Well, an infinite, omnipresent, endless "all is one" conception of G*d would be both the light & the dark... as well as a zillion things that lie outside of that photosensitive spectrum.

The light my brothers were speaking of is technically not light at all, though. It is a primal creative potential blank slate... a dreamspace that hasn't been dreamt into as of yet. It is the space you reach in peak entheogenic breakthroughs of the breakthroughs... but it is also the space you enter when you consciously leave a dream lucidly before the next dream takes shape. It is not unlike the Matrix with its blank program when Morpheus is showing Neo the ropes. On top of the basic white light, there is generally this shining, effulgent presence of peace... of joy, love and bliss... throbbing into your very being and erasing it. At its fullness, one's existence seems to merge and subsume into this primal creative force.

Often people just report experiencing only this light and the deep peace, but in my experience, it is possible to communicate with this primal creative force. If your intention is clear, and you truly will it... it can speak to you in plain English. This is often not desired, though, as it can communicate even finer things with telepathy, and show you viscerally whatever you need to be shown. It can cause you to directly feel whatever you need to feel as well.

Naturally, this is just my interpretation of something that is by its very nature uninterpretable. Results may vary, so to speak. But if you study the record of such encounters and revelations well, you will see that this is an extremely common vision across all cultures, time periods and religious belief systems. Sufis talk about it, Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists, Aborigines... It is in esoteric Judaism, Huna, Zoroastrianism, Yoga... frankly, it is tough to find a mystical record that doesn't mention it as some point.

I enjoy the darkness, though, as well. While most of my trans dream empty spaces are "white outs," I have had more than a few "black outs" as well. I have had a few K-Hole/ M-Hole experiences that were all about the darkness of the void. The tangible feeling that the Universe was 99.9999% empty space, and that the matter was also either mostly space, or just an illusion of vibrating energies. Sinking into that void is a very speedy route towards extremely cosmic oneness feelings IMO. I must say, though, that even in these void darkness states, eventually light of some sort comes in. Often it is an intensive flood of mind light... mine, the universe's... probably mine most of the time, as it is stronger the more I raise my vibration and feed my brain with nootropics and neurotransmitters etc. When it is the universal light, though, it is not all that different to the light you find in the white out.

Light is seen as always conquering the darkness because even the smallest light can completely erase the darkness. No amount of darkness can erase light because darkness is nothing but the relative absence of light.

Anyway, that is how I experience it... take it worth a grain of salt, and leave it if it doesn't do anything for you.

I like this:

I'd like to take a stab at perhaps not answering you directly, but posing other questions to further probe this line of thinking.

What is light and what is darkness?

Is light that wich comes from sources of photonic illumination?
Or is light that which we see with closed eye's in a dream or on psychedelics?



Is darkness the absence of light or is light the absence of dark? It's not really possible to say which came first, because without the concept of light there can be no concept of dark and without a concept of dark there can be no concept of light.

Perhaps there is no light and no darkness, but only perception?
And perhaps without perception there is nothing.

Taking science as an example. The Big bang could be thought of as a large burst of light. But it didn't burst into a dark space. It created the space it was filling. It was creating what would later be conceptualized as light and dark simultaneously. Before the bang there was only a void. No light. No dark. No Thing.


Peace.

Awesome.

Especially love this:

"Or is light that which we see with closed eye's in a dream or on psychedelics?"

I like this too, god encompasses everything. But it brings me back to something jamie said earlier "everything is just energy! dark matter is energy and so is light. Both probably appear equally in the universe. Ying and yang.

My white light experience i was in the presence of complete love and understanding. Everything i ever needed to know was there. Ive had also with dark non visual breakthrus with just alien music playing but still with a pure understanding and enjoyment as the white light experience.

Its all swings and roundabours again, Doh!

joedirt rocks! brilliant thinking

In fact all of the above posters have brilliant minds! Except me

I agree with posters above.. Intuitively, the idea of God makes sense to me as being exactly what's beyond dualities (or trinities, if we consider that the opposites unite into a Third). I just wanted to put out some thoughts that came to my head and see how you all played with them, and of course, it was beautiful, as expected!

Good questions Joedirt

^the idea that god itself is "beyond" anything though seems to be another dualistic trap to some degree.

