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The Constant Questioning of Every Thought Options
 
No Knowing
#1 Posted : 5/1/2013 10:24:13 AM

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I have only been using DMT for a few months past 2 years at this point and it has transformed my entire life.

Aspects of my life like addictions to drugs and technologies have dropped away. I still use these things but in a much more conscious matter usually with a specific aim in mind. Yoga, meditation, and the arts have filled much of my free time. But this post is about one strange aspect of my post-breakthrough mind that I am puzzled with.

Every time I have an egoic thought, such as, "I am a friendly person...or....I am an intelligent person." Some part of my mind questions this presumption. Almost as if it is asking, "Are you sure?" or, "There is no way to know that for sure."

This carries into thoughts about reality also. Thoughts such as, "Evolution is leading us towards a paradise." will be immediately questioned as soon as they materialize in the mind.

Even so-called "insights" experienced during sitting or constant zen meditation are questioned immediately. The insights seem truthful in of themselves through experience and their pertinence to the moment at hand but something in my mind does not allow even these profound thoughts to be seen as truth.

I am not at war with this process but it is definitely strange. I feel like I am aware that nothing can satisfy as an "Ultimate Truth" of sorts and my mind is likely to question existence and the mind's own model of existence forever.

Or I am starting to see the lack of substance any kind of thought has in relation to the mystery of existence.

Just wondering if anyone has found this process leading to something or if this unfoldment of the uknowability of existence is just some new mode of being.

Excited to hear any responses.

In the province of the mind what one believes to be true, either is true or becomes true within certain limits. These limits are to be found experimentally and experientially. When so found these limits turn out to be further beliefs to be transcended. In the province of the mind there are no limits. However, in the province of the body there are definite limits not to be transcended.-J.C. Lilly
The Spice must flow
Zat was Zen and dis is Dao.
 

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cyb
#2 Posted : 5/1/2013 10:40:32 AM

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'the uknowability of existence' is THE most exciting thing...

To question EVERYTHING...is utterly healthy and will lead to freedom (and confusion unfortunately)

The minute you 'believe' something to be 'true'...you will be locked into a dogmatic state that will stunt your personal growth...

' IT ' is ALL so manically Bizarre...cherish that fact and always 'change your mind'...

Love

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Reserve the right to change your mind at any given moment.
 
Global
#3 Posted : 5/1/2013 10:47:27 AM

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No Knowing wrote:


I am not at war with this process but it is definitely strange. I feel like I am aware that nothing can satisfy as an "Ultimate Truth" of sorts and my mind is likely to question existence and the mind's own model of existence forever.

Or I am starting to see the lack of substance any kind of thought has in relation to the mystery of existence.

Just wondering if anyone has found this process leading to something or if this unfoldment of the uknowability of existence is just some new mode of being.

Excited to hear any responses.



It sounds to me (and I could be wrong) that you are interacting with the Freudian super-ego.
If it feels like a rather empty dialogue that leads no where, that's a good indication. Observing how your thoughts work, and how this mechanism modifies and presents your thoughts to you can be rather insightful in some way, and it'll probably give you "half of the pieces of the puzzle" but my recommendation is that if you do find these dialogues to be frustratingly going no where, and you're tired of constantly being questioned "are you sure" at every turn, I would suggest replying "who cares" and shift your attention to something else. If your mind gets too wordy, turn your attention to details in your environment, in just being right there in the present moment without reflection on the past or anticipation of what's to come, or why things are the way they are. There's a time and a place to think everything!
"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind" - Albert Einstein

"The Mighty One appears, the horizon shines. Atum appears on the smell of his censing, the Sunshine- god has risen in the sky, the Mansion of the pyramidion is in joy and all its inmates are assembled, a voice calls out within the shrine, shouting reverberates around the Netherworld." - Egyptian Book of the Dead

"Man fears time, but time fears the Pyramids" - 9th century Arab proverb
 
Guyomech
#4 Posted : 5/1/2013 4:58:53 PM

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I second both Cyb and Global's comments. You are experiencing a transition from taking the basic truths for granted, into a mindset where all these things are ripe for deep questioning. That's a good thing. It may seem incessant but you'll get used to it. You now have a new filter in place, and you'll never be able to take things- especially beliefs- for granted again. This is a thing to rejoice.

As a person who had his first big reality-shattering experiences almost 20 years ago, my experience has been that this filter is a permanent thing, and one you will come to value a great deal and become quite comfortable with.

Congratulations on attaining this very empowering state!
 
Vodsel
#5 Posted : 5/1/2013 5:44:13 PM

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Great comments so far.

For some people, this "State of Doubt" can be triggered by psychedelics or other life-changing experiences. I remember being in that state way before I tried any psychedelic. And I agree it's an important stage of development, at least in our culture, mostly grounded in reason. But like every stage of development, some parts of it should be kept and others should be left behind; the challenge is separating the wheat from the chaff.

