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oden
#21 Posted : 5/24/2012 11:54:51 PM

odin the one


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autumnsphere
#22 Posted : 5/25/2012 6:40:55 AM

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Quote:
Its an ongoing dichotomy of feelings.


Reading Jung right now... Amazing stuff, sorry for the long quote but it's worth it. The guy was brilliant, brilliant... What we see on DMT is Jung's PLEROMA. Smile

"THE SEVEN SERMONS TO THE DEAD
WRITTEN BY BASILIDES IN ALEXANDRIA,
THE CITY WHERE THE EAST
TOUCHETH THE WEST.
Sermo I

The dead came back from Jerusalem, where they found not what they sought. They prayed me let them in and besought my word, and thus I began my teaching.

Harken: I begin with nothingness. Nothingness is the same as fullness. In infinity full is no better than empty. Nothingness is both empty and full. As well might ye say anything else of nothingness, as for instance, white is it, or black, or again, it is not, or it is. A thing that is infinite and eternal hath no qualities, since it hath all qualities.

This nothingness or fullness we name the PLEROMA. Therein both thinking and being cease, since the eternal and infinite possess no qualities. In it no being is, for he then would be distinct from the pleroma, and would possess qualities which would distinguish him as something distinct from the pleroma.

In the pleroma there is nothing and everything. It is quite fruitless to think about the pleroma, for this would mean self-dissolution.

CREATURA is not in the pleroma, but in itself. The pleroma is both beginning and end of created beings. It pervadeth them, as the light of the sun everywhere pervadeth the air. Although the pleroma pervadeth altogether, yet hath created being no share thereof, just as a wholly transparent body becometh neither light nor dark through the light which pervadeth it. We are, however, the pleroma itself, for we are a part of the eternal and infinite. But we have no share thereof, as we are from the pleroma infinitely removed; not spiritually or temporally, but essentially, since we are distinguished from the pleroma in our essence as creatura, which is confined within time and space.

Yet because we are parts of the pleroma, the pleroma is also in us. Even in the smallest point is the pleroma endless, eternal, and entire, since small and great are qualities which are contained in it. It is that nothingness which is everywhere whole and continuous. Only figuratively, therefore, do I speak of created being as a part of the pleroma. Because, actually, the pleroma is nowhere divided, since it is nothingness. We are also the whole pleroma, because, figuratively, the pleroma is the smallest point (assumed only, not existing) in us and the boundless firmament about us. But wherefore, then, do we speak of the pleroma at all, since it is thus everything and nothing?

I speak of it to make a beginning somewhere, and also to free you from the delusion that somewhere, either without or within, there standeth something fixed, or in some way established, from the beginning. Every so-called fixed and certain thing is only relative. That alone is fixed and certain which is subject to change.

What is changeable, however, is creatura. Therefore is it the one thing which is fixed and certain; because it hath qualities: it is even quality itself.

The question ariseth: How did creatura originate? Created beings came to pass, not creatura; since created being is the very quality of the pleroma, as much as non-creation which is the eternal death. In all times and places is creation, in all times and places is death. The pleroma hath all, distinctiveness and non-distinctiveness.

Distinctiveness is creatura. It is distinct. Distinctiveness is its essence, and therefore it distinguisheth. Therefore man discriminateth because his nature is distinctiveness. Wherefore also he distinguisheth qualities of the pleroma which are not. He distinguisheth them out of his own nature. Therefore must he speak of qualities of the pleroma which are not.

What use, say ye, to speak of it? Saidst thou not thyself, there is no profit in thinking upon the pleroma?

That said I unto you, to free you from the delusion that we are able to think about the pleroma. When we distinguish qualities of the pleroma, we are speaking from the ground of our own distinctiveness and concerning our own distinctiveness. But we have said nothing concerning the pleroma. Concerning our own distinctiveness, however, it is needful to speak, whereby we may distinguish ourselves enough. Our very nature is distinctiveness. If we are not true to this nature we do not distinguish ourselves enough. Therefore must we make distinctions of qualities.

What is the harm, ye ask, in not distinguishing oneself? If we do not distinguish, we get beyond our own nature, away from creatura. We fall into indistinctiveness, which is the other quality of the pleroma. We fall into the pleroma itself and cease to be creatures. We are given over to dissolution in the nothingness. This is the death of the creature. Therefore we die in such measure as we do not distinguish. Hence the natural striving of the creature goeth towards distinctiveness, fighteth against primeval, perilous sameness. This is called the principium individuationis. This principle is the essence of the creature. From this you can see why indistinctiveness and non-distinction are a great danger for the creature.

