I've been thinking about this subject for quite a while now. Ever since around 2004-2005 I've had HPPD (Hallucinogenic Persisting Perception Disorder) to some extent. At the beginning (after a whole summer spent on a Phish tour) it was very strong and even scary at times. To the point where I had a real fear that I was never going to come completely down and suspected that I had somehow fried myself indefinitely.

I was always having visual disturbances of some kind, wether it being that everything was breathing and wavy in appearance, covered in some sort of TV screen looking static, and even geometric patterns floating in mid air...among other things. Mind you, all of this was going on after I had been back from touring for a while and had not used any psychedelics whatsoever. Substances used while on tour included....well just about everything but specifically loads of LSD (in a few different forms but many, many clean microdots), Mushrooms, Ketamine, MDA, AMT, DPT freebase, and an array of other RC's that were available back then.

I had been way excessive that summer, and after I'd been back for about three weeks to a month and was still experiencing all of this, I finally ended up dishing out a decent amount of cash to go be seen by a specialist at Emory University out of anxiety and fear that it would never end (as it was the first time I'd experienced anything like that). That didn't do me much good.

I was basically told that not a lot of long term research had been done on HPPD, but that I could take low doses of a benzodiazepine with a long half-life daily (which isnt an option for me anymore) and that this had been of a little help to some and to come back if I started experiencing any psychological issues. Thankfully that never occurred.

Things aren't anything like they were back then as far as intensity (it took about 8 months to start to diminish and years to level out to what it is now), but I do still experience a moderate amount of HPPD. It hasn't prevented me from taking many psychedelics since then, but usually spread out pretty well and not the binge style like I was on tour. I haven't noticed any of those sessions increasing the HPPD symptoms. The reason Im bringing all of this up is because Im doing my first extraction soon. Seeing as how strong Dimitri can be, Im wondering if it will have any effect on the HPPD.

My question is, do any of you have HPPD? If so, did you have it before using DMT for any length of time? If so, did the Dimitri effect the HPPD at all and in what ways? I'm not overly worried, but it would be good to hear from some of you on the subject of HPPD. Especially if any of you have been through it.

Someone once told me that psychedelics on your consciousness is like a rope. You unwind the rope when you are on psychedelics and wind it back up when you come down. The rope can however become unwound and stay unwound or partly when you take too much psychedelics.

I am not sure how true this is, but it might help understand why you were still tripping when you stopped taking dries for that period of time.

I like the rope analogy. I'm not exactly sure how/why it occurs in some and not others who munch down psychs excessively. However, I know for a fact that HPPD is real, based on my own personal experience, being "diagnosed", and there being many other documented cases of it (even found forums dedicated to discussing it and for support a while back). Not to mention the fact that I've known and been around some old school heads who are definitely somewhat perma-fried or "shot out" by their own admission and it being very obvious. Those are a select few, but usually those few have either experimented with actual xtal LSD and laid a fair bit of blotter or have just eaten other forms of it and other powerful psychs constantly for years on end.

Ive heard of people calling these types "acid casualties" in the past, but usually from what I've been able to tell, those few (minus one) wouldn't have things any other way and seem to enjoy what appears to be a constant state of near psycedelic induced psychosis.

Anyways, I've met a decent number of people who claim to experience some form of HPPD (even if only from time to time and not on a consistent basis). I'm just trying to see if I can get any Nexians input on wether Dimitri has had an influence on this with them or anyone they know.

Hi, sorry to hear about your misfortune. Can you remember which experiences seemed to contribute the most to it?

I have the symptoms of HPPD, but not the disorder. I dont count it as true HPPDisorder because although it can be elaborate, it doesnt cause me any problems (other than distracting me).

I'm around 6-7 years after the onset, most of the time its unnoticeable if I look past it, but I can still enjoy it if I pay attention to it. Like dreams, the more attention I pay it, the more noticable and bigger part of life it becomes, in short and medium term. I started vapourising freebase DMT about 3-4 years after onset and noticed no change whatsoever. Using other psychedelics, or pharmahuasca also had no effect. Alcohol however, in any large amount, makes the visuals significantly more pronounced the next day or two, before everything reverting to normal days later. Sleep deprivation, stress and intense exercise also facilitate it.

Everyone's different, but if you've made your mind up and you're not that worried about it, thats good. I wouldnt worry too much about it either I suppose there is always a chance DMT might affect it, but no more so than any other hearty dose of psychedelic; just go easy, use the forum guidance, keep a weather eye on things, and have fun.

