So, a few nights ago, I had myself some 10x salvia, and a nice little pipe. I weighed out around 40mgs, and threw that in the pipe.
Smoked it up, and, barely got anything. My mouth was a little numb/tingly. I could sense it was there, but, no where near enough.

Now, I've read the dosing guide, a few times over. And, according to that, I'm doing everything just right.

But..
I've also read in places, that some brands of salvia extract are a little less than advertised. It says on my package, 40mgs of salvinorin A per gram. Which, is the total size of the pack.
It also says Standardized , on the package too.


Now, I'm not claiming they're actually true with their 'best you'll ever find' slogan, I mean.. who doesn't say that. But, I've smoked this same brand, 20x, with out weighing before.. and that, well.. let's just say that made me question salvia for years to come. I've only now recently grown the courage to test these waters, yet again.
This time, a little lightlier.(At least, in the begining)

The brand name, ( I really don't think this breaks any of the forum rules, but, please let me know if it does) Ecstacy, seems to have had a website at one point in time, http://www.ecstacyinc.com , but it's not up for sale. Seems like this brand name may have gone under?
They've had the same packaging for ever. There's little butterflies you can pop out of the casing, because, well.. you know.?

So, I guess, do you guys think this salvia.. might be a little under saturated? A little bit less than 40mgs per gram, as advertised? Just a stray batch? Maybe it's been sitting around in this shop, for god knows how long? Maybe even another shop beforehand, with the same name?

And, to state the obvious, yes, I'm going to try out more, in higher doses. Very soon. Tonight, possibly.

Another note. When I noticed that the bowl I had just packed wasn't doing much of anything, besides giving me a awesomly numb mouth, I decided to pack another bowl, with 30mgs in it. Smoked that as quick as I could, and.. that's when, I guess I could feel things, I could feel it, juuust barely.
I didn't know what to make of that, so I just decided to wait it out. Try again another night.

40mg of real 10x salvia would be a strong dose. You would definitely feel that.

I suggest to buy leafs and do your own extract its so easy and very fast. This way you know exactly what you got.

What smokerx said...

although the only real way to standardize salvia extract properly would be extracting pure salvinorin and then infusing leaf, since you cannot be completely sure of the exact amount of actives per gram of plain leaf.

The standard math says 1 g of leaf = 2,5 mg of salvinorin aprox, so in 1 g of 10x you would have some 25 mg. According to this, and the label in your extract, that extract would be more like 16x, so go figure.

But if you tried 40mg smoking properly (properly burned, holding smoke long, etc) and it didn't turn out as it should, you can certainly increase the dose a little. Just don't increase it a lot.

Just to add from my experience. I made 12x salvia , put 30mg in my bong and got my ars kicked big time I am laughing now but I was not then

So as Vodsel said try a bit more but do not overdo it. Be careful it is a powerful plant.

I've been thinking about that.. smokerx. I like working with my own herbs, and plant materials, instead of just buying extracts and such.
I'm even thinking about just growing my own plants. I've got a few others I'm keeping my eyes on, and hoping to gather some seeds soon, to get a jump on the winter months.
Salvia could be a great addition.
I'll definitly look into dfferent methods of extracting.
I like being exact.. alot more than just being easy.

And Vodsel, you make some good points. You can't be exactly sure, with any given leaves. Unless of course, you extract only pure salvinorin.

And yea.. the whole labeling thing.. and the proper formulas that we all go by, just don't seem to add up quite right. I'll figgure this out.. eventually.

I'm.. not quite sure about that proper burning method. All I really did was touch the flame of my regular lighter to the bowl, and once it caught, I pulled it off, and just let it cherry.
Definitly held it in long enough. At least thirty seconds or so.
Let me know if I could do anything better in that scenario. Like, torching the salvia a little more.

Smokerx, I just saw your additional post.
It's good to hear you actually made your own, and , how well it worked.

And, I won't. I already over did it once.. and that, wow. Never again.
I'll probably weigh out 50mgs this time. Ten more than originally used.

