My latest extraction results are waiting for a bio-assay, finally... a few small test runs are already promising, both smoked and sublingual! I've smoked quite some basified seeds but this is much better. Imagine how many seeds you'd have to smoke for 100 mg of alkaloids!

House, have you ever thought of separating the harmine and harmaline? Now you get a kind of 'mixed bag' of effects.
I've been doing that with bicarbonate. It could be placebo at the small quantities I tried, but the harmaline indeed seems more sedative, the 'harmine' (which probably still contains some harmaline) more clear/energizing.

I've tried both harmine and harmaline in high doses and can't say I notice much of a difference.

Maybe placebo after all - I must smoke more

So when smoking changa, do the harmalas usually flash after the dmt? I am asking because whenever I smoke changa I always get a big harmala-feeling flash at the END of the cone, usually after all the herb/most of the dmt is gone... I just torch the scrubber a bit and fwoosh I get that energetic body "buzz" and slight nausea headpressure "push". I like it, it helps reintegrating... Do the harmalas have a higher vaporization point than DMT?

Most definitely. It also comes on a lot slower/later than DMT IMO. I smoke harmalas first, usually for an hour or so... like smoking a regular pipe (toke toke toke), until I feel sideways on the MAOI. Then it's time to climb the mountains of madness.

Oh ok. Thanks HD cuttlefish! I like the smoked harmine (11x caapi) alot but i havent had it without Spice, so I'm excited to finish up my Harmal extraction. Had to leave it back at the spot while visiting the wife's Fam, but at least it'll be nice and settled by the time I get back tomorrow.

I see many of he more experienced harmala vapers don't weigh it... However, I will be weighing mine (just kindof anal about dosage!lol) at least at first. What is a good dosage for vaping/smoking? What about sublingual? Can it be snuffed? I imagine the effects would be a little different depending on ROA used... What have the experienced users found the be the most visionary? What about the most pleasant?

Ok ok sorry for all the questions, I'm just excited to try my first purified harmala alkaloids!

Hmm, I haven't weighed it out in so long. Judging by the size of pile I dump into the pipe, probably about 100-200mg at a time? I smoke over a longer period of time, so I just keep adding it as I go.

This is my favorite route and easiest to control: It's just a matter of smoke, hold, wait.... repeat until I feel strong physical and mental effects. It's easy and self regulating so far.

Sublingual never works for me, I salivate too much. I gave up on the nasal route, it just hurts too damn much even mixing it with lidocaine.

How long do you hold the smoke for ?

I liked to smoke my caapi leaves x3, but the acetate taste becomes distasteful after a while.
Do you think that soaking the unadulterated leaves with some freebase harmalas extracted from rue would work well enough and have no acetate taste ?

Also, do you know what gives the flu like feeling I have when smoking caapi leaves x3 + pau d'Arco 1:1 changa ?
Would using extracted freebase harmalas on a non caapi herb (like mullein) still give that sick feeling ?

Do you know if there are interactions with tobacco, BTW ?

Until I run out of air. As long as possible, in other words.



Somebody here, I think it was Amor fati, gave up on the acetates since they seemed to cause some kinda malaise. I have had success with taking the freebase powder, shake with the herbs, light spritz of fine water mist until damp, shake again to fully coat, then dry to desired level in open air.



I do know that feeling, that's why I don't touch changa anymore. I think it's some kinda problem with the DMT and other plant materials/substances. That stuff makes me sick as a dog. I tried different base herbs, different solvents etc, even vaporizing it in the GVG... still get the 'changa flu'.



Yes, it potentiates it. Tobacco naturally has harmalas in it. I just bump the profile. I like damiana better, when I can get it though.

I think the changa is overrated, vaporizing harmala 20mn prior to DMT is the way to go for me.

My dosage is 20mg of double manske rue exctract and I'm "harmalized" for 2 hours
Well, I put 20mg in my GVG, some slip even through 8 screens and some is lost in the air as you will soon discover by yourself, even if you keep it for 30+ sec, you will still exhale some of the goodies.

I don't know how some can smoke 100mg at once

Peace

Do you feel those 20mg by themselves, or only when smoking DMT on top ?
Are you vaping freebase or manske salts ?

I tried vaping a few mg of freebase on the HSG but I found it very hard on the lungs...

