In New delhi, protesters have clashed with the police for the second day. New delhi is often being refered to as 'rape capital' of india, and the people are fed-up with this lawlessness. Especially after an incident in a citybus where a women was raped by more than a dozen men and ended up in hospital, almost dead. Her boyfriend was beaten on the head with a metal pipe when he tried to protect her from this horrible violence. Only after protests broke out, a few people have been arrested. The people are so angry about having to live in fear that they´re demanding all rapists will get the death penalty now.

Many people just don´t know how lucky they are and fortunately for them they never will.

I know i won´t convince any hard-core anarchist with this. Just as you won´t convince any hard-core republican about legalising drugs with facts and arguments, or people who deny climate change.

But a little disagreemant every now and then is good for the soul. Keeps fringe community´s from becoming sectarian.

Polytrip... Anarchy as established by people like Emma Goldman had NOTHING to do with violence, rape or murder and they were very publicly opposed to that sort of thing. It was not lawless chaos. It was about basic human rights and not about anything goes.

I guess you think unions were a bad idea too? We got unions because of anarchists.

I and most here also do not live in New Delhi. There and places like it you can also pay the police off and be hassled by them untl you pay them..they base laws on dogmatic religious values often and women have no rights becasue of the laws in place and religious ideas.

You can not generalize laws being good becasue of this or bad becasue of that. Thats such a gross oversimplification..and like I said that's New Delhi not the USA, not UK not Canada etc.

Obviously there is good use of laws at times and then horrible misuse of that power. There is a lot of that misuse. If you only point to some isolated places like this and try to call out anyone who opposes laws in a place like America I just dont see you having much of an arguement to make..sure, there is crazy shit that goes on in the east..we all know that.

I think you polarize things too much. Anarchism is against the concept of state, not against the concept of law. What would differ is the implementation of the law.

Also, most people reacting with their gut against the law do so because of unfair laws. The fact law is often prostituted according to corporate and state interests doesn't make the very concept of law a bad thing, and we should presume most people is perfectly able to understand that.

I know a few people who call themselves anarchists but inevitably make use of our roads, power grids, etc; and most importantly, the overall sense of law and order that protects them from daily violence.

I like to point my finger at rural Afghanistan, where each patch of dirt is ruled by whomever is best armed, by whatever guidelines each of these warlords deems appropriate from moment to moment. As in New Delhi, the night is ruled by rapists.

Our law is flawed, yes. But it's what we've got, and as a father of a young child I would never want to live in a world ruled by violent strength alone. That would be sheer hell. In the meantime, we do what we can to change the law when possible... And we continue to ignore the unjust laws to whatever extent we can. To accept this as a tradeoff for relative peace and liberty is a small price.

It would probly do people good to study the history of anarchy and especially people like Emma goldman if they want to throw this term around. It has NOTHING to do with little angry punk rock kids mad at their parents who want to break stuff. Thats just a cliche that seems popular.

Both of these assertions beg the question "for who?" This system utilizes daily violence to enforce its hierarchy. "Law and order" is only established through coercion and the threat of violence, which is a daily practice.

If you don't pay your rent, or for food or clothing, armed agents of the state show up and, at the point of a gun, you do what you're told. Thus you work a job or find other means to obtain money to pay for food/clothes/shelter. You (generally) can't choose to live somewhere where there is no rent, because decades to centuries ago, people violently claimed the land for themselves and turned the commons into "private property."

The other thing is, the assertion "I would never want to live in a world ruled by violent strength alone" raises tremendous questions, in my mind, as to what you feel rules the world currently. For the global minority, generally situated in the "first world," our comfort, our rule of law, our system...is predicated on the violent force exerted worldwide through global capitalism and industrialization.

The "relative peace and liberty" in our society depends largely on what what subsection of our society you are talking about...it's woefully absent for large groups of social and economic classes.

Also, what jamie said re:anarchism.

And why isn´t that crazy shit going on where you live? Why isn´t vancouver like new delhi? Maybe because there are cop´s, DA´s and judges that don´t take bribes. Maybe because there IS something like the rule of law. Maybe, all it would take to turn your world into those 'isolated places', is the absence of those very cop´s that some wish didn´t exist.

Ever heard of the phrase 'be carefull what you wish for?'. But wishes are seldom rational, i know....just bless yourself for there being no fairy´s with magic wonds.

Armed agents of the state routinely ransack the homes of many people to imprison them for non violent "offenses". Police do not serve to stop crime, they serve to protect the interests of the wealthy and elite by undermining social change in developed countries and engaging in bribery extortion and slavery in developing countries where the costs of middle class developed world living are shifted to.

sounds right ,its not that bad only the body dies , the soul lives on , becoming a soul after losing their bodies rapists will get a chance to redeem themselves and be born again

i went to a party yesterday where everything was awesome until one single fool had to get too drunk and start trying to molest a girl (that too right in the midle of the dance floor ) seeing this i and a lot of people were angered , somehow the situation resolved itself quickly but the anger provoked kept me reading religious text with increased furiosity over the next couple of hours after coming back from the party

i wanted to beat this foolish person for offending this girl , somehow the situation did not get out of control and this fool was soon out of the party , yet i am sick of such things happening ,

some human beings are not humans anymore , why should they not be punished with death , if the society can butcher innocent plants , trees , animals , cows , chicken , meat , poultry , what is so special about humans ?

life is life , it means the same thing to an ant , tree , cat , dog , human ,

we are All living beings , yet if we can bucther animals & plants why not the rapists be killed ?

to me an ant and the human is same ,

So what are you sugesting? That people would stop working for money and just take whatever they want? That the lawlessness that unfortunately exists in some of america´s getto´s would become the standard to the rest of the country? And how would that improve anything for anybody?

