This is something been pondering for a long time I can’t quite figure out. As perfect as the world and the universe is, it seems the only flaw in nature is within ourselves. For some reason, it is in our nature to become addicted to things , destroy ourselves and our surroundings, constantly render ourselves blind... Example, often I notice in myself theres things I should be doing that would be beneficial, but there's always that inner pull to go towards distractions and do something unproductive and something that would put me out of balance instead. Learned only through a strict discipline am I able to ignore the urges (wants) of the ego and go towards the needs of the soul. Our world is built on ego and trying to satisfy it, which is impossible. We are taught from day one, the key to happiness and being accepted is through money, material goods, sex, marriage, college education...Were all given this downwards spiral roadmap that usually leads to nowhere/possibly the illusion of happiness, and if you don’t follow this roadmap you risk alienation which I have very gladly accepted. Instead of a society built on love, unity, individuality, creativity… we live in a society built on ego and only a few like us are able to break free. When the ego is calmed/dissolved like through taking psychedelics, these “wants” loose all their value, and we realize and see the things that are really important in life and gain a higher respect for them like nature for example. But nooo nature is not important esp to the ones in power, which sadly are some of the most ego driven of us all, cause of another flaw of the ego is its lust for power. One of the things thats different from us and nature is nature takes only what it needs keeping the planet in balance, it is in our nature to take nature and ourselves out of balance. If “God” created such perfection why do you guys think also exists this one thing that destroys the perfection?

well personally- although it sounds very pessimistic at first without going into detail- to me it seems pretty likely that we're suffering from a form of epigenetic brain damage

I've often wondered this myself and it can definitely be discouraging. But I don't think the problem is innately our nature, I think it's been conditioned into us. Maybe it's a product of evolution, but we live in a society which is fueled by the ego--I don't think an individual is to blame, as no individual is inherently "evil" or seeking to cause harm. Circumstance however, social conditioning, culture, etc...may play a role.
I've been reading through a book recommended by a nexus member by Eckhart Tolle. I just finished a section where he discusses the difference between the self and the mind, our identification with the ego and our neuroses, and how this can lead us to compulsive and destructive behavior.


I think that too many people are being controlled by their ego, and they mistake their ego for true self. The key is tuning into the present moment and being fully aware, only then will you feel the radiant beauty of your own innate existence and all of the bliss that comes with it.

One of our greatest flaws as a species is the unspoken belief of the majority that we are superior to and separate from nature/the universe

yes this illusion of separateness from nature, the universe and ourselves is one of our greatest flaws. This is why i think one of the only ways a society can be in in harmony with nature the universe and ourselves is a society that has psychedelics based in its culture, like in tribes, because the psychedelics dissolve these boundaries of separateness. Vtseeker yes we are def conditioned into condoning these very destructive patterns of behavior but the tendancies are always there no matter what which is what im trying to figure out why. Those look like very interesting books imma read them, thanks

Exactly!

People forget that we are animals. We carry a lot of evolutionary baggage. These were things that allowed us to live in a more primitive time. The desires of the ego that the OP mentioned are all products of the lower brain areas (the reptilian, mammalian, etc.). The quest for power and money are status which comes originally from the basic pecking order of the society is caused mostly by the mammalian brain. The tendency towards violence and aggression come from the reptilian brain.

One problem with out society is, vested interests have marketed to us this image of a white picket fence in suburbia with a happy smiling family, money, and cars. They gave us the image that, "Yeah, that's what life is about." But life has never been about that!! The only thing that ever matters is the interactions with your loved ones, and hopefully that you can leave the world a bit better place because of your existence.

Once you start to look, its easy to see the bad sides of humanity are a result of these lower forms of consciousness we all have as a part of us. Unfortunately, a lot of people are lost and pretty much asleep. They have this hole in them created by a soulless society that they constantly try to fill with material things, but it never can be.

Fortunately, we have not destroyed ourselves yet. There is hope. If you read literature from pre-1990 most of the intellectual minds were terrified of nuclear holocaust because they knew the more primitive people in power were in control of the bombs. But we got though that, to hopefully not worry about it (we've at least had more than two solid decades).