--

And, I did some more research on this company. I ended up finding out that they now make, 'cigarettes'. Herbal. Non-nicotine, no tobacco. All exotic herbals.
Sounds almost like the synthetic weeds they're selling, minus the nasty chems.

Definitely torch it more

As Vodsel suggested, the extract is probably much weaker than advertised.

There is no standard definition for the term “standardized” when applied to salvia extracts, so it really doesn’t mean anything. In order to make a claim that an extract contains a specific amount of salvinorin A, one would have to obtain pure salvinorin A and add it to leaf from which all the salvinorin A had been previously removed. This would be a very time-consuming and expensive process – something that wouldn’t likely be profitable for a typical salvia vendor.

If the gram you have indeed contained 40mg salvinorin A, then a dose of about 25mg would produce a fairly intense experience.

Also be aware of the “reverse tolerance” effect that is common with salvia. Effects become more pronounced with increasing frequency of use, so be conservative when increasing your dose.

As has been said, it’s best to grow and extract your own.

Thanks gibran, that clears a few things up.
I've never quite understood why some are labeled 'standardized', and others arn't. I even know of vendors who sell **x extract, 'standard' and regular. Not mentioning any difference either.
I'll take that term with a grain of salt, from now on.

And that, is clear as a bell. 1mg per 25mg, sounds right to me.
And, I smoked 40mg, with little to no effects. Some numbers wern't added correctly. (on their part)

Since I've shown up here, 'grow your own' has slowly, but surely, built its' way up in these forums. I'm glad I got to come here, right before it really started coming on strong. So, I could see the actual cause and effect. Not that I'm enjoying the problems it's unintentionally made, at all. It's given me a chance to see it all. And, to see how passionate everyone here really is.
It's really rubbed off on me.
Before I know it, I'm going to have my own little garden.
Thanks.



Duly noted.

If you are just using a bic lighter - try holding the flame on the leaf the entire time. It needs a very hot temperature to get all the actives out. Just cherry-ing is not typically a good method for inhalation in my experience. I use a water pipe with ice in it and a torch lighter - works very well :-)

Good luck!!

Everything has already been said. Grow/extract your own, hold the flame on it the entire inhale, etc.

Just don't buy Salvia extract. I actually tell people not to at this point. I want this plant to remain legal and I don't want to give any support to those who try to profit from it. At the very least, buy some plain leaf from a reputable vendor and work with that. Get to know the plant, even if you're not willing to invest the time into growing it yourself.

I hear you, Dioxippus. I'm never going to buy the extract again.

I'm really starting to turn the page, so to speak, on this whole, growing idea. With, everything.
When the moments right, I'm going to be buying quite a few seeds, and I'm going to be adding salvia to that list. For sure.

You're 100% correct, we don't need another senseless 'illegalization' of another plant. I think I will be steering clear of all extracts, from now on. Or.. at least the "brand" name ones. I know a few vendors who sell their own extracts. That seems a little better to me than, say "Ecstacy" brand salvia, or any other catchy named package. These vendors are seemingly self run. The owner, maybe a few employees, but.. no big business. Out to make profits of the world.

BUT, I might consider doing that AFTER I've grown my own plants, and tested out my own extracts.
I really love the idea of nurturing your own plant, making him what you want him to be. A full grown, strong, healthy plant.
Thanks for these words, Dioxippus, just another little bump into becoming self sufficient when it comes to all my herbal/psychedelic needs. Or, at least as self sufficient as I can become.




And thanks a bunch physics envy, just stating that simple fact, makes it a little clearer.
MORE HEAT! STAT!

I might actually use a water pipe like you, too. I have one, that also has an ice catcher. I have a real real small pipe I decided to buy with the extract, and, that little thing gets hoooot, real fast.



Sadly, I've yet to get back to business and test any more out. These last few nights have been, less than satisfactory, when it comes to mind alterers.
Soon, though!

You can't buy fertile seeds online. you have to buy cuttings or whole plants.

Wow, thanks for that. I had no idea.
I would have been looking for the completely wrong thing.

Well, scratch that, I'll add plant cuttings to the list.



Not quite right, if you couldn't tell.



*
On to cultivation!
Thanks everybody.