Absolutely, jamie. You raise another brilliant point. Were God truly beyond everything and no thingness, it wouldn't really be the Omniscient. It is surely a trap within our minds and it is paradoxical. For if God transcends duality and trinity, it does exist "beyond" all of this existential stuff. And yet, it is surely here. Right now, it is this entire totality in motion. It is the unbroken cord, beatifically interwoven in the fabric of mind. In quintessence, it is the very core of that which unites the whole shebang, through it's Divine emanations. This is arguably the same as that, when no dichotomy exists to the observer of reality. The "energy" which you perceive is existent inside of all that is... and so too, simultaneously exists outside of the time-space-continuum. A grand paradox for sure.

Exactly

By saying "beyond" I have set myself into a paradoxical trap.. It's not "either..or" , it's " and..and ".

I like the image Gurdjieff used, how creation was the movement from Unity to Multiplicity, and Evolution is the inverse way, from Multiplicity working the way back to Unity. So we are a "Project of God", we are "Gods in the making", and we are God, and we aren't God.

So what now? How does this help us?

The experience(s) of having felt these different levels of connection to the Endless Endlessness helps me get through life's difficulties, and they shape my way of communicating, my ethics, in a way. But even then, still the difficulties are difficult (lol), and there are still all these misteries and moments where I am completely at loss on what I should do when certain hard choices present themselves to me. Also it seems pretty impossible to actually communicate this with someone who has not reached a certain level or had a certain kind of experience.

This reminds me also of something HyperspaceFool mentioned in another thread (I think), regarding Elitism, and how it is something to be expected, natural and even wanted at some points. I agree with that, I think of course one always needs to be aware not to turn it into simply food for the ego but to actually have a point and purpose for it.

For example, I feel that a natural aspect of developing oneself is becoming more picky about stimulus. I feel that all kinds of stimulus are like food, what I see and hear, I am also 'eating', and I dont know about you guys but I dont eat junk food. So I start avoiding certain situations, people, places. This sometimes can generate a negative reaction in some people, because it's like my presence and ways actually make them question themselves (even if I never ever try to tell others what they should do), and they turn defensive. So there is this natural isolation, but at the same time I think its important to make an effort to actually occasionally immerse myself into some unwanted situations, like say some kind of social situations or whatever, because the 'X factor', or the unknown, is actually a great source of knowledge, and from something that is bad in a way, one can learn a lot too

Im not even sure what im trying to get at, sorry for turning my post too personal, Im again just writting some thoughts that come out of my head at the moment. I love you all, really

Yes, now we are getting to the nitty gritty of what we mean spiritually, as humanoid beings, when we speak of The Light. Most scriptures use the words akin to "effulgence" to describe the nature of the Sacred. A bright idea at that!

The Egyptian pharaoh Akhenaten saw the Divine as existing within a chariot of living light, as the material manifestation of the sun, the brilliant center of our relative solar system. I believe he and his priesthood knew all too well that "the light of Aten" existed within an alternate dimensional plane but... they saw physical light as the mirrored refraction of the Deity's nature and sought to worship those characteristics akin to the indwelling light, the light of infinity.

The whiteout experience... this can instantly shatter our attachment to our habitual mental fixations and dissolve our very boundaries and parameters of self. Much as when Moses fell before the overwhelming intensity of the Burning Bush. Allegorically and practically, the flame of "truth" burns the illusion of the dreamer into ashes (a truth which transcends duality and trinities).

The same can be said for Parsi/Zoroastrian cosmology and the earliest Indian Rig Vedas. I am certain that they didn't really think that material fire was literally the Supreme God, for they knew from their own transcendental experiences that the LIGHT is the conscious gateway into the state of Holiness (wholly I am-ness).

These mystical states of mind to no-mind, whereby one sees blinding white light within one's own individual head, are wholly experiential, not conceptual or merely the imagined projection of ideological symbolism. Parabolic and symbolic codification of the concept of effulgence, is surely not all there is to such heightened levels and altered states. Seeing is believing, eh? Seeing the light, as a direct reality, must be lived to be of any validity for us on our journey. Concepts are just symbolic gestures, vainly grasping at labeling such luminescence. Although, they are very groovy symbols, IME.

Obviously, physical light is seen by our external visual receptors and channeled through our optic nerves, as this impression is transferred to the brain. We effectively utilize another visual orb of perception to see the internal effulgence. So too, the illumination is literally seen by the fully activated Ajna, our third eye (our mind's eye). As an optical portal of sorts, we can access into higher realms via this gate. This mirror of the eternal.

