DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 580 Joined: 16-Jun-2009 Last visit: 15-Nov-2017 Location: Everywhere and nowhere
|
Any ideas guys? It's in P. Harmala/Syrian Rue and Tribulus Terrestris.
|
|
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1453 Joined: 05-Apr-2009 Last visit: 02-Feb-2014 Location: hypospace
|
My understanding is that telepathic was the name originally given for an alkaloid mixture that was later identified to contain two distinct alkaloids which became named harmine and harmaline.
Norharman and harmalol are found in decent amounts in Russian olive, in Tribulus the amounts are so low that it is not worth pursuing. Isolating them can be tricky, they are alcohol soluble but might not be accessible using AB and Manske methods.
|
|
|
☂
Posts: 5257 Joined: 29-Jul-2009 Last visit: 24-Aug-2024 Location: 🌊
|
iirc "telepathine" was the name they gave harmine after using it via ayahuasca in the amazon... until they realized the chemical was the same one that had already been identified in other plants as harmine
<Ringworm>hehehe, it's all fun and games till someone loses an "I"
|
|
|
"No, seriously"
Posts: 7324 Joined: 18-Jan-2007 Last visit: 02-Nov-2024 Location: Orion Spur
|
http://en.wikipedia.org/...ala_alkaloid#TelepathineWikipedia wrote:Telepathine was originally thought to be the active chemical constituent of Banisteriopsis caapi, a key plant ingredient in the preparation of ayahuasca; a sacramental beverage from the Amazon. This isolated chemical was so named because of the reported effects of Ayahuasca among the indigenous users, including: collective contact with and/or visions of jaguars, snakes, and jeweled birds, and ancestral spirits; the ability to see future events; and as the name suggests, telepathic communication among tribal members. It was assumed to be a newly discovered chemical at the time, however, it was soon realized that Telepathine was already more widely known as "harmine" from its previous discovery in Peganum harmala (Syrian Rue). http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/ja01578a041Alkaloids of Banisteria caapi and Prestonia amazonicum wrote:Three name, telepathine, yageine (yajeine) and banisterine were assigned to the alkaloids isolated by early workers. ... We have recently had occacion to examine this plant anew ... In our hand Banesteria caapi "Ayahuasca" has yielded harmine (I) as its major alkaloid. We have found in addition lesser quantities of harmaline, and a third alkaloid, previously undescribed ... Tetrahydroharmine appeared to be the only likely alternate structure ... Kind regards, The Traveler
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 12340 Joined: 12-Nov-2008 Last visit: 02-Apr-2023 Location: pacific
|
AlbertKLloyd wrote:My understanding is that telepathic was the name originally given for an alkaloid mixture that was later identified to contain two distinct alkaloids which became named harmine and harmaline.
Norharman and harmalol are found in decent amounts in Russian olive, in Tribulus the amounts are so low that it is not worth pursuing. Isolating them can be tricky, they are alcohol soluble but might not be accessible using AB and Manske methods. I drove 4 hours last summer to camp at s pot and harvest a big bag of russian olive. The usual precipitation teks did not yeild any usable ammount of harmalas at all. I know a handful of others who have had success with brews and alcohol extracts and said the potency was at least on par with caapi leaf for the leaves..and that bark was comparable to vine.. So I would def try a differet tek from manske or base precip. I used all my stash with that one tek and then gave up and left it in the fridge for too long. Oh well, Im going back this year for more. And I was smart enough to harvest seed The only russian olive I have seen near in my area is on private property so that sucks. Long live the unwoke.
|
|
|
Kalt und Heiß, Schwarz und Rot, Kürper und Geist, Liebe und Chaos
Posts: 4661 Joined: 02-Jun-2008 Last visit: 30-Apr-2022
|
jamie, if there was no manske or base-precipitation evident with the russian olive tree chances are there wasn't much to begin with in your material. I think the most prudent think to do is to check some extract (aqueous, alcoholic whatever) under UV; I believe it to be almost impossible for harmalas to be there and not fluoresce. Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here! Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!
|
|
|
omnia sunt communia!
Posts: 6024 Joined: 29-Jul-2009 Last visit: 29-Oct-2021
|
If you take a look at the literature I attached in the E. umbellata workspace you'll see that the %alk is incredibly low. Like sub 1% for the total alkaloid content (consisting of like three or four main alkaloids iirc), with each alkaloid being somewhere around .2-.3%. I did not get any results until I started working with much larger quantities of material. Additionally, it is worth noting that there is no harmine/harmaline, afaik, in E. umbellata or E. angustifolia. Wiki • Attitude • FAQThe Nexian • Nexus Research • The OHTIn New York, we wrote the legal number on our arms in marker...To call a lawyer if we were arrested. In Istanbul, People wrote their blood types on their arms. I hear in Egypt, They just write Their names. גם זה יעבור
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 14191 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 28-Nov-2024 Location: Jungle
|
I think due to the hydroxide group in harmalol, it's going to be quite water soluble, so it will probably stay behind when precipitating harmalas, but yeah as others said it seems to be in very low amounts. Also, harmol and harmalol are formed in the body when consuming harmine and harmaline (source: jordi riba talk at psychedelic conference in amsterdam)
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 473 Joined: 07-Aug-2011 Last visit: 10-Jan-2014
|
The real issue here is it's has a dipolar ion state just like bufotenine. Base treat-ment will deprotonate that arylhydroxyl group forming a phenolate like ion. Best bet would be column chromatography to obtain a sample and see if it can be worked with in other ways.
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 580 Joined: 16-Jun-2009 Last visit: 15-Nov-2017 Location: Everywhere and nowhere
|
For reference I am looking specifically for norharman/harmalol, primarily due to norharman's KYNA metabolite inhibiting effects (kynurenic acid).
It's a very good target for nootropic cognition enhancement.
Thanks guys, this info is very good, exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for.
|