Maybe you just wish for a system to collapse because you can go to bed, not worrying about what would happen if it would actually happen.

I know what rules the world. In the deprived areas of the world it´s violence. In the first world, it´s the self-discipline of the majority of the people.
It´s not theft or slavery, because that has been existant throughout the history of man, and in that case somalia or uganga would be the wealthiest nations on earth. It´s a disgrace that western companies take advantage of the existance of slavery in some nations, but as these are soevereign nations, it´s definately a disgrace also that those nations allow for slavery to exist within their borders.

But the fact that so many people are upset about slavery reveals one unique thing about western civilisation, and it´s not slavery. That has always existed everywhere and still exists in many places where it is mostly for domestic use and not that much for western consumers. Western civilisation is the first civilisation to ever abollish slavery.
And it is that spirit that lead to that abollishment that is responsible for the wealth of western nations.

The more that spirit is present, the wealthier a nation will be.
That´s also why america is less wealthy than denmark, and why less triggerhappy idiots commit mass murder at schools in denmark than in america.

Denmark is a very well ordered society and therefore less violent, wealthier, healthier and happier than america. America is more well ordered than russia or mexico and therefore less violent, wealthier, healthier and happier than those nations, etc.

It´s that thing..self-discipline and inner civilisation, not enforced by the point of a gun, but freely exercised by people because they know that in case that it would be nessecary, those policemen with guns are there to protect them.

From the above comment I'd like to point out that in america, a 20% of women have been victims of rape or attempted rape. it's not an uncommon thing anywhere.

Your comment shows that ignorance truly is bliss my friend. Unfortunately though, you don´t know how lucky you are.

rapists are sexually deprived individuals. why are they sexually deprived? because religion in india and all over the world separate men from women and both from god. if you call for the death penalty you are perpetuating a violent way. as violent as the idea that a man is superior to a female. as violent as the idea that one has the right to tell people how to live their life.

and as violent as the idea that you have the right to kill an animal because you are hungry. thousands of cheap and healthy vegetarian products in the supermarket shelfs, thousands of instructions on the internet on how to life a healthy vegetarian life, yet ape man chooses to kill a fellow animal, because his Neanderthal ancestors lived the same way.

i say better choose a non violent way, don't kill ape man. it's just that the other ape man told him to stay away from women, because they are supposed to be inferior. tell him how to extract the spice or where to buy some acid and he'll do fine.

anarchy +1, because i love the law. do what thou wilt, that's the whole law.

I beg your pardon, but that is one of the silliest arguments I have read in this community.

Rapists rape because are sexually deprived? Really? Have you studied criminal psychology? Have you really given this some serious thought?

Or maybe another question. How many women did you rape the periods you were sexually deprived, and separated from them? Because I can tell you I spent years deprived and without women nearby, and I did not rape anyone.

And what does god have to do with this? Rape has to do with control. Lack of empathy for women. Understanding the victim as an object for your control and gratification, like a predator would do. Most rapists usually have a regular sex life. Do you really think the reasons behind rape crime are sex deprivation, and not having contact with women?

I completely sympathize with your message of respect and non violence, but I think you're dead wrong in your understanding of rape.

And my apologies to all, I don't intend to derail the thread. If Ufostrahlen wants to discuss further about this, he's more than welcome to PM me.

@vodsel: oh, the confusion of the semantics. replace sexually by love and it all makes sense

I know that if you replace "sex" with "love" (even if they are quite different things) the idea might seem to make more sense because we often explain crime with absence of guidance or affection, but it's still an oversimplification. Psychopaths are not only made, they are also born. Rapists and killers are not only always a by-product of abuse or neglect. Empathy can be taught, but not everyone will return what they receive.

Believe me, very close people to me have been raped and the mentality of a rapist cannot be simply explained like that, or simplified to that extent. Control is the word.

LOL

here we go again

I'm beautiful in my way 'Cause God makes no mistakes I'm on the right track, baby I was born this way
Don't hide yourself in regret Just love yourself and you're set I'm on the right track, baby I was born this way, born this way
Ooh, there ain't no other way, baby, I was born this way Baby, I was born this way Ooh, there ain't no other way, baby, I was born this way I'm on the right track, baby, I was born this way

Read more: LADY GAGA - BORN THIS WAY LYRICS

edit: this is my way of saying: maybe you are right. i have no words anymore.

Good hint, the next time I don't feel like debating something I'll just fetch a few tongue in cheek lyrics so we can all have a nice laugh, no matter if we are discussing law and rape or a recipe for christmas pudding

I'm off.

The slave trade is alive and well in america in terms of sex workers (and prisoners who are essentialy slave laborers), we simply have outsourced the majority of slave labor (south east asians working in oil fields to power our vehicles)


Also I DO know how lucky I have it, the system we have is atrocious and not sustainable. Thinking otherwise is absurd.