as if I wasn't doing anything. Then I wrote about it. It was fulfilling."
 
arcanum
#20 Posted : 5/19/2013 11:49:59 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 454
Joined: 28-May-2011
Last visit: 08-Aug-2013
Location: always on the move
Even though we ( debt slave segment of the power pyramid) are gradualy and inexorably having our civil liberties violated with each passing month/year. I doubt goverments would adopt such vaccines as mandatory for newborns, or even convicted persons. Some reasons that spring to my mind are:

The prison industry needs the "war on drugs" to keep occupancy levels high in state prisons.

In the case of nicotine,governemnts wouldn't really want a huge healthy octagenarian segment of the population drawing on pensions, that today remain largely unfunded.

It's improbable to contemplate that big tobacco corporations would welcome such vaccination schemes.

As previously mentioned, it's possible that "well meaning" parents might have their newborns treated with anti-hedonic vaccines, nothwithstanding lengthy pre-clinical trials, these vaccines could possibly have long term detrimental effects on general well being. Much like the blunderblussing of school kids with Ritalin, who knows?

I still can't shake off the nightmarish thought, that in future at some point, mandatory vaccines and microchipping of new borns will be the norm. Yikes!
 
12NEXT
 
Users browsing this forum
Guest (4)

DMT-Nexus theme created by The Traveler
This page was generated in 0.054 seconds.