Why the use of water instead of (m)ethanol ?
What did Amor fati use instead of acetic acid ?
In which process : harmalas acid extraction or caapi leaves concentration boils ?


I only get the changa flu when I vaporize it in the GVG, adding it in a joint doesn't do the same, though of course it's much weaker too.
Smoking concentrated caapi leaves (with vinegar) doesn't give me the flu, have you tried with unadulterated caapi leaves, DMT and extracted harmalas ? I really don't understand this flu thing...
If it works with standard caapi leaves, maybe one could concentrate caapi leaves with ethanol soak instead of the acetic acid boils ?
In other words, is the vinegar the issue here ?

Freebase. It is not hard at all on the lungs, maybe you need to clean them a bit more. And of course you feel it, 20mg give me slight OEV that way I know I'm ready for DMT. I vaporize those 20mg in at least 5 tokes over 5-10mns, NO WAY I could take in 20mg and keep it without exhaling 2/3 of it.
I am very sensitive person, so maybe you can up the dose to 40mg, but if you have clean harmala freebase, you should feel it even at 20mg.

Good luck

Thank you, that was very helpful.
I'll try to clean my freebase a bit further, and vaporize following your technique, I'll start at 30mg.
(I think I have a "normal" sensitivity, I need 3-4g of shrooms to have nice CEVs and I don't always break through with 40mg DMT in the GVG - but will test with 20mg after harmalas of course)

Load your bowl up and puff away until there is none left

If that can help, 20mns after 20mg harmalas, 10mg sends me straight to hypervacuum
But I trip on .5g shrooms, 1g is heavy level 3!



No way for me, at least not with a GVG, I'm still trying to go slowly to 30mg, but no luck so far, 20mg is the limit for the moment

For the shrooms, you're talking about cubensis, right ?
If so, and your 20mg harmalas limit seems to indicate so, you have an extreme sensibility to psychedelics !

I can't even feel 0.5g cubensis, no visuals with 1g and only 2-3h light weird feelings.
I've smoked more than 20mg harmalas in acetate concentrated leaves and didn't have any psychedelics effects.
Maybe a light sense of peace due to the MAO inhibition, but that's all.

I have yet to try a real harmalas + DMT break through session, though.
I only had a few trips on changa that gave me a different experience from my usual DMT trips, but none with pure harmalas followed by pure DMT.

I'll probably have Ayahuasca next week with friends, this should sensibilize me with the harmalas+DMT experience for good

On the "changa flu" subject...

what are you all talking about specifically? The nausea and general bodyload? If so, I always just attributed that to the harmalas... could it be something else? What are the symptoms of this?

Also, you guys were talking about harmala acetates causing "malaise". I've never used acetates, how are you guys doing it? Do you just mean vinegar-water boils and evapping the results? I have just used ethanol and acetone to extract my caapi leaves...

Thanks

For me, it happened after the afterglow, not immediately after the coming down. I had vaped (GVG) 80mg of caapi leaves (vinegar boiled and concentrated) + pau d'Arco + DMT, after 2 sessions of pure spice (25mg & 40mg).
I was also smoking a haze joint when I felt it.
It was literally like the feeling you got just at the onset of a flu. You know, at night when you're going to bed and you KNOW tomorrow you're going to be sick ? General skin sensitivity, light pain all over the body, a little feverish.


In my case, yes, I used vinegar water boils on the leaves and then reduced on fresh leaves (10g on 1g => 4g of 2.75x caapi).
When vaporized, the taste is really not good for me, and the acetate just flows in the Sherlock and gets it dirty in no time.
I've had more luck smoking my 2.75x caapi leaves in a steam roller pipe, the taste is much better that way.
I haven't tested changa with only unconcentrated caapi leaves, or no caapi leaves at all and only extracted harmalas, though...

How long do you soak your leaves in acetone to extract your caapi leaves ?

Harmalas don't really do well in acetone... at least not freebase harmalas ime.

Ethanol is a much better solvent to use for extracting the goodness out of caapi leaves.

I haven't tried it yet but the word is that boiling caapi leaves for changa gives a much more desirable end result as it doesn't pull all of the fats and other things that the ethanol would. I doubt that vinegar helps a whole lot but that's just speculation on my part. I personally don't like the idea of smoking vinegar but to each their own I guess.