We must, therefore, distinguish the qualities of the pleroma. The qualities are pairs of opposites, such asβ€”

The Effective and the Ineffective.
Fullness and Emptiness.
Living and Dead.
Difference and Sameness.
Light and Darkness.
The Hot and the Cold.
Force and Matter.
Time and Space.
Good and Evil.
Beauty and Ugliness.
The One and the Many. etc.
The pairs of opposites are qualities of the pleroma which are not, because each balanceth each. As we are the pleroma itself, we also have all these qualities in us. Because the very ground of our nature is distinctiveness, therefore we have these qualities in the name and sign of distinctiveness, which meanethβ€”

1. These qualities are distinct and separate in us one from the other; therefore they are not balanced and void, but are effective. Thus are we the victims of the pairs of opposites. The pleroma is rent in us.
2. The qualities belong to the pleroma, and only in the name and sign of distinctiveness can and must we possess or live them. We must distinguish ourselves from qualities. In the pleroma they are balanced and void; in us not. Being distinguished from them delivereth us.
When we strive after the good or the beautiful, we thereby forget our own nature, which is distinctiveness, and we are delivered over to the qualities of the pleroma, which are pairs of opposites. We labor to attain to the good and the beautiful, yet at the same time we also lay hold of the evil and the ugly, since in the pleroma these are one with the good and the beautiful. When, however, we remain true to our own nature, which is distinctiveness, we distinguish ourselves from the good and the beautiful, and, therefore, at the same time, from the evil and the ugly. And thus we fall not into the pleroma, namely, into nothingness and dissolution.

Thou sayest, ye object, that difference and sameness are also qualities of the pleroma. How would it be, then, if we strive after difference? Are we, in so doing, not true to our own nature? And must we none the less be given over to sameness when we strive after difference?

Ye must not forget that the pleroma hath no qualities. We create them through thinking. If, therefore, ye strive after difference or sameness, or any qualities whatsoever, ye pursue thoughts which flow to you out of the pleroma; thoughts, namely, concerning non-existing qualities of the pleroma. Inasmuch as ye run after these thoughts, ye fall again into the pleroma, and reach difference and sameness at the same time. Not your thinking, but your being, is distinctiveness. Therefore not after difference, as ye think it, must ye strive; but after your own being. At bottom, therefore, there is only one striving, namely, the striving after your own being. If ye had this striving ye would not need to know anything about the pleroma and its qualities, and yet would ye come to your right goal by virtue of your own being. Since, however, thought estrangeth from being, that knowledge must I teach you wherewith ye may be able to hold your thought in leash.



Sermo II

In the night the dead stood along the wall and cried:

We would have knowledge of god. Where is god? Is god dead?

God is not dead. Now, as ever, he liveth. God is creatura, for he is something definite, and therefore distinct from the pleroma. God is quality of the pleroma, and everything which I said of creatura also is true concerning him.

He is distinguished, however, from created beings through this, that he is more indefinite and indeterminable than they. He is less distinct than created beings, since the ground of his being is effective fullness. Only in so far as he is definite and distinct is he creatura, and in like measure is he the manifestation of the effective fullness of the pleroma.

Everything which we do not distinguish falleth into the pleroma and is made void by its opposite. If, therefore, we do not distinguish god, effective fullness is for us extinguished.

Moreover god is the pleroma itself, as likewise each smallest point in the created and uncreated is the pleroma itself.

Effective void is the nature of the devil. God and devil are the first manifestations of nothingness, which we call the pleroma. It is indifferent whether the pleroma is or is not, since in everything it is balanced and void. Not so creatura. In so far as god and devil are creatura they do not extinguish each other, but stand one against the other as effective opposites. We need no proof of their existence. It is enough that we must always be speaking of them. Even if both were not, creatura, of its own essential distinctiveness, would forever distinguish them anew out of the pleroma.

Everything that discrimination taketh out of the pleroma is a pair of opposites. To god, therefore, always belongeth the devil.

This inseparability is as close and, as your own life hath made you see, as indissoluble as the pleroma itself. Thus it is that both stand very close to the pleroma, in which all opposites are extinguished and joined.