So the characteristic of light bridges our rational attention into the expanse of the fully bloomed Sahasrara, the Thousand Petaled Lotus, the Crown of Self, The Chrysanthemum. Or... perhaps as John Lennon described it, "Look Into A Glass Onion". The Crested Crown Jewel of Creation. From all of my voyages, and all I can retain to report, is that from this shimmering level, our interconnection to the Grid is fully completed. This is what I am getting from all of your sublime thoughts, guys. Even the light is then lost, for without darkness it looses it's very definition. Another illusion?

And while within the material paradigm, light and darkness exist as polarities to one another, internally they are Uni-Omni-One unified fulcrum and synthesis. For the human process of merging within the manifestation of light, however, the soul surrenders the mental membrane which divides self and other. The ensuing euphoria is, from my own tiny vantage point, the sweetest ecstasy a soul can experience. Egoself abandoning it's subjectivity into the Omniself. Like a droplet of water merging into the expanse of the ocean, as they say in the Eastern allegories. Tat Tvam Asi. 'Tis an incomparable bliss!!!

The dawning of the Inner light washes-away or fades-out any and all thought division, all lines of distinction. When all is light and darkness is naught... what is then is light? One assimilates the other to become the very same... that which is... what it is. That which exists beyond or within said duality. So, we might conceive that the light is more of a servant of God or a perhaps one of several masks the Sacred wears, to wake us out of spiritual slumber?

Inside of the spiraling depth of this Omniscient effulgence, exists a stillness light years beyond our limited cognitive belief systems (pun most admittedly intended), as mortal perception is relative to what it observes under the laws of polarity. Yahweh is wholly transcendent of form or substance, yet exudes light, even as it speaks the Word, thus it initiates quantum fluctuation. So it's very translucence and essence, is quite rightly called, by Tibetan Buddhists, "The Clear Light of the Void".

Spiritually, we see this as well, hence the term "enlightenment". Our direct contact with the Light and Word facilitates our interconnection and integration within the Grid, the energy contact of The Unified Field, as it integrates self-reflection via the human soul.

In my own experiences with the internal light and sound current (Carrier Wave & Om), it is affirmatively not just a flood of photonic energy, nor the product of imagined visualization and/or expectation. Nor is the sound current just a buzzing in the ear canal. These phenomena are always experienced in conjunction with a profound shift in perception. Likewise a subtle activation of semi-dormant regions within the brain.

I feel that it is not at all, merely a case of the phenomena of material, external light being turned-on inside of the head of the conscious observer. If that were the case, sun bathing would be akin to Divine revelation. Not that it can't be. I always get really high when I am bathed by the sunshine. And true enough, Pharaoh Akhenaten felt it was part and parcel to direct union with Aten. But visit any public beach, lost amidst the oiling and pulsating clamor, and you know what I am getting at. It's not that simple, would that it were. Sigh...

And if the sound of a high oscillating ringing tone or a rumbling drone, where all it took to enter trance-state... listening to the humming reverberations of a simple tuning fork or focusing on a lawn mower's motorized whirring engine noise or even a chain saw, would equally do the trick. I speculate it is the source and internality of these sounds and visions, that give them power and their wholly mystical dimension. That being said, maybe tuning one's guitar and mowing the lawn are actually the 21st century manifestation of the old Zen ideals of chopping wood and carrying water? Whose to say.

It is perceived as a wholly internal illumination, right? It radiates from a wholly Sacred realm within and beyond this one. It is all-loving and all-knowing awareness, unbound consciousness. It in effect, eats you alive and assimilates your singularity in perception. I feel that it is our own interior self, as raw energy, existent in it's most primary, naked state. It is all knowledge and all awareness fused in mortal experience. A Hyper-intelligence, and one which has an overwhelming Omnipresence about it.

In most classic cases of the CLOV, this is accompanied by a profound spiritual knowledge being received from said, "Inner Light". Perceptually, it is not the same as the self-dissolution one experiences within the inky blackness of the Void. For white-out experiences bring the individual attention to a place whereby the witness is burned in the flames of Omniscience and so, becomes reborn anew as the embodiment of the very light itself. Mind of light.

