Imaginative, enthralling, wonderful! *****

What you describe is more like Armilus (Dajjal or Antichrist) trying to take messiahs place. You are describing the end of times, I also believe in this, but I also believe that true true messiah will stand up and win against him.

Be careful who you are selling your soul to my friend, there are some very deceptive entities out there

It may be math, but it doesn't seem like right math. I can see your case breaking down because if we choose any point on the spiral that's either infinitely far or not infinitely far away from zero and is an point with a known distance from "zero", then any point directly beneath it, is definitively not infinitely far way from zero. If the fractal nature of the Phi spiral dictates that it is equally and infinitely far away from the "top and bottom", then the bottom cannot be zero. In any manner, in the case of the Phi spiral, due to its fractal nature and the specific angles with which it curves in on itself, by definition it does not start nor end. It cannot. It isn't descending towards zero, it's descending towards negative infinity. I see your case with the infinity fractions. I don't believe this applies to the Phi spiral. Sorry to the OP for derailing the thread a little.

Eliyahu can I ask if you followed the bible before DMT/psychedelics?

Amazingino
--

I can understand from my post why you would think that....

-
I guess I need to really work my wording...

ANd I totally understand your warning is a good one and well waranted considering the weight what I'm saying

I tend to get "over dramatic"with my statements.
Just to further explain---

In my visions the Aliens or the "Yaweh Elohim" as I call them...

Arive in physical form to intervene and cOme to restore the "natural" order and take back the Earth after humans have already begun world war III and the nukes are flying.

Not sure if Yeshua will return in physical form as well probably no need for him to manifest himself is physical form...

Also I noticed on another thread you referenced the Quaran saying Angels were like Jinn and called them smokeless flame...I just wanted to point out that in the Torah it says "he made his ministers of flames of fire.""meaning ANgels...so Quite similiar

I would also like to add that from my view the creator created angels and the angels in turn created the world. wait- I may have said that already

ANyways I would also like to say that I know the Angels and Yeshua I have seen are authentic because they carry sort of a "Crest of ROyalty" that is also imprinted in my genetic memory and is not imitatable by demonic or deceptive predatiorail forces...

No way to prove to you what I have seen is authentic to anyone I can't smoke DMT with

...maybye you can ask your "friends"
If they know me... to see if they vouch for me our not...."The aliens that I am friends with gave me the name "Elijah"

Also I have imagined the government putting a fake up an "antichrist" type to control all the evangalistics but I believe this will probably be a GOP right wing type dictator of some kind. but that right there is just my pure speculation[I have never actually had any visions to verify this Idea.


Also If I had "sold my soul" I would expect to be rich or something especially since I'm a musicain but lo and behold I am poor as dirt...

3rdi >>>No My mom was a black magic practicioner new age type...
But I am not trying to rebel against her or anything

I met my first "angel" on LSD when I was 15...I met Yeshua on LSD when I was 19...

THanks for asking

cheers Eliyahu, thats quite interesting i was expecting you to say you were and that your psychedelic journeys simply reinforced your belief.

thanks

I'm a fan of the shamanic, rather than religious explanations for these states. Religion is more about living, shamanism is more about tripping.

Regardless, even most shamanic models recognize that some spirits are in your favor, and some are not. You might call them angels and demons, you might call them allies and evil spirits, they're the same thing either way.


Still, I think its a but hubris to try and use any other model than the shamanic model. And once you do, things really get interesting!

Aliendreamtime....


I do actually consider myself a Shaman and the Bible isn't the only book I reference.

I am also a huge Carlos Castaneda Fan as well.

I read all his books and I have even had the great fortune of having been visited by his curly haired spirit more than once.....Anyways, Carlos encouraged me to find the common truths that exist within all ancient religions and not just Shamanism.


I personally believe that Shamanism has been deleted, censored and removed in the modern versions of religion....and therefore so has the magic also been deleted and censored...

By my way of thinking Moses was a shaman that used a form of Acacia-huasca.
there are also many biblical scholars who think this....
And It makes sense if you think of all the references to Acacia bark in the old testament.