God and devil are distinguished by the qualities fullness and emptiness, generation and destruction. Effectiveness is common to both. Effectiveness joineth them. Effectiveness, therefore, standeth above both; is a god above god, since in its effect it uniteth fullness and emptiness.

This is a god whom ye knew not, for mankind forgot it. We name it by its name Abraxas. It is more indefinite still than god and devil.

That god may be distinguished from it, we name god Helios or Sun. Abraxas is effect. Nothing standeth opposed to it but the ineffective; hence its effective nature freely unfoldeth itself. The ineffective is not, therefore resisteth not. Abraxas standeth above the sun and above the devil. It is improbable probability, unreal reality. Had the pleroma a being, Abraxas would be its manifestation. It is the effective itself, not any particular effect, but effect in general.

It is unreal reality, because it hath no definite effect.

It is also creatura, because it is distinct from the pleroma.

The sun hath a definite effect, and so hath the devil. Wherefore do they appear to us more effective than indefinite Abraxas.

It is force, duration, change.

The dead now raised a great tumult, for they were Christians."
 
EzekielCain
#23 Posted : 5/25/2012 4:12:12 PM
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Autum- thanks for the good read!! It's funny how one can be a pretty good wordplay artist yet words completely fail the experience of DMT. For example, the colors. Those vibrant colors don't have our earthly names, but one can grasp a little easier by saying something like "it was the color of passion, fear, and happiness..." but again, a catch 22 because I can't explain the color of passion. One could also say "well happiness is yellow" but we all know that the "yellow" we see is like our yellow hooked up to a Tesla coil and electrocuted...

Thats one of the most frustrating things about the experience: no matter how great of detail is used to describe it, it'll only be perceived as good as someone else's imagination will allow. And even then, to try and describe it only disgraces it.


Oden- you're silly! But you're also right in what you say. As glamorous as hyperspace is, its very much like this reality... It includes everything both bad and good, ugly and beautiful. I've had far more wondrous and mesmerizing experiences than I have bad ones but one should take care in the fact that too much glorification will entice those more unfamiliar into wanting to try it. It most certainly isn't meant to be used recreationally (at least there isn't a future which I see myself using this daily or socially)
 
SoulCrushingBass
#24 Posted : 5/25/2012 7:07:29 PM

Keeper of the spice


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Letting go can be tough. I've had many trips, mostly good, as was my last. When I'm a work I think, "tonight I'm gonna smoke the shit out of some d", then I get home and I just can't. I sit for an hour before giving up. I just can't feel completely comfortable and secure. My heart is pounding just thinking about it.
Well, y'know, it's like this experience that I had was like, y'know, erm, it was kind of the most profound experience I've had in me life, like
 
Tek
#25 Posted : 5/25/2012 7:23:29 PM

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SoulCrushingBass wrote:
Letting go can be tough. I've had many trips, mostly good, as was my last. When I'm a work I think, "tonight I'm gonna smoke the shit out of some d", then I get home and I just can't. I sit for an hour before giving up. I just can't feel completely comfortable and secure. My heart is pounding just thinking about it.



Happens to me more times than I care to admit. I typically journey on weekends and I'll wake up and tell my gf that "Today is the day!" and she will just smile and nod, knowing full well that if I say I'm going to trip, I won't.
All posts are from the fictional perspective of The Legendary Tek: the formless, hyperspace exploring apprentice to the mushroom god Teo. Tek, the lord of Eureeka's Castle, is the chosen one who has surfed the rainbow wave and who resides underneath the matter dome. All posts are fictitious in nature and are meant for entertainment purposes only.
 
SoulCrushingBass
#26 Posted : 5/25/2012 8:48:11 PM

Keeper of the spice


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Tek wrote:
SoulCrushingBass wrote:
Letting go can be tough. I've had many trips, mostly good, as was my last. When I'm a work I think, "tonight I'm gonna smoke the shit out of some d", then I get home and I just can't. I sit for an hour before giving up. I just can't feel completely comfortable and secure. My heart is pounding just thinking about it.



Happens to me more times than I care to admit. I typically journey on weekends and I'll wake up and tell my gf that "Today is the day!" and she will just smile and nod, knowing full well that if I say I'm going to trip, I won't.