Salvia was the first plant I chose to grow, well other than mushrooms, but that's a fungus

She can be a bit temperamental at first, but once you get the plant established and acclimated it grows like crazy. I have six now from taking cuttings from my first mother. I have way more leaf than I'll ever need in my entire life, and I smoke it quite often. I've begun to experiment with quids more as well, which is really a much better overall experience with fresh leaf instead of dried.

Good luck with your botanical ventures! Always consider giving cuttings to the right friends who are interested to continue spreading this mysterious plant far and wide.

Thanks for the kind words, Dioxippus!

I have a few types of seeds on my waiting list, a nice spore print in hand, and some salvia cuttings on the list now too!
I'll have to look up more about her growing conditions, but, I won't give up.
And, that's wonderful to hear! Six plants, just from the mother? That's amazing. I hope mine will flourish, like yours is.
May I ask, what do you mean by, you smoke it quite often? Enough to actually trip into salvia space? Or, just, as a smoking item? Like, just for the sub-space effects?
Thinking about smoking salvia that often.. almost makes my mind fuzz.
And, quids are when you use the leaf, sublingually? Do you have to make an extract for that as well? Or is it just the leaves, pure and fresh? Don't explain to deep, if you don't want to, I'll look way more into it when the right time comes. I've seen quids around here alot, and it always sounds much better than just smoking.

And, thanks again for the good luck , I'll be sure to pick out just the right people, and ask them if they want to help spread this wonderful plant across our part of the country with me.

I mostly smoke it in small doses now. It helps keep depression and migraines at bay, and is a wonderful meditation aid. I used to smoke the extract several times a month, but as you said, that can make you a bit fuzzy I felt I was almost abusing it, using it that often. I use plain leaf in changa and on it's own. I almost always smoke or chew some plain leaf during my shroom trips. They marry very well together for me. As does ayahuasca and salvia. And by quids I do mean just fresh or dried plain leaf taken sublingually. No need for an extract, just a tolerance to the bitter taste the leaf has. An ability to make your gag reflex dormant is a good thing You do get used to it though. I found the fresh leaf much easier to quid than the rehydrated dried leaf. Was almost like chewing on spinach at first.

That's, great news! I never really thought it could help manage depression, and migranes.
I love learning new things/ways people use less than commom materials to help manage certain aspects of their lives.
That really increases my interest in this chemical/plant. I used to find it, slightly crazy, and just plain weird. Before I've had a chance to run into dmt. Now, I sort of see it more, like another plant. An aid, to our conscienceness. This chemical.. it's here for something. We may never find out exactly what that something is, but, it's still here. Waiting for us to use it.
And, that makes alot more sense now. . I seriously thought for a second, you were making your own extract, **x amount, and just smoking that quite frequently. But, just the leaf? That, I can totally understand. Well, not totally, but, you get what I mean.

And, using during mushroom trips, and ayahuasca journies, I'd never have even thought about it. In lower doses, so it wouldn't subtract from the other substances, that makes sense. And that, is quite intersting as well. I never really thought salvia could be mixed and matched with other mind alterers.
Sounds like it'd be quite the journey though! I'll have to keep that in mind once I start growing myself. No more store bought extract for me. (Or, at least, the mass produced ones.)
And, fresh leaf sounds like it would be many many times better than rehydrated dried leaves. That, just sounds like a bunch of dust, and crunchy leaves in your mouth. Mmmmm. But, fresh leaf, sounds alot more managable, and enjoyable. That bitter taste, meh. I'm sure I could get past it. I haven't been to far down the rabbit hole yet, when it comes to mind alterers/psychedelics as a whole, but, I've had a few run-ins with less than desirable tastes. I made a sinicuichi tea before.. and, wow.. that was horrendous. But, I decided, if I made this, and wanted to do it, then.. stop crying about the taste, and just drink it!
I think I'll get used to the taste of salvia leaves, just fine.

And, thanks for all the kind words everyone. This thread has guided me to the point of deciding to take up the responsibility of growing and taking care of my own plant.

When the time's right, I'll buy a cutting, and start this journey the right way!