There is a palpable perceptual shift resultant, and the stunned watcher from behind our subjectivity, inter-phases within the core of the Uni-awareness of the central internal witness. This is an oppressive vacuum of sorts. A vortex of Hyper-awareness. A central hub of conscious-awareness which we all interconnect within, as we are surely but One entity dreaming we are many. This is what I mean by my repetitive proclamation about, "The Awakening of the Omniself".

This supra-intelligent vibration of universal being finds itself incarnated as ourselves. Thus, saying "I am God" is not even a case of the witness having any identity at all, for the personal drama of Mego the ego... is merely an illusory construct of my mind. When ego death stills the thought-process, Sacred knowledge is instantly remembered. So, "I am that I am" is found to be oneself, as one's own truest being, as well as the truest self of all being and non-being.

Metaphysically, light itself is still the dichotomy of darkness, for knowledge brings the light into mind, and when the mind becomes one within the internal light, it awakens to "enlightenment". Perhaps this is why Zarathustra kept preaching about the constant battle between Ahura Mazda and Ahriman. Light vs Darkness in an eternal struggle for dominance. This battle is really more of a dance, from my own limited understanding. Yin and Yang turning endlessly within the whole sphere, the entire perceptual field of existential reality, as is interpreted by the observer to the phenomenon.

As many brilliant points have underlined in this fine thread. That God, by necessity of reason, cannot be divided into light and darkness, for Brahman is wholly indivisible and most immanent in all of creation, light or dark. Likewise, the Divine Zing is fully present in everything, while bound by no limitation of dimension, form or substance.

But for the seeker of the Light, what matters most if the shift in conscious-awareness accompanied by the direct contact within the internal light. It dissolves our subjectivity and if we are willing to surrender our very self, embrace ego death voluntarily, a deeper awareness crosses over... our mind immerses itself into this immense plane of effulgence.

Samadhi-Sambodhi-Satori are words attempting to describe this luminous infusion of the I AM THAT I AM. But the light is not truly God. It is an aspect of the Divine and a subtle mask. I have found that the light is like an angelic presence. It connects us to a greater awareness. Much as the sound of the Carrier Wave lifts our spirits. Or as the universal rumbling tone of the Aum vibration does. The living Word. These "angels" call us beyond ourselves and awaken our remembrance of all that is Holy and Indivisible.

We are transported, become rapidly morphed and transformed by these aspects and attributes which emanate out of the Insubstantial, Eternal Godhead. I have found that said attributes and subtle characteristics, draw our attention away from ourselves as individual entities. It numbs our isolation by melting our barriers and our solidity as a consciousnesses. And so too, allows for the Grand Eclipsing of Jivatman within Paramatman.

Yet ironically, this smacks of paradox. Since one can not be an Egoself and awaken as The Omniself, at the very same moment. Or can one? I think not. But what if I stop thinking? Would that be the cosmic oxymoron at mischievous abandonment and play?

Neither can light exist with darkness on equal terms. One must fall into phases of nothingness upon contact, if they are constants. Or is it more of a mutual balancing act? Defining all of this we perceive, through counterpoint and shading... but leaving us confounded at the end of the game. It is what it is. We share the same friction of awareness. That's exactly why I refer to the high as the "Grand Eclipsing". I might as easily said the words, "spiritual alignment", it's more vague but far less melodramatic.

It is essentially a trance state. It is an illuminating epiphany, a peak experience. We all come down and spend the rest of our lives assimilating and integrating all of this Sacred, Omniversal knowledge. The Egoself is then realized as a transitory mask or a mirage we dream. Blooming realities beyond our known reality await our conscious-awareness to embrace such an inter-fusion into the Void... which is forever creating, sustaining and transcending duality.

That is pretty much what I was getting at with the whole ethereal light thing...

Actually I thought it had complete relevance to the thread. Your point about elitism is very interesting, I especially could relate to this statement:



this not only applies to food, because well...I still eat junk food..lol but I understand it is not the best choice...

other than food I believe it applies to many other behaviors. IMO This is pretty much the same reasoning why Christ was hated by the pharosees and others. Because Christ made them question themselves..

Glad you caught my drift on that. It is a somewhat controversial stance--one I took because I rather enjoy debating intellectuals on taboo subjects--but I really stand by it. For those who have no idea what endlessness is referring to, it was a a sidetrack on the ever lovely "Why You Should NOT Do DMT" thread from our old pal Vovin. A long and thought provoking sticky. If you want to catch the beneficent side of elitism, exclusivity and prejudice sub-thread that I initiated there in response to the bevy of PC cries of elitist and whatnot when people suggested that--god forbid--DMT is probably not for everyone... it starts here and runs for a while in a lively debate.