I believe these are coded hints to use acacia for it's DMT containing properties not just to build stuff with.

In my opinion the Torah is written in a code that cannot be understood properly by anyone that does not have knowledge of the code.

The baptism rituals That Yeshua adopted from John the baptist was also quite shamanic.

An old and wise forest hermit pouring trans-dermal cannabis oil all over my head and then dunking me in the waters of a river in the Israeli wilderness sounds pretty shamanic to me.....

Also from my experience the Torah is nothing more than an incredibly detailed guide to the spiritual realm...as a Shaman what more could I ask for?

Not sure why one would automatically make the connection between ancient deities and the DMT experience in any sort of literal sense, if that is what you are insinuating. As far as I can recall, it is a fairly regular theme in various cultures of deities that are cross between animals and men. I personally believe it's more rooted in atavistic memories and archetypal imagery than contact with any sort of living entities that plan on saving us from ourselves in a physical sense. Again, maybe I am misinterpreting some of your responses. But when theorizing a far an explanation when no proof is at hand I just go for the simplest answer available that doesn't require an ancient cosmic drama centered around some celestial origin of the human species.

vardlokkur:

I did not automatically assume that these beings were deities at all.


I was actually "shown" this by them....obviously there is no way to prove this...it's just my experience and has been the experience of other DMT users I know..

They proved to me they were angels because they presented me with a sort of crest of celestial royalty..It seemed like this crest or badge was verifiable in my DNA memory

Let me just mention that words like -alien. angel, royalty are just descriptive phrases that do not do the real vision justice,,,,just similatudes......

that is to say something that is very similar but truly not comparable....

something indescribable but it's the closest I can relate using a non telapathic language


I'm not saying all DMT entities are only either Angels or Demons. I personally believe that there are countless other classifications of "inorganic beings", extra-terrestrials or other types of entities and or spirits.....

As a practitioner of shamanism however, I will have disagree with the assumption that every psychedelic induced vision is just some type of psychological manifestation.

I would agree that some hallucinations are just delusional and definitely not real in any sense...on the other hand I would have to assert that modern psychology knows very little about the human mind by comparison with shamanism.

As a Shaman, I have spent a very long time learning to fine tune my personal awareness and disciplining my mental faculties....In my opinion this gives me an ability to discern "what is real" compared to someone who has an unclear and undisciplined mind.

The other observation I have made about DMT entities is that besides the insect/animal/sea-creature type thing I have also seen that they are vastly made up of things that I do not recognize nor could I put in words to describe.... definitely nothing that could be explained away by saying it is just "atavistic memories and archetypal imagery

I believe that sort of "atavistic memories and archetypal imagery" thing happens during mundane dream states and for "recreational" DMT users but not when your serious about dealing with the spirit world....at that point I believe the DMT experience becomes even more real than "normal reality"

of course that is just my take on it.

Saying that these intuitions that you have concerning such entities are verifiable but genetic memory is comparable to what I am saying by it being atavistic memories. As far as some things being incomprehensible, or not obviously symbolic as others, some forms seen during the DMT are comparable to some things seem to look like at the molecular and cosmic scale, and to me have similarities to what I would imagine the act of metabolism to resemble. While I believe that shamanism is useful in it's technical applications in the ecstatic state, I believe that archaic name-forms are only useful for helping to transmit certain concepts to people already familiar with the respective mythos. I don't argue that what is happening is any less significant, but am just trying to unravel the intent behind your original post, because it seems to imply that you are in contact with physical beings that created the human race and the universe for that matter, and that they resemble insects. I'm familiar with many creation theories, but I still do not see any reason to take them at face value until these "creators" decide to rear their ugly insectoid faces. I do not really believe any hallucinations are less real than others, and that delusion is merely a difference in perspective. But I do think it takes a certain amount of hubris for you to state that you have the ability to discern "what is real" compared to the average "undisciplined" psychonaut.

vardlokkur:

Not trying to put myself above anyone here
I did state that it was just my opinion that increasing your mental discipline helps one to discern what is real or not real...

this might not be true to you but it makes sense to me...

if you do not discipline your physical body you cannot expect it to be super strong correct?