Yea me and countless of us here have what some would define as "HPPD". Keep in mind though that this is just some label to describe mental phenomenon which we don't yet understand. Viewing it as a "disorder" is a personal choice and depends on the context in which you work with and view the psychedelic experience. If it was something that came unwillingly under harsh circumstances filled with anxiety its understandable that people would assume its some kind of disorder... (and in situations like that, from my more early experiences with it, it seems to me that it may make things worse by contributing to pre-existing anxiety/paranoia)

I think HPPD is a very misunderstood thing.. It seems that worrying is the last thing that would help, in any case..Its sort of like with dmt; you can just accept what is happening and work with it, or just be fearful in the face of the unknown. What most people describe as HPPD is very very mild compared to what ayahuasca shamans have learned to do for thousands of years--bring in the visions on they're own without even drinking the brew. It'd be hilarious to go up and tell them they have a "disorder" because of this. I remember reading in the book the invisible landscape that the ocean a medicine man navigates is the same as the ocean which the schizophrenic is pushed into unwillingly..While that is not entirely accurate in all cases and makes some generalizations I think something similar to that applies to some cases of HPPD, to some extent.

IME its just the beginning of establishing a deeper connection with a state of mind that is barely comprehensible to our normal, linear, rational mode of consciousness. I "hallucinate" all the time, but the interesting thing to me isn't so much the visuals (although they can be interesting, of course) but the state of mind that becomes more and more accessible through dedicated use of these medicines and endogenous experiences.

But to answer you're question, yes dmt could possibly increase you're "HPPD". Although the question of whether or not it will at all, and to what degrees, depends on many factors.

I would just go with the flow and not worry about it, personally

Yup. Universecannon has something there. I will just add a bit. You could look at this as a disorder, or a gift. If you look at what meditation and deep psychedelics are doing. They are expanding your conciousness and can even open you 3rd eye. If unwanted could be bad, but if wanted, you could embellish its powers as you wish and use it as a tool! Or even a type of magic! See into other dimensions from psychedelic admissions which expanded your conciousness and leaving the door open to peer in at will. Some people would die for that!
Heck maybe even cure cancer! Hehe sure! Like that would ever happen... Really?? Hehehe

Once you have already experienced the tripping-mindset, what
would be so difficult about recalling that same mindset?

I definitely don't consider it brain damage, or a disorder.
It has been one of the most beneficial things for me.

I think it's just another perception, another way of seeing things.
It's like you unlocked a door in your mind with a psychedelic key.
Now that the door has been unlocked, you can enter or leave it
anytime you like once you figure out how to close and open the
doors willingly.

Also,

If reality itself is a hallucination, then why should an altered
perception of this hallucinatory reality be considered a disorder?

Who is the master who makes the grass green?

You all brought up great points. Thank you for your contributions thus far. They have given me much different perspectives in which to view this. This thread has inspired me to experiment with attempting to channel this and make it more pronounced after putting myself into a somewhat deep meditational state.

kaos: I had been taking large quantities of MDA, LSD, Mushrooms, and freebase DPT oil around the time of "onset". I guess I was viewing it from the "disorder" perspective because I've seen individuals who are effected to the extent that they have a lot of trouble interacting with society now, either can't or just haven't been able to channel or control any of it, whose personalities have changed drastically and who now have "psychological problems" such as random uncontrollable crying spells, paranoia (in varying degrees), intense fear of unnecessary things, etc...

Now don't get me wrong. I love to go to outer space and "lose myself" , my ego, and anything that grounds me to this reality. It's really a beautiful thing at times, albeit a little uncomfortable at first maybe. However, I can only imagine what it would be like to lose everything grounding me to this daily reality and then to eventually only get very little or none if it back and that state become my new reality indefinitely. I've been to places I surely wouldn't want to be "stuck in" indefinitely. I think my initial viewing of it as a "disorder" is just due to having seen the seriousness of it's extremes and maybe having a little fear of something triggering a similar experience in myself. I mean I've seen these extremes in guys I went to school with and have had many many many experiences with, which makes it feel like it's not as rare and far out as I once thought.


universecannon: I definitely believe that it's just a label as well, but varying from person to person as to wether or not it could be qualified as a "disorder". I've been thinking about it all a good bit lately and after doing a little reflection I don't think it is really a disorder at all in my case. There are some people I've known who I would put in that classification though (based on what they've shared with me, my own observations of their current mental and physical health compared to what it was prior to "onset" and what a disorder is by definition).

I think we can probably agree that ayahuasca shamans bringing on visions without ingesting is an incredible thing. I do believe that what a lot of people consider minor HPPD symptoms and shamans bringing on full vision states through years of training themselves on how to channel that energy is a bit different, but there could definitely be a connection.

I think it could indeed be establishing a deeper connection with a state of mind that is barely comprehensible to our normal, linear, rational mode of consciousness in some cases. I'm going to continue experimenting with this. Thank you.


I AM SWIM: I've always been able to recall what that mindset was, but actually putting myself in the same mindset as far as intensity has been difficult. Channelling the "HPPD" to bring on a full intensity psychedelic or visual experience or to shut it down completely is really interesting to me though.

That video was awesome too btw. Although, I don't believe this reality itself Is really a hallucination. I just believe every living thing perceives it differently to some extent. With humans I don't see everyones perceptions of this reality being so different that I would venture to say that each person is hallucinating. I'm talking visually of course. Now mentally is a totally different thing. Mentally I believe everyone views everything differently to some extent and is living in his/her own reality due to the drastically different way everyone perceives things mentally.