its very possible because he only took 60mg harmaline and 40mg of THH..with 30mg dmt fumarate...he was also quite drunk..well he wasnt after it kicked in..this amount of harmalas hasnt produced that effect for SWIM before...but who knows

Has anyone else tried the ascorbic acid thing or have we abandoned it? It's a shame to not see more knowledgable posters giving their opinions on the theory involved.

has anyone done simple solubility tests on the thh citrate and thh hcl that we get from our vendor. that mite lead you in the right direction. at least figure out what solvent the thh hcl or citrate is soluble or not soluble in and compare that to harmine and harmala. also, they sell the caapi copy which is the 3 alkaloids supposedly in caapi. someone should mess around with that and see if they can seperate the three.

Extracting harmala alkaloids is a lengthy process. All the many saltings, painful filterings, freebasing, etc. It’s a lot of work and for SWIM it’s just not worth the trouble. SWIM did it a few times and it took many days to get to a pure end product. After that he lost interest in extracting harmala alkaloids. There are many 10x and 100x extracts already out there of both rue and caapi, and several vendors already selling the isolated alkaloids. Why bother with it? I don’t much see the point.

It would be nice to know the various solubilities of these alkaloids. Maybe a better faster tech could be invented. I don’t like the current techs out there. It takes way too long to get pure results. It’s not like bufotenine or DMT where you really have no choice if you want them, you’ll need to extract them yourself, but with the harmala alkaloids, you can just buy them already extracted for you. Unless a tech is made that’s less time consuming and easier, I just can’t see the reason for ever extracting harmala alkaloids yourself.

Very little is published about THH. I think this forum actually has more information about THH than any other place on the internet that I’ve seen. That’s not a good sign. Basically, the forum members here are pretty much the only people actively researching THH! That’s kind of odd considering THH is one of the main active alkaloids in B. caapi. You would think that more information would exist on it.

I’ve searched and searched and I can only find about one paragraph worth of information on THH other than what’s on this forum. It seems like no one else is interested in it, not even ayahuasca users. I don’t get it. I would imagine that at least Jonathan Ott would be a little interested, but no, he’s concentrated his work on harmaline, which is hardly even in ayahuasca. I don’t get it.

I’m quite interested in THH, but extraction of it just doesn’t interest me. It’s like trying to extract aspirin. Why bother when you can just buy it? I know some people can’t get it (I think it’s illegal in places like Canada, France, etc.), and for those people a tech is definitely needed.

I would try to approach it from a 100x B. caapi extract. That should be maybe 40% THH. At least part of the work is already done for you. With a 100x caapi extract, it’s a simple matter of figuring out how to separate it from the other alkaloids rather than being a complex extraction procedure that will take all week to perform.

Mail order. Ha! Lucky for some.

Where I live it's not illegal to supply this compound. It just for some unknown reason, isn't done. Even if it was, paying $10 a dose doesn't really seem like an option. On top of that there's the joy of the process. I've quite happily worked for 2 weeks with dirty old rue just to achieve something closely resembling purity. By this method £15 can easliy acquire enough rue for 5g's of fairly pure extract which even if I could have items shipped to me would get me probably 400mg's at most.

That's life I guess.

Looks like it's a good old caapi brew while the research continues.

It's $10 for 200 mg. SWIM usually uses 20 mg sublingually when smoking bufotenine with it. That's one dose for SWIM. So for $10 he’s getting 10 doses. That’s $1 a dose. That's not bad at all.

Yeah SWIM's main use for it would be for pharmahuasca. He's also be known to re-dose when things become a little clearer.

Using it orally, 200 mg is one dose. But isn’t that about the same price as using caapi orally?

I can get 100g's for a little more than said price. This is 2 very strong doses for myself.

I think the part of this post that got most of my attention was the theoretical conversion to thh from rue alkaloids which could potentially get me 15 doses for the same price.

In all honesty money isn't really the issue. I'm just a little confused about how my 1 failed attempt on this conversion seems to have stopped any interest in the theory purposed by Nobuoni. Where one can just simply buy thh, it also eliminates the joy of everything inbetween. The chemistry process is so much more than a means to an end.

hey guys it is great to see this thread slowly developing... SWIM has unfortunately been unable to conduct any experiments as he has no space at the moment and has been sidetracked with other functions of life...

it would be good to summarise some of the progress that has been established so far. SWIMs knowledgeable FOAF kemist has indicated that the zinc route is definitely feasible. Although SWIM plans to validate this particular hypothesis soonish, it would be great if anyone could continue to help with the confirmation of the development of this tek. I will try to summarize all of the useful info that has been established so far asap...

I tried this a while back with no noticeable success. I am wondering how this would work if using vinegar and zinc were used.

Am I on the right track or is this method only suitable for n-oxide conversions?

damnit - i dont know how i missed this thread - swims sitting with almost a gram of harmala/harmaline from a rue extraction and another 50g rue seeds - swim would love to convert to thh - in that original tek from tihkal tek - is there anything that can simply replace the amalgam - also why is hcl being used - swim remembers reading that hcl should never be used with harmaloids ?
anyone try this tek and have success - if so what exactly did they do - if not - any ideas swim might try - swim cares not for loss of product - the joy of extractions and experimentation is enough to keep swim motivated.

quoted from

http://www.erowid.org/li...lkaloidconversions.shtml

seems important enough to get mentioned again

Harmaline has also been reduced to THH with Zinc & Hydrochloric acid. See Siddiqui et al. 1983 for the procedure. (This should also work for harmine)Siddiqui et al. 1983 found that addition of NH4Cl prior to basification with Ammonia increased the yield for this reaction from 50% to around 80% (by preventing the precipitation of Zinc hydroxide)

I don't know anyone other than myself that tried this.

I refluxed harmaloids in water with ascorbic acid for 5 hours. The end product tasted less bitter and it was active. But as I have never tasted/tried THH before I have nothing to compare it to. But it did seem cleaner than a usual harmala extraction, but it could have been just that and nothing else. A little cleaner.

I'm still trying though.

I need to find out the purpose of the amalgam in that reaction because other than acquiring that, it sounds very simple.

Oh yes and the most important observation. No colour change was noted during the whole reaction.

Should have turned clear.

Would like to read that report of See Siddiqui et al. 1983

But if zinc and Hcl were the only reagents it begs to question why anyone would add amalgam also.

^^I have looked long and hard for that paper but can't find it. I also don't really see how the reaction would work but my mechanistic organic chemistry is a bit lacking these days.

Anyway its easy to reduce THH with sodium borohydride but I am not going to teach people how to do that unless they know what sodium borohydride is and have experience with organic chemistry. (PM if your have a serious interest).

Where's the update on people's efforts regards conversion from harmine and harmaline to THH. Thanks alot, this is awfully iteresting and I know someone can do it!

I think the only way to answer that is as of yet there's no way to do it without lab equipment and hard to obtain reagents... a damn shame.

What would happen if I added 10% food grade hydrogen perioxide to either the syrian rue seeds, or to the manske extracted harmala alkaloids?

It may oxidise the harmaline to harmine or it may oxidise the alkaloids in a way that totally alters them making them totally inactive (most likely) or insanely potent (unlikely)