Soulfood, try using some Caapi ointment, this may help against mozzies, they don't like that. Forget about rue, they love that, not wanting to project too much!

I think by the answers of this thread its clear how we are all different, in our metabolism, expectations and prefferences. I suggest whoever wants to decide should consider just trying the different options out and seeing how they feel. ''There are as many ways to god as there are created souls''

Ah, it's funny ya say that. I've actually known caapi ointment to seem inaffective and had to re-apply.

I never had that problem with rue

Christian Endless put it well into words : they all them combo (caapi-rue-mimosa-chali-chacruna- extracted harmalas with n,n-dmt crystals, harmalas extracted with chali and mushrooms etc..).

And see for yourself, it's hard to tell which is best. I like aya, I used to love pharma it can also give healing and purging, as my aya brews do'nt always get you to purge by connect you to cosmos pretty much as mush do.
Each one has his techniques, they're all different.

Have fun with brewing and extracting and Bioessay well, I wish you !

"jamie, remember that the FIRST thing i stated in my first post was how little i knew about Ayahuasca, etc"

Then why continue to go on posting as if you do? To be honest you seem to know very little to nothing about ayahuasca other than the simplest cliches. I could care less with who or where you drank. You have such little experience that again your word here just does not count for much IMO. There are many people in this thread far far far FAR more experienced than you with ayahuasca and other brews that have already said that for them what you are saying here is not true.

This is interesting Jamie. In Peru i met some westerners that had drank Ayahuasca many times also, like 100+ times, etc..but did that help shape them into friendly, understanding types...NOPE!, it did not one bit. In fact i met some real nasty, narcissistic, self obsessed Aya types. I met this woman that spoke to her child like dirt, and i met other that obviously had a lot of problems to deal with, so there's more to self development and understanding than simply drinking lotsa Ayahuasca.

Drinking Aya 100's of times doesn't necessarily make us better cos we are all different, and i admitted to my lack of knowledge, and used what i have read and understood, and what has stood the test of time in many posts to give as advice, advice passed on from other sources. That to me is something nice and worthwhile to do, and my comments are as worthy as anyone elses wether i did Ayahuasca 4 times of 100000 times. Also remember that i don't just quote what i think, but what others think.

Jamie, the fact is that i was answering to another poster, then you came along with your own views. As i mentioned before 100+ Aya trips doesn't mean much because we are all different. I took Ayahuasca out of interest because i don't need or feel i need any curing unlike most people who take it. To state that you don't care where i drank Aya, or who with, is just an illustration into your immature and jealous nature and has left me dumbfounded, because i didn't make any point or even attempt to draw any attention to that whatsoever!



Neither do you! You said Ayahuasca is the medicine. It's not, don't you know that after all your Ayahuasca knowledge and experience??

Christian,

Self development has very little to do with peoples difference of experiences between different substances, so you've kind of verged off-topic a bit.

Btw, Ayahuasca is so medicine

I wouldnt take it for a cough or AIDS or anything like that, but it definately has properties of sustainable psychological enhancement.

No, it's not.

Ayahuasca is used as a diagnostic tool to help locate illness and provide information like where to suck out an illness, which medicinal plant to use as a cure, etc.

Saying Ayahuasca is so medicinal is a misunderstanding about how it is used.

christian, we are talking about general aya/rue knowledge. no one is saying that someone is 'better' than someone else because they drink more ayahuasca. thats ridiculous. you're just changing the subject

you've taken aya 4 times, seem to have 0 experience with rue or pharma, and are coming in here pretending to be an expert when virtually everyone in this thread who has way more experience than you, and disagrees with you about some of the broad opinions you are projecting...

and aya is referred to as la medicina for a reason. sure, there is way more to healing than just drinking ayahuasca. but that doesn't mean its not a medicine

thats one way its used traditionally. And you literally just used the word "medicinal plant" to describe the other plants used..and yet you don't consider ayahuasca to be medicinal..

tell the people who had it cure they're irritable bowel syndrome, or other ailments, without a shaman, that its not a medicine

why do we have to argue on this ?
Caapi and rue, have both medicinal properties (psychological AND physical-digestive system, detoxifying etc...) that have been studied and valided without the help of an expert shaman.
SO intrasequely it is medecinal, now shamen use it to foresee eventually. They even foresaw you wanting to killing them.
It's a complex paradigm apparently. Language one. to the body and to the mind. you know that already.

What's wrong with taking rue and caapi together? That's how I like to roll.

yeah i really love this as well. around 90g of this caapi vine with a gram of rue can be such a beautiful therapeutic experience

Hey there ain't nothing wrong with taking rue and caapi together, if that's the way you roll I say go forth and multiply, live long and prosper etc!! I'm just saying when I did it, it gave me a very thorough spanking indeed, and I got the strong feeling it was from the caapi and the rue not getting on in my system. I thought I kinda covered myself in my earlier post by saying we are all individuals and react differently to things, this was just my experience, I would never tell anyone how to go about rolling, only how I rolled! Hell, maybe I should try it again sometime, and brew the rue instead.

jamie - I think you're definitely onto something there. My first time with rue, I brewed it. It was really foul, and I think my friend and I ingested far too much. He passed out and collapsed why were trying to behave in a 'sober' fashion in front of parents, and for the rest of the night we had amazing tracers (come to think of it, only iboga can compete with these) but also amazing motion sickness and nausea for the duration of the evening. From then I think I tended to take rue as a powder and knock it back. Come to think of it I have ingested caapi as a powder prior to mushrooms and have felt sick but been unable to purge, but dry heaved a few times (which makes the trip suddenly vamp up, muchos). So yeah in the future I will only ingest each plant in liquid form.

the best way I have found is to brew the rue, then filter it and let it sit for maybe 2 days in the fridge to let the sediments fall out..then decant it slowly, filter again then reduce.