One of the reasons why I decided to take powerful psychedelics was precisely a stubborn search for ways to break through this state of doubt. And even if from a rational point of view the psychedelic experience delivers more new questions than answers, it's not difficult to find in it hints about the next step... Like, our reason is limited. Knowledge is temporary. The doubt expressed by our self loses significance once the self is left behind. Everything is mysteriously more perfect than we believe. Rejoice in the mystery, ride the wave. And you can eventually integrate these insights into your life. It is, as always has been, a delicate balancing act - it's just you are more aware now than you ever have been.

I think the filter is inside your experience, not outside of it. You'll be eventually able to switch it on and off, and it will make sense. It's the work of a lifetime.
 
Nitegazer
#6 Posted : 5/1/2013 6:13:54 PM

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Enjoying the convesations-- great comments Vodsel

One way of looking at it is that all insights or thoughts are just constructions within our minds. They are just maps that simplify and make sense of the vast land we travel on. That isn't to say these thoughts and insights lack all 'substance.' They are how we live and make the decisions-- maps help us get out of the woods.

The constructs are fine to question, but be careful not to become overly enamored with the questions either-- questions are just constructions, too. Taking apart something that I have built myself isn't impressive, though it can be instructive.

Regarding paradise: my view (a map that I like very much) is that we are in it NOW. Reality is perfection by its own definition because there is nothing else outside of it-- reality cannot change into something else. Yes, that means that paradise causes suffering at times. That suffering is calling us to respond. That response is more important to focus on than 'truth' or dreaming up a model of a 'better world.'

Congratulations on making the deep changes you have made in your life, btw. That is wonderful.
 
EmptyHand
#7 Posted : 5/1/2013 7:25:42 PM

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No Knowing,

I certainly resonate with your description of constant questioning. How has your "inner questioning demon" reacted to the "answers" that have so far trickled into this thread?

Incidentally, harnessing the power of this sort of deep questioning requires discipline, in my experience. The meditative traditions called "Vipassana" (it means "insight"Pleased and Atma-Vichara (it means "self enquiry"Pleased may provide this discipline, if you find yourself interested.


eH

 
Jin
#8 Posted : 5/1/2013 9:57:33 PM

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well i guess people know my opinion on this matter

enjoy the moment

thinking , questioning , inner dialogue well that is just unnecessary and eats my energy , i rather focus on my breathing and consume tons of free oxygen rather than think myself to panic and despair forgetting how to breathe properly
illusions !, there are no illusions
there is only that which is the truth
 
โ—‹
#9 Posted : 5/1/2013 11:55:01 PM
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I've accepted the unknowability of the Mystery that we're all steeped in. I don't know what the Mystery is, but all I know is that im integrated within it,part and parcel. I rarely question much nowadays. I take in information, don't hold it as truth, and move on about my day to day. I dont get attached to any particular thought. I watch them like a film reel.

Smile, love life, and move on down the trail Smile
 
No Knowing
#10 Posted : 5/3/2013 1:56:04 PM

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Thanks for all the great responses really made my day.

@Cyb I resonate with your acceptance of the lack of truth. Melding with the chaos and avoiding dogma seems to be the way to navigate this state.

"In the pursuit of learning every day something is acquired; In the pursuit of Tao every day something is dropped."

@Global....I admit this questioning might be my mind just trying to gain ground over the power of present experience. Taking a "who cares" attitude seems to be more conducive to living in the present as one could question thoughts forever and there is a time and place for this. (When one chooses to)

@Guyomech....Yea I'm sure feeling comfortable with this "filter" will be a lifelong integration process. As nothing is ever unquestionable anymore. Glad to hear from someone who has been there and learned to live[or even thrive] with it.

@Vodsel...Thanks for this beautiful post from a man experienced in the mystery. Looking forward to riding this big wave I have found myself on.

@Nitegazer....Very pertinent statement about how the questions are constructions of the same mind they are questioning. This throws me into a bit of a strange loop [questioning the notion of questioning questions?]Surprised But I see how I shouldn't value the questions any more than the insights being questioned.

@EmptyHand....My questioning still operates on these responses but since they are from the "other" they hold an air of synchronicity. I feel more at home with this new mode of being. I have practiced Vipassana for a few months and have had VERY insightful sessions. I feel like I have practiced self-inquiry since childhood and am just now, through psychedelic use and a deeper sense of self, beginning to go deeper with that.

@Jin....I like your simple take on the matter. I agree anything that takes away from the moment is detrimental to pure experience. Thinking often leads down a dark road. Existence without thought is innately good.

@Tat....This simple description of your experience really helped me loosen up the gears of mind and get a bit more flow in my life. Thanks for that.

Thanks again!
In the province of the mind what one believes to be true, either is true or becomes true within certain limits. These limits are to be found experimentally and experientially. When so found these limits turn out to be further beliefs to be transcended. In the province of the mind there are no limits. However, in the province of the body there are definite limits not to be transcended.-J.C. Lilly
The Spice must flow
Zat was Zen and dis is Dao.
 
 
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