Just wanted to ask the chemists:
Do you have a rough/definitive time it takes for alkaloids to migrate to a NPS?
ie. Is it on contact? or like a slow 'magnetic drift'?

(this would clear up some of the timing issues of agitation when pulling.)

Also while you're here:

What is the optimal time for a base to 'break down' the cell walls in the plant material?
again is it on contact or a slow 'dissolving' process?

Thanks in advance

Most will happen pretty quickly, but the longer you leave it, the more efficient it will be, because the reaction rate will slow as it nears completion.

I imagine polar migration should be quite fast at room temp or slightly higher temps with plenty of agitation. Its basically like stirring two soluble liquids together - doesnt take very long to become homogenized.

However, because alkaloids are generally somewhat soluble in both polar and nonpolar solvent (ie they dont precipitate out of nonpolar solvent when you remove a proton, they just become MORE soluble in a polar solvent than the nonpolar solvent they would already be in, in an A/B) there is a sort of uneven tug of war going on, where the water always wins...But it takes the water time to win every molecule...longer than mixing say water and vinegar, or water and food coloring for that matter. But I dont think it would take much longer. Just remember this- the more agitation and and higher temperature, the more thorough the reaction will be per given amount of time. If you let it sit on the counter for 4 hours, or you heat it in a water bath with constant agitation for 4 hrs, the latter will be far closer to 100% efficiency.

Exactly how long until you have say...98% completion? No idea. The above is all I could say. Maybe someone else knows some equations that will give you a rough reaction rate based on concentration.

Breaking down the cell wall with an acid however, will probably take much longer and would be much more profitable to do over a day or so with constant or occasional agitation and heat.

I prefer to lyse cell walls mechanically however. Soak your bark in water to get maximum turgor pressure (water pressure in cells via osmosis) for maybe a day. Then freeze/thaw it a couple times.

Because water is less dense as a solid than a liquid (a unique property), it expands as it freezes, and the sharp ice crystals have no problem slicing through the rigid cellulosic cell wall. Time wont matter with this. When its frozen its frozen. I do it twice.

Nice concise answer: Ta muchly...info integrated.

the reaction is first order, but that doesn't tell you anything, neither will the rate, because it's solvent dependent. different solvents have different solvating efficiencies.
it's also somewhat temperature-relative, but not so much for solvents with a similar octanol/water partition coefficient (xlogp) as your solute. there's no need to heat certain solvents because the solute is so soluble in them, solvation occurs immediately

That's got me thinking...

Would there be such a substance as a safe marker/contrast dye? (as in brain MRI)
One that would be placed in the lye/base mix (attached to an alkaloid or molecule) and then seen in the NPS as it migrated...
(not the usual yellow color)

This way it would be evident when the NPS is saturated.

Just thinking out loud...

nothing that would be selective to dmt.
p-dmab forms an adduct at the C-2 of indole, so anything with an indole backbone will be complexed.

You're a walking encyclopedia benz...how do you fit that grey matter inside your skull...?

one thing I forgot to mention: p-dmab requires acidic solution to form the complex, so it wouldn't even work under the conditions of free base phase transfer to the NPS (non-polar solvent).

an alternate method would be to expose the biphase to UV light, but make sure your NPS doesn't absorb in the UV spectrum. Either light naphtha or dcm should be ok, but xylene absorbs. DMT in NPS glows greenish under UV light. the intensity is directly proportional to the concentration.

Bump for the newcomers.

Im curious as to what you mean by this. I have UV LED's with a Peak Wave Length of (nm) : 380 ~ 400. Could I shine my light into my already mixed naphtha to see how saturated it is? Im confused by the light being absorbed into the NPS. More or less curious because I love learning new things and this interests me. I have a light fetish I guess lol.

Thanks for your response and btw great thread to bump cyb!

bump