In the context of this thread, the notion that we are all G*d... part of, connected to or whatever... kind of erases most exclusivity notions in the grander unity of divinity. And this is as it should be. But even still, we have people who actively feel this connection and act accordingly, and we have a mass of people so stupifyingly unconscious that they do things like pollute their environment, deny that their is any repercussion to this, and simultaneously move to push their waste into other people's backyards. The kind of people that scream all day about their Freedom... and yet support the Drug War and mandatory transvaginal ultrasounds. (You know who you are... and if you are reading this, you should leave us elitists here to our paranoid and somewhat illegal hobbies in peace.)

Mystics (those who are not content with books, faith, or claims, but have to actively seek out and experience spiritual, mysterious, and supernatural states and experiences for themselves--something nearly, but not quite, synonymous with being a psychonaut) have always been an elite and exclusive lot. With today's draconian prohibitions on how we can use our central nervous systems... this exclusivity is as important--vital even--as it ever was.

Case in point: Go up to a psych ward whitecoat and babble to him about how you have transcendental breakthroughs into effulgent white light and commune with your OmniSelf until you are absolutely sure that you yourself are, in fact, G*d... and you will probably lose your status in the elite club of free entheogen-using mystics only to join another exclusive but less esteemed club... inmate in your local looney bin.

Elitism allows us to prejudge this situation and know that mister whitecoat--for all his other virtues--is simply not ready to hear about effulgence of bliss and omniversal oneness... We can judge him to be below our station in this and a clear and present danger to us, and act accordingly.

Lovely rainbows and blissed out yoginis from here to Bali have made the mistake of thinking that everyone is in our club. Watch yourselves my compadres. We are not beloved by all... as of yet anyway.




PS to RS: As usual my soul brother... you laid down a healthy slab of cosmic goodness there for us to soak up. Your unwavering commitment to the highest truths and beauty are a beacon of light themselves... for all to behold and be uplifted by. Kudos, namasté.

I agree. There is something to the carrier wave buzzing.

Like you said, I also notice an increase in intensity of this noise is quite typically associated with a change in perception. Pot, alcohol, and psychedelics all produce a change in my inner noise and they all do it differently.

During deep meditation I often time hear this noise split into many different tones from bee'z buzzing to wind chimes, to church bell like sounds.

I wonder if you could force yourself to recreate the buzz on a DMT blast off if it would be accompanied...well by a break through of sorts? Who the hell knows I suppose.

I love this thread.

I seriously think your on to something here....


I believe tones can function as vibrational keys that open certain doorways.

About the inner tones & inner light... I have had some success with directly manipulating these things via meditation and the effects seem to mirror drug induced changes in reverse. Instead of the drug bringing about a certain psychedelic state which results in a certain type of inner noise and specific spectra of inner light, manipulating the mindstate directly is mirrored in changes to the psychic senses which also causes corresponding psychedelic states.

I am not 100% certain, as I am rarely completely without any external supplementation long enough to have gotten all of it totally out of my system, but it seems relatively clear to me that the tones are a byproduct of a specific state of consciousness. They can serve as a kind of built in biofeedback in that you can manipulate the tones and get replicable results in your consciousness. This is somewhat easier than manipulating consciousness without the feedback as these things can be rather subtle in the early stages and often the trick lies in something other than what you would naturally put your energy to. Think of those wicked magic 3-D pictures you have to stare a certain way at to see, only even more subtle.

Once you get it going though, it becomes anything but subtle.



And then you can do a lot of neat tricks by squinting, changing your focus, letting the eyelids open a sliver, wiggle your ears, stretch your throat and nasal cavities, yawn... as well as the obvious mantras, toning, mudras and traditional yogic standbys.

It's interesting though... how sooner or later psychedelics get you thinking about those ancient questions - duality, unity, subject/object relation, coincidence of opposites, oneness and multiplicity... And I wonder what kind of people use them for fun? It's a wisdom goldmine, and you use it to look at pretty pictures? OK, see you next life.

Personaly I started out by using them for fun and then it just led to spirituality...

I think in some rare cases the road of excess can lead to the palace of wisdom...

A mature red blood cell does not contain any DNA.The analogy HF uses would be more acceptable if he referred to white blood cells.