Yup. I've been planning on a journey everyday for almost a month now. It is funny that I keep backing out, knowing I'm gonna be ok, in 5-10 minutes I will be normal again. My ego hasn't adjusted to dying yet.
Well, y'know, it's like this experience that I had was like, y'know, erm, it was kind of the most profound experience I've had in me life, like
 
autumnsphere
#27 Posted : 5/25/2012 9:04:08 PM

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EzekielCain wrote:
Autum- thanks for the good read!! It's funny how one can be a pretty good wordplay artist yet words completely fail the experience of DMT. For example, the colors. Those vibrant colors don't have our earthly names, but one can grasp a little easier by saying something like "it was the color of passion, fear, and happiness..." but again, a catch 22 because I can't explain the color of passion. One could also say "well happiness is yellow" but we all know that the "yellow" we see is like our yellow hooked up to a Tesla coil and electrocuted...

Thats one of the most frustrating things about the experience: no matter how great of detail is used to describe it, it'll only be perceived as good as someone else's imagination will allow. And even then, to try and describe it only disgraces it.


Yes, that's one of the main aspects that hits me every time. Every time there's a threshold where the thought "THIS IS INEFFABLE" runs like electricity through me. Then I know I'm there. And for a writer ineffability is freaking scary, it's like the moment you stop being a writer... And actually, if you dig into some mystical literature, all of the mystics, all of them stress on ineffability and paradox.

The funny thing is that there are two other aspects that amaze me:

1. The strong feeling that you know this. That crazy deja-vu: OH, THIS IS IT, it's absolutely, undeniably it. But then when asked what you mean by "IT", you could never answer. It's just a feeling that this is as clear as it gets, as strong as it gets, as undeniable as it gets.

2. The solace - it's almost like a mother's lullaby or comfort - everything is OK. Yes, there is fear and love, yes, there are opposites, yes, you are a woman and he is a man and you'll never become whole, yes, this is the secret of life and you cannot ever express it or give it to anyone, yes, it is inexplicable, and yet... it's alright. Always has and always will be.
 
EzekielCain
#28 Posted : 5/25/2012 9:42:43 PM
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That's right.

I equate it to being born. It's impossible to confirm because none of us remember being born, but going there and feeling the all too familiar feelings.... Thats exactly what it is.

You have been in this lucid place before. You've swam through worm holes and climbed spiral staircases of double helix energy into "it" whether you remember or only realize it once you return.


As simple beings its our nature to be reserved in order to maintain the buffer of safety to prevent harm and unpleasantness from befalling us. This is one reason I feel for myself, that for a fully immersive experience, I don't really weigh out my own doses anymore. If I'm compelled to do more, I'll do more. I'm always guided by some driving force that allows me to get whatever amount I need (I use a slurpee straw because of the handy little spoon part) and it's never more than I can handle.

I don't recommend doing it this way for everyone because some people need to know their limits to the milligram. But I put a lot of trust in my guide that I will get exactly what I need and somehow I do.
 
SoulCrushingBass
#29 Posted : 5/26/2012 1:08:35 AM

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autumnsphere wrote:
[quote=]

The funny thing is that there are two other aspects that amaze me:

1. The strong feeling that you know this. That crazy deja-vu: OH, THIS IS IT, it's absolutely, undeniably it. But then when asked what you mean by "IT", you could never answer. It's just a feeling that this is as clear as it gets, as strong as it gets, as undeniable as it gets.

2. The solace - it's almost like a mother's lullaby or comfort - everything is OK. Yes, there is fear and love, yes, there are opposites, yes, you are a woman and he is a man and you'll never become whole, yes, this is the secret of life and you cannot ever express it or give it to anyone, yes, it is inexplicable, and yet... it's alright. Always has and always will be.




Thank you for that. It's amazing how we can need reminding of something we think we would never forget. Every single time I say, "Oh yeah, how could I forget?". I know it is more real than anything. There are things like gut feeling, knowing you are right, but THIS, this cannot be mistaken.

The feeling of peace of mind. The reminder that everything is fine, the ultimate womb, no wanting, no pain, just completion. Feeling like walking in your door at home after being lost in the desert for 50 years. Just plain absolution.

These two things are the reason I keep going back. And the reason sometimes that keeps me from it. While I love it, it can be painfully saddening when I am coming back into my body, being ripped from the arms of love, as quickly as I entered.
Well, y'know, it's like this experience that I had was like, y'know, erm, it was kind of the most profound experience I've had in me life, like
 
oden
#30 Posted : 5/26/2012 6:23:18 PM

odin the one


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SoulCrushingBass wrote:
Tek wrote:
SoulCrushingBass wrote:
Letting go can be tough. I've had many trips, mostly good, as was my last. When I'm a work I think, "tonight I'm gonna smoke the shit out of some d", then I get home and I just can't. I sit for an hour before giving up. I just can't feel completely comfortable and secure. My heart is pounding just thinking about it.



