I just wanted to get some feedback from all you psychonaughts on your opinion of the possible existence of heaven. Does it exist and how do you achieve it?

By loving your neighbor and becoming one with your creator so that you can understand it.

I have had a NDE and I assure you there is a heaven. Heaven is also where souls go to be reborn. So, take it how you will.

My answer may differ depending on how you define "heaven".

Same here, I think there is a place that exists in which infinite bliss comes with the territory. Though I'm not sure if that place is only made of infinite bliss and good things, I'd have to say there is a chance that pain and sadness reside there too.

At the moment I believe when we die we all return to "the point" or the single place which has no time or space and everything exists as one. Past, present, and future all exist simultaneously along with EVERYTHING else. I don't have a single thought beyond that about what goes on there, or how long we stay.

But this is only my current thought of the afterlife, it will probably change with the wind.

I had a certain idea in my head on how I wanted to reply to this thread, but I'm having trouble putting it into words. The more I'm learning new things the more I hate the limits of human languages. Hopefully in the future we can communicate through emotions and feelings. (Although I guess that would be cheating, challenges should always exist)

I think the concept of "heaven and hell" is the ultimate representation of the duality of everything. When you die and your consciousness becomes one with the Source again, that new state of being is drawing its interpretations from the experiences you had when you were inhabiting this physical body that you no longer have. That's why I think many religions see the afterlife as like a reward or a punishment for what you've done during your life. But it's not that you simply go to either "hell" or "heaven", you just become the sum of all your experiences on earth, whatever it is. You can't actually reach either of the extremes of the duality. And they aren't places, they're states of being.

As for is it real and does it exist, I would have to say that the similarities and consistencies between the descriptions of NDE's and strong psychedelic and meditation states, it's all just too much to be a coincidence. Also I have my personal experiences which "prove" to ME that it's real, but that should have no relevance to anyone else, everyone needs to experience these things for themselves.

This seems to be the consesus perspective when people describe the source in extreme DMT experiences. I believe what they are describing is truth and YET I still have this lingering feeling or belief that you can attain a state of an everlasting highest bliss. Its a question that I am really starting to take seriously for what could be a better aim in life then to achieve such a state?

I used to think so.

But now, not really. I hope for it, though.

Do i think there is a heaven, No. Do i think our consciousness continues after our body's die, Most certainly. Do some choose to call this etheric soup of consciuosness heaven, yes they do and thats where i feel putting a label my naming this state is short sighted but harmless.

My work and pondering with these substances and quite contemplation has shown me zero evidence of a rewarding blissful definitive place called heaven. What it HAS shown me is when we shed our bodies and our conciousness returns to the UNKOWN we leave our human ego's with our corpse. We see the true nature of everything and are able to think and understand in higher dimensions. Im quite sure this would be blissful as reported by thousands of NDE survivors, but is this a heaven? I really don't think so. Unless that just what you choose to call it.

Pearly gates, men with a big book or good people and sinners allowing or denying entry. That idea to me is pretty silly and what the church uses to keep the masses in fear and not thinking for themselves.

Were so engrained by millennia of dogma that even an atheist has it residue in his or hers thoughts. Its nearly impossible to fully escape its influences at very subconscious levels. NEARLY. I am an atheist in that i don't believe in any Christian/personified God that makes decisions with human like thoughts and judgments or any other type of God such as intentional self aware intelligence. To me the idea is very short sighted and an attempt of a 3 dimensional human explanation of that which cant not possible be explained here in this dimension.

So its a slippery slope for me because as an atheist with my non beliefs of God expressed above but my belief that out consciousness continues after death i don't really fall into any one label.

I do feel one CAN NOT believe in God but believe in some un definable state after human death. the 2 dont need to go hand in hand as so many of my atheist friends feel they must. Even science is showing us a lot of evidence that there are other forms and states of consciousness we dont understand but are finding more and more evidence of. If you choose to call that state heaven because its blissful and allows the true nature of everything to be seen felt and comprehended then to you heaven does exist. Its really just word play.

It would be nice wouldn't it?

I hope there is one, but do not believe there is one.

actually i feel it would nicer if there wasn't a heaven. For me its more attractive to just have a perfect self perpetuating force that we are all part of rather than fields of flowers and white fluffy blissful cloud cities with angles and all our dead loved ones.
I guess id rather see the true nature of things when dead than a dreamscape of a perfect blissful location. But yes i see why it would be hoped for and the appeal of it for people.

just to add, ironically i wasn't an atheist until after years of working with dmt. In all that time I have never seen any thing to suggest there is a god as so many understand god to be but I have seen loads of evidence that there isn't one. what a surprise this was for me and not one I very expected.

Quite interesting considering the fact that i began working with the molecule believing in an almost Christian like God so for me no one can say my previous notions effected the information or interpretations of my altered states with dmt.

That's just interesting to me.
thx

I believe in a God, or a higher power or something like that.

I can't define or explain it, can't prove it etc.