So that's the big problem, as I see it, of forgetting our connection to nature (along with protecting the environment, of course). Once we as a species recognize our animal traits, we can better avoid the problems created by them.

yeh thats very interesting theory that could def explain it. Left over monkey, and reptilian influence like in Casteneda's work. Things cannot continue as they are forever. WE need to evolve past this primordial state were in. Psychadelics are here for a reason. we just lost our way, if psychedelics become part of society they will help us find the way home and nature and man will be in harmony once again . I had a vision on the peak of one of most intense experiences that all history and the garbage that came with it was sort of necessary to give birth to new forms of creativity n technology needed to push us into this new state of evolution, it is in natures tendency to be in harmony and thats where heading. The good comes with the bad, now we need to sort of harness the good and weed out the bad which i see is slowly happening, i have high hopes for the future

It's the most likely theory I've heard. I like your idea about psychedelics helping us reach a higher plane. It's poetic. I like Terrence McKenna's thoery about how mushrooms helped in the evolution of apes to humans, and it would sure be something if they helped us again!

But even if you don't take the evolution route, it makes a lot of sense that these bad human traits are lower forms of consciousness. I really hope humanity can overcome them. I see hope and a lot of things that worry me, but that's probably how things have always been.

Why is it in our nature to destroy ourselves?

It isn't in our nature to do this. You may be confusing living suboptimaly with a self destructive nature.
The former encompasses ( amongst other things) vice, laziness, envy and discontent, the latter would imply that the majority of humanity was suicidal, psychopathic, murderous, sadistic etc, which is evidently not the case as relating to the broad spectrum of humanity.

Our true nature is the perpetuation of our own DNA, in order for this to take place in the most efficient way possible, we have to be endowed with qualities of SELF PRESERVATION, not destruction! Nature provided us with the bio-chemical pathways in order to perpetuate our selfish DNA .

Preservation of the species does not universaly mean optimisation of the species. The Power elite have capitalised on this concept in order to preserve their own power base and indulge in a ( barely) clandestine program of eugenics,

exactly, only this time if happens instead of mushrooms got the feeling it might be more through dmt/ayahuasca

a very good question.

I think this is a good argument against creation.
Why would would be created with such obvious debilitating flaws, if we were created with such complex systems in our bodies,and brilliant and capable brains? Whats the point?

Why is that we can understand right and wrong, and point out these flaws, when we can't understand half of what goes on in our brain?

Perhaps we made it this far in this game known as 'life' because of these flaws, this is what worked to survive, this is what were stuck with.

We need a 'drive' to accomplish great things. Capitalism can actually create that drive.

life is cruel.

Very well said,
The example I brought up earlier about the cold war supports this, as we didn't destroy the world with nuclear weapons (I realize it's still possible, but seems much less likely than before). It goes to show we can avoid total destruction of ourselves. The main problem is the fact that we can see long term, but are wired to favor short term goals/fixes. The short term view often wins out in our perspectives.



I know what you mean, but don't discount mushrooms. They are actually a subtype of DMT, as well. Very similar in many ways. To me, mushrooms have a huge sense of humor, that DMT lacks. Humor is far more important than it gets credit for. Think about some of the most miserable people you've met. I'm willing to bet they have nearly no sense of humor.


I see where you're coming from, but it could be argued that we were given these flaws to learn to overcome them. There's no good stories without conflict!

Hi! I seem to have stumbled upon a quite unique group of people here, and I'm glad. I love the tone and feel here! Cheers!

Your post resonated with what I've been thinking about lately... I don't think it's our default nature to be destructive, I think it is something sleepy people allow themselves to sink into and it seems to me that it has to do with the energy of want. When you do something you want to do that is good, the reward is that it feels good. If we feel good then what does oneness feel? I guess a demon feels good doing shitty things so...your mileage may vary... :-)

Will and emotion are connected, will and energy are one and the same. One must will oneself to be constructive rather than destructive otherwise there is no energy transferred... The engine of nature is that of destructive creation. The flip side of that is creative destruction (cancer?). I dunno... I really don't want to think about earth as a loosh farm LOL... Anyway cheers to all of you and nice to meet you.