Happens to me more times than I care to admit. I typically journey on weekends and I'll wake up and tell my gf that "Today is the day!" and she will just smile and nod, knowing full well that if I say I'm going to trip, I won't.



Yup. I've been planning on a journey everyday for almost a month now. It is funny that I keep backing out, knowing I'm gonna be ok, in 5-10 minutes I will be normal again. My ego hasn't adjusted to dying yet.


I truly understand this,and feel for you...
i had the same thing happen after my ego death...it took some time to jump in again..
take your time,when your that afraid,to me you should wait,its your respect of what can happen on a breakthrough, i even tried a small dose after a few days,and could not shake the darkness i felt coming over me in my room..but after some time and more work on my self it is going well...the fear can be so extrem cause 5 or 10 mins can be a life time..
Much respect for your honesty<3 OdenThumbs up
 
EzekielCain
#31 Posted : 5/26/2012 6:25:04 PM
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You're right about the saddening. I feel that quite frequently when returning. It's like my soul is weeping having to return to the limitations it's so used to....


A somber feeling indeed. And absolutely what keeps/prevents those in going back. I haven't touched it since this last experience. I may tonight after work, I may not. I really don't know what compels me to go to it when it's time, but I can't deal with the emotional roller coaster of pure love/energy only to have it taken away. And to do it time and time again with the same results, well that's just bordering on insanity.

It's so funny how quickly we want to get it extracted and how much time and energy we put into our babies and once we have the fruits of our labor, we're much more apprehensive in taking it as fast as we wanted it to "just hurry up and get done already!"

lol.
 
autumnsphere
#32 Posted : 5/26/2012 10:08:55 PM

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I have a more idealistic view. Of course you can't remain in hyperspace forever, at least not while you're alive (after all pain is a direct result of being alive), but you can hold onto the solace of the experience.

You can keep a vague memory of it. That's what keeps you going. And what's more: you can always ACT as if you've just gotten out of it. You know, this feeling of unconditional love towards everything and everyone - even if you don't feel like this towards people RIGHT NOW, you can tell yourself: OK, this has been the most powerful thing I've ever been through, so it has to be right. (Dunno if this is a logical fallacy but logic doesn't quite work in hyperspace, does it?)

So - act as if you've just gotten out - be kind to people, trust them, trust that hyperspace is within them, forgive them, and, of course, forgive yourself. I'm turning it into a principle. And so far it's been working out great.

I have a different problem. I need a system - I need to find a philosophical system that explains hyperspace. I really need to put it into some kind of frame, some kind of religious context, and I can't find this context - everything has discrepancies that don't describe the whole... Either you have Plato whose ideal world is abstract and indifferent or Christianity that says God is permeating men and is a conscious force that does good. None of it fits... I don't know, really, I'm dying to find something that explains it. At the end I'll have to invent it...
 
the middle man
#33 Posted : 6/2/2012 1:17:13 PM

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It sounds as if you experienced a first level effect of DMT but with extreme clarity. The second level will be even more intensely alien. You do sound well adjusted to these sorts of experiences compared to my own but I would like to wish you the ability to let go and allow the energy/experience to wash through you if it becomes too intense, all actions and thoughts are fed through this energy as it is fed through you in a cycle of mutual creation.
Day after day,alone on a hill.The man with the foolish grin is keeping perfectly still. But nobody wants to know him,they can see that he's just a fool,
And he never gives an answer . . .
But the fool on the hill, Sees the sun going down,
And the eyes in his head, See the world spinning 'round

Everything I write is part of the dream inside the dream
 
the middle man
#34 Posted : 6/2/2012 1:29:41 PM

paradoxlogic


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Would just like to say it amazing to see such open minds, driven by very unique hearts, truly communicating and using language in a sophisticated manner. There are some true wizards among you, able to shift the labels without forgetting the contents.
Day after day,alone on a hill.The man with the foolish grin is keeping perfectly still. But nobody wants to know him,they can see that he's just a fool,
And he never gives an answer . . .
But the fool on the hill, Sees the sun going down,
And the eyes in his head, See the world spinning 'round

Everything I write is part of the dream inside the dream
 
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