....I personally believe that the same goes with your mind and spirit...if the mind is undiciplined you can expect it to be weak for the most part...


I don't see it as being "hubris" as you put it
(hubris... meaning excessive pride or self-confidence; arrogance.)

I do think it is rather hubris to assume that someone who does not practice mental or spiritual disiipline is on the same level as someone who does..

To me, this would be like a couch potato saying he can out run an olympic medalist, and that I believe... is truly hubristic.

Are you suggesting we invest in giant fly-swatters in the near future?

Olio....

Hmmm, I think I would be more concerned about the giant "people swatters" they may have...
(only kidding)

I tell you what though olio....I sure think twice about killing regular Earth insects after having these types of experiences.
Especially when it comes to bees and ants...
my rule is if it's not poison and in my house...I save or spare it.

I was merely making light of the situation, I as well abstain from killing anything. I even try to coddle and escort wasps out of my room and co-exist peacefully with the ants in my kitchen

Very interesting subject though, I have yet to interact with the insectoids.

Yes I agree. All I'm saying is that institutionalized religion is a far cry from shamanism in the sense that...(for example) Jesus was a Jew and a Gnostic. Christians are not Jews nor gnostics, so how can a christian expect to be like Jesus?

In a similar sense, the people in the bible performing shamanic rituals were *not* reading the bible.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that most institutionalized religions seem to have originally been a type of shamanic institution, but eventually became corrupt and even obsolete once they lost touch with the sacraments that made the miracles possible.

This is coming from an ex- catholic, by the way ahhahahaha.

But I havent read the torah and I can also see how it could be valuable in traversing the shamanic realms.

This law is the consciousness of all, we all project this illusion of the multi-verse. Everything in it, and at its core everything is god

During my first Ayahuasca experience I encountered a being that resembled an insectoid creature... this being was extraordinarily powerful ... as though a creator .. the features of the being were multifaceted .. and the being seemed as though it was "royalty" .. it's features resembled the crowns and so forth of "british" (for lack of a better descriptor) heraldry.

I encountered this being after a dialogue with a disembodied voice or entity like thought form that repeatedly asked me when I was going to stop denying who I was .... quite facetiously I asked .. "well who am I that I deny?" and I was instantaneously catapulted to a brilliant white light of such intensity that I could barely ground the energy .. it was more than I could bear ... though not at all frightening ...I can only assume it was source ... the source of all existence - the source from which we all emanate ...

At that point I was met by this "regal" insectoid like being and again, the intensity of this encounter was almost more than I could bear .. not frightening - simply more powerful than I could ground .. and I am an experienced psychedelic journeyer ...

Subsequent to his encounter, each time I have drank the tea I am immediately confronted with this being .. and even on a subsequent mushroom experience this entity immediately showed up ...

Has anyone else encountered this being?

Ok. So I've had DMT a few times now and the experience has always been utterly different.
I never know what the source that it's made from is, though I am now growing a few Acacia. Acuminata and Acacia. Obtusifolia to do my own extracts.
This last lot that I bought off a friend of a friend of a friend has been a bit strange. (first time I've gotten some off this person)
The first couple experiences were completely jungle like and mostly plant themed.
I keep reading about these "breakthroughs" and so about half an hour ago I just smoked the biggest one I have had yet which was 60 mg.
My experience was almost identical to what aya describes: A great insectoid being that all things emanate from. It kept putting a thought into my head: "I AM YOUR BREAKTHROUGH!! HOW COULD YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN?! I TAUGHT YOU THIS LESSON LAST TIME!!!!" and I seemed to remember it all perfectly while affected, but now that I am back to "normal" again, I don't remember ever experiencing that before.
I think I was so eager to have this built-up fantasy-like angelic, cosmic break-through described by others that I was ignoring and trying to by-pass this insectoid thing that wanted to communicate with me.
I don't know. Certainly interesting though.
I had Ayahuasca a couple times in Peru a few years back and it was almost always serpent/reptile themed except 1 time when it was totally bird themed.
DMT is certainly a strange strange substance indeed.