You should definitely look into Hindu philosophy. I recommend starting with the Bhagavad Gita.

What you're talking about is called Maya(illusion). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_%28illusion%29 Sex, money, sensual pleasures, we all strive for these thinking they would make us happy, but the it's only an illusory happiness which ends with us wanting more. The goal of Hinduism is to break free from this illusion and find God through meditation or studying under a guru.

i don't believe psychedelics pushed you to see this. i believe this is something thats been with us all along and the moment of indulgence is an ultimatum to this finding, self destruction. i believe your lying to yourself, perhaps, that psychedelics brought you to this finding. beware of partaking once more for it may destroy you. always be grateful for what you have and take each day as a blessing to give and receive.
i believe we've been blessed since we were born. it is in our nature to have a sense of unity and generosity. when these good things come back our way it is of the best feeling. be careful and tread lightly

I don't think anyone has argued that psychedelics do this for you. To me, psychedelics are a tool. They can help guide you to a higher consciousness, and perhaps allow you to find some kind of peace. I used to have what I thought were real breakthroughs, only to find them hollow when I returned to normal. They never just hand you anything, at least not anything of real value. I thought early on they might, but after a while I realized that at the minimum, they give you a riddle, and often they show you a riddle of seemingly infinite complexity. It's up to the tripper to still do the work.

Evolution. I really want to know the influence our subconscious has and where it comes from. We are evolving, I do not doubt that we will finally come around to transcendence through technology like Kurzweil implies. We will merge technology with this experience in our brains. We will utilize it, we will live on an anarchist UFO and live through quantum mechanics, once people know it will be thoroughly adopted. Right now, we are just going through the motions. We will figure out sustainability and over many years we will become one.

Here's a couple of videos from the great Robert Sapolsky at Stanford discussing such issues:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0Oa4Lp5fLE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKNAzl-XN4I

The entire series is well worth watching.

Buddhists refer to the cycle of creation and destruction, as samsara.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%83s%C4%81ra

Samsara can be more literally translated to death and rebith, but the philosophies and reasoning concerning does apply to just the general concept of all destruction and creation.

Basically Buddhism is an elaborate scheme to escape samsara. The entire religion is centered around the question of why does one go in cycles, and how can it be stopped.

Not that I'm saying be a Buddhist (I'm not a Buddhist), but I've found it valuable to familiarize myself with old contexts on subjects I've pondered about. Gaining some understanding about the structures of Buddhism, and the more specifics of how and why they do what they do I think can fill in alot of blanks about why humanity goes in cycles.

not saying they did, these ideas are just connections i made, the actual vision i described was possibly the singularity, heres brief trip report



So as screwed up as it sounds this ego and its flaws like mindillusion described were perhaps necessary, that we needed this drive for reproduction, competition, innovation to create these new forms of creativity/technology. Like said before the good comes with the bad, much like in say an aya trip u must go through the darkness to reach the light, and i think mybe now we are just starting to reach the edge of the horizon. Along with this technology is the spread of psychedelics. Most of us here would not be familiar with dmt if it weren't for technology-the internet. Thats what meant peabody with dmt/aya, mushrooms will surely also play there part, n very interesting btw never thought of how you describe they relate to humor , but before only few years ago was like ayahuasca barely heard of out Peru n Ecuador now look how known dmt and aya are and growing everyday. Slowly as the psychedelics spread we are coming closer, The psychedelics connect us back with nature and like said by a few on this thread our biggest flaw is the illusion of separateness from it, ourselves, and the universe. The illusion needs to fade. Kind of like another vision i had on aya, roots growing out of humans into network of roots engulfing the entire planet, which i believe is the planet consciousness, and this network is only growing, for a global awakening to occur more need to be awakened. I have no idea what will happen and if a singularity will happen what form it will take, but i know things must change and that we are moving in a positive direction, only time will tell..