My prayers get answered superbly, I have no choice but to believe in something like God.
However that doesn't mean I subscribe to ideas relating to God, such as Heaven.

I tried really hard to be an atheist, it feels like self denial to me for some reason.
And at the same time I hardly count as a theist and am not clever enough to be agnostic.

If Heaven does exist, does that mean Hell does?
If you read your bible it is hard to justify the existence of Hell from any content it has, for that matter the "kingdom of god" seems to suggest other than common concepts of Heaven and almost implies that Heaven is either inside you or nowhere to be found.

I would define heaven as an everlasting state of perfect peace, happiness, ecstacy, beauty, love, radiance, and basically all things good.

I personally believe that both Heaven and Hell exist. Alot of people claim to have seen Hell in their DMT trips and some claimed to have experienced what would resonate with my description of heaven. I believe these states exist especially because of peoples stories, it is more the attaining of and retaining of those transcendant states that I am interested in. I mean theres no rule out there that says this cant happen for you although there is plenty of skepticism.

A lot of people seem to think what we call heaven is just a state of being. This may be possiblely real with in the philosphy of the ying and yang feeding each other energy. In this philosophy it was state that weather in a state of light or dark you can go from one to the other and your state is always temporary to some degree.

I believe that all things exist which would include Heaven and Hell. It is very possible that we all experience both in a series of lives and afterlives in the duration of infinite. Possibley as a result of the the way that we live. Cause and effect.

In this case neither heaven or hell would be eternal but only temporary forms experienced during your lives and your afterlives as opposed to just your afterlife. I find this to feel closer to what may be the truth.

I do believe that a source intelligence/awareness exist or what you may call god. Many people have described encounters with the source in their journies. This would be defined as the source awareness aware of all things.

Here is good food for thought-why is it when you do mushrooms, the good trips, seem to fill you with ecstacy. Why would something of a higher dimensional nature pour love and ecstacy into you? The way I see it, the higher dimensions must have strong ties with love and euphoria and thats a good sign.

No I do not believe heaven exists, no I do not believe our consciousness (if separate from the brain anyways) moves on to anywhere else either.



How? I have heard numerous accounts of NDE's and most of them have been completely different..

The only similarity and consistency I see is that you are undergoing an experience due to a change in the brains natural function, with highly variable results reported.

I had a very profound dream during adolescence in which I entered a higher plane, and heard the music of beings who didn't exist with our framework of linear time. It was a blissful and powerful experience, but I didn't get a feeling of sitting around and celebrating for eternity. I had instead the strong feeling of duty, and there being work to be done, but I was so happy that I was going to be working on what needed to be done.

As a child, I used to assume there was no Heaven, only Hell.

Now, I don't believe in anything like 'Heaven' they way you see it defined in the modern world (be with your family, hanging out with God, etc). If there is a Heaven, I imagine it's something like Dante's Paradiso, in which Heaven is an ineffable state of joyous communion with God (or to, The Universe).

As a neuroscience person, however, most of me thinks that once you die, that's it, you're done.

seems to me that this multidimensional universe/multiverse/existence itself is as close to "heaven" as anything could ever be.. you just need to shift perspective out of the broad swift stream of mundane thinking in order to realize it

this nailed it for me... i just thought i'd add one point though...I'm not really sure quite how to express it but I'll do my best

.. yes, people do tend to really personify the notion of god indeed. these days there's so many differing ideas on what "god" actually is that the word really becomes meaningless after a while.. its like a blanket term for something unspoken that we will likely never truly understand through the scope of the human mind.

But I think there is some aspect of the universe that people were initially trying to capture with the word "god" .. something that they could differentiate from the "darker energies" of the universe...perhaps that divine, wise, creative and loving/nurturing energy that is a staple part of reality. I don't really find the notion of 'god being everything" particularly useful in that it is very oversimplified.. in that case there would be no need to really come up with a word for it in the first place (at least in the sense of personification).. i feel there must have been some element of reality that people felt the need to give this name to (perhaps what many call "the divine" ).. rather than just reality as a whole.

hope that makes sense..

Acacian: I understand completely what you mean when you talk about what we are approaching when we talk about God.

For me, I don't see God as the wisdom or love of the universe, but rather, all of the laws of physics and reality. For me, based on my experiences with psychedelics, the 'thing' (for want of a better term) we perceive as God is basically the architecture of the universe, and that architecture is so unbelievably vast and complicated that our human minds can never quite get there.

Is it intelligent? I'm guessing probably not, at least, not in the same way that we human beings are, but when I perceive it, I do feel love. To me, this makes sense: the laws of the universe are shockingly fine-tuned to facilitate our survival and evolution, and so it makes sense that I perceive that as acceptance: a feeling that I belong in the universe.

That's just me, and what religion looks like to a math/physics geek.

It is said that 'Heaven is what you make it and hell is what you go through to get there'.

I consider this quite an accurate statement that has depth beyond it's simplicity.