Thankyou Guyomech
for your mature and deft diffusion of a heated discussion that was spiraling.

You know, this place, (Nexus) looks 'all wrong' when Mods and Senior members go at it like this! I can only imagine what the Seedlings, young ones and the lurking 'Guests' are thinking when they come across threads like this.
Sure we don't have to read them but often, we do.

It wasn't pleasant watching the religious threads go awry and the prophets drummed out of town (although I understand why)... and this (here) is kind of the same.

We can all have our political views and cherish them internally...do they 'have' to spill out onto these hallowed pages?

I would like to echo calls for a 'No Religion, No Politics' policy here at this fine University...for the sake of harmony.

As a small contribution to this thread;
Maybe...just maybe...Jaques Fresco at the Venus Project
http://www.thevenusproje...com/jacque-fresco/resume
has some sound reasoning and alternative ways forward for our broken world.

Merry Christmas to you ALL

We take the steps that we feel are necessary to create the world we want to live in amidst the crumbling wreckage of the world in which we currently exist. This may sound lofty, but really, it's not. This looks like squats and really really free markets, free clinics and food programs, free schools and relief organizations, community outwatch...it looks like organized resistance to ecological destruction and other corporate-state tyranny.

The funny thing about this is that all of these things have been done before (and some of them are being done right now). Projects like these get significant community support/buy-in because they address the immediate needs of communities. The only reason these programs get shut down (if they do) is because they challenge the the tenets of the State and Capital. What's really interesting is that, afaik, most anarchist or similar sociopolitical systems have not collapsed from within, but have been crushed from the outside (examples range from indigenous societies to revolutionary Spain), further emphasizing the tyranny of the State.

The industrial paradigm that we're presently surrounded by cannot go on forever. It's that simple. This global industrial model will collapse, whether it's because people realize its cost and do what's necessary to stop it, or because it continues to run on the "infinite growth" model of economic logic until the wheels come off doesn't make a huge difference at this point. Either way, it's coming down.

The "slow, incremental improvement" you are claiming to exist still begs the questions of earlier: who are you talking about? Who is experiencing slow incremental improvements? Average wages and benefits have stagnated and shrunk, the height of "improvement" in this system was some 40+ years ago.

The ecological catastrophe wrought on this planet is at its worst point in global history (150-200 species go extinct every day), the global economic house of cards is teetering because no one is willing to acknowledge that Greece and Spain (and elsewhere) cannot survive on austerity. That austerity is coming to the U.S. soon, in the form of "budget cuts" that will remove the already tattered social safety nets that reflect infinitesimally small pieces of the budget to begin with. There are unprecedented amounts of repressive legislation being passed by the US and world governments (NDAA and the last several executive orders in the US, and squatting is being seriously criminalized throughout the EU...to say nothing of the new "free trade" agreements like TPSEP that are being drafted by corporations and private interests, outside of legislators grasp and to the detriment of workers in this system).

Improvements? I just don't see them. At least not for the majority of human beings on this planet. Any improvements being enjoyed by a small global minority do not justify keeping this system in place, regardless of the comfort and benefits it provides those who reap its rewards. What the alternatives look like depends on the place and people invested in creating those alternatives, but they exist, have existed historically, and can be achieved. All we can do is attempt to put our visions into action. Imo, to not try is not an option.

Snozz, I can't disagree with any of that.

Cyb, I appreciate your sentiments. But it would be very tough to ban all religion/politics talk here, for a number of reasons. For example, this thread may seem like a discussion on politics, but it's really more about trying to fix this broken world so we can move on together as a species- a dream that most psychonauts share. And religion... Well, that's hard to steer clear of in a forum where members are discussing their godhead experiences.

Mostly, I think we just need to keep our tone and delivery in mind. If you disagree with someone and want to make a point, it needs to be stated in a way that is attractive to listen to. Otherwise it's just fighting, which obviously doesn't benefit anyone but the trolls.

A worthy dream...I wonder if it will ever be realized while the monetary system is in play...unfortunately, I tend to think not

I'm pretty cynical about it too. But it's a worthwhile discussion to have, albeit somewhat challenging at times.

I dont have the vocabulary or the writing skills to express myself in english as i would like, but i would like to put a few thoughts on this anyway.

I also think that discussions as this one are maybe necessary (or not) and beneficial to us personally to exchange our views and to get to know each other better.But that would be it, when it comes to changing the world with words.My philosophy was always that the individual deeds in personal life are the ones that change the world directly.

Words may or may not change the view of a person, most often not. But when we experience something directly it is much deeply engraved in our brains.My point is that discussions like this will not do much, our personal deeds in life will, on the other hand. To be careful about consumerism, not give ourself to negative emotions which influence our thinking, to love unconditionaly . If we reflect these things on other people than i think we did a very good job.

Every change is a process, even taking down the corrupt system by force and re building a new society would take decades maybe. I think spreading awareness is the most natural one, and effective for sure.