..aya and rue are different vibes..jungle plant vs. desert plant..water vs. sand..
personally, i find rue a bit more demanding on diet and headspace..
.

I think you have a good point, nen. Whilst i haven't drunk Ayahuasca 100+ times, i have the ability to read what other people say. They say that rue and Caapi are different, and what they like about Caapi is the way it gently and wisely comes into play. It seems that a possible issue with rue is that it comes on swiftly like an on/ off switch, and this can be scary especially if the other ingredients are strong doses. Of course ppeople will want to argue that i don't have a clue, but then again this is not my views, but that of others.
Some people also say that Caapi ans rue have different personalities, and i guess this is true. It is said one is masculine and the other feminine. I would say that they have different plant spirits.

I must admit, i like your water and sand, jungle and dessert philosophy. I have thought many a time that a continent should use the plants that are native to them, rather than mix with others. Of course this is debateable. I have also thought along the lines that it makes sense that rue would perhaps suit more marijuannna, opium use, since these plant are supposedly from the middle east areas.

In my firmly held opinion there is absolutely no substance that can come into comparison with Ayahuasca. Without the vine, it is impossible get the same miraculous effects.
There are several other beta carboline/harmala type alkaloids other alkaloids in Caapi besides just THH, Harmine and harmaline that makes Ayahuasca the synergistic marvel of ancient/future medicinal technology that it is.

Therefore, without the Caapi in your mixture your journey may be magic but it's not THE magic.

I do believe though that if you add enough Caapi to Pharma-huasca it just adds to the power of the vine.

People should understand that the pharmacology of Ayahuasca is so incredibly complex that it would be very difficult if not impossible to duplicate it's effects using only extracted chemicals.

While I can understand the advantage of Pharma-huasca because it gives one greater control over the dosage potency I would strongly advise to not ever leave the Caapi out of any Aya-mixture.

Syrian rue and Harmaline may be medicinal compounds but they are not forgiving whatsoever, there is no margin for error with these substances. They cannot be messed around with.
If a person takes too much of them, I don't care if they are the wisest most "experienced" tripper in the world.

It could very well prove to be the single most traumatic and emotionally/spiritually devastating experience of that persons entire life.

I don't find rue any less 'forgiving', and for me its easier to 'handle' than caapi at eyes-open visionary doses of harmala-only brews. Everyones different and our subjective experiences don't necessarily equate with everyone else's. As this thread showed- many seem to have a bias towards rue even without much or no experience with it. The thing with harmaline is that its much more potent than harmine, so of course you have to be careful



I don't see how this couldn't be applied to ayahausca just as much as it could be applied to syrian rue or pharma

some rue has very little harmaline..like barely significant ammounts. Actaully harmine is usually the dominant beta-carboline. Of course sometimes harmaline is the dominant..there is also more beta carbolines in rue than just harmine/harmaline..like harmalol..rue also contains THH which is something most people do not know. Usually the THH is in minor ammounts though..

Also, until you have really really potnet cappi you cant understand how sickening and horribly caapi can make you feel. Dose certain vines the way you dose the bulk of the stuff out there and you will be so fraken sick man and soo far out there you will take back your words on rue being harsher. I never beleived there was banisteriopsis caapi like this until I got some of it. I was sick for over 15 hours before with this stuff..puking and shitting and wishing to god for it to just end..trust me after that I was more and happy to just drink rue and mimosa for the next few weeks until I was ready to deal with that vine again.

This particular ayahuasca also seemed more demanding that any ammount of rue or caapi prior had been. I could not have caffine for days after I took that dose..no stimulants at all..certain foods I could not stomache..I puked even 2 days after drinking this vine. This was at 20g only. I doubt some of you will believe me but hey thats just life..I dont care to convince anyone. All I am doing is offering my experience here.

Of course there are some differences between rue and caapi..they are 2 different plants with a different ratios of harmalas from different parts of the world..still at least for me one has not been any better than the other..I work with both of them often and I would rather have it that way and have to sit back and pit the 2 plants against each other. It seems like such a linear and overly rational waste of time. They are both beautiful teacher plants and I dont think they jive too well with this sort of one vs the other thing..

Some groups who origionally started with ayahuasca actually now prefer to use rue..the Fatimiya Sufi Order is one group who started the path with ayahuasca, and claim that the ayahuasca told them straight up that they were to start using rue becasue it was the origional haoma of persia..Now they work with rue and various acacia species..and they also like to add hawaiian chacruna and sometimes they do add some vine as admixture. I think one member of that group was at some point a member here..they have their own subforum on the ayahuasca forums also but you have to be a member I think to view it.

Here is an interview with the head shaikh I think..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qgE_ibvqrw

Another group, Friends of the Forest branched off from the Daime and they also now prefer to work with rue and mimosa..

I think instead of sitting back and pitting one plant agasint another(especially when you have zero experience with that plant) we should maybe be thankful that these alkaloids even exist in such a wide variety of plants around the globe so that people all over can experience the amazing healing potential that ALL of them contain. There is just way to much left brain linear rationalism in this discussion.