This subject came up in a different thread some weeks ago. I did not feel like getting into it at the time, and felt the issue needed it's own thread anyway.

I think that it is important that we consider the potential consequences to our actions, especially in regards to our dealings with the spirit molecule and the plants that carry it.


I've seen people mentioning that they had ordered phalaris seeds online. Cheap too. The concern here is obvious--you do not want your personal dmt seeking activities to have an ill impact upon your local wildlife. There are moral implications here.

And this is a tough one, because for many of us, grass seems like the way of the future. I do not wish to introduce phalaris to my immediate area. Certainly some species of dmt containing grass likely grows here already. So I've been hunting. If I find a patch growing nearby, I will certainly harvest and cultivate.


So I'm wondering:

How invasive do you think phalaris can be?

If you purchased seeds and had them delivered, do you have any methods to keep the plant from spreading?

If you hunted them out....do you have any good identification resources to share?

im very skeptical of the term "invasive plants".

For one thing, there is no evidence that these plants act any differently in foreign environments than they do in their native environments. Phalaris acts the same way in it's native environment as it does where I am, where it is invasive.

Now, phalaris arundinacea is all over where I am..fields on it in some area..however it will not grow in undisturbed areas..it will not grow in the true old growth forest here..it only grows in areas that humans have developed, destroying the local ecosystem. Once that old growth forest is detroyed like that, you dont just get rainforest growing back because 10 trees are in themselves and entire ecosystem.

The "invasive" plants come in and seem to always be the first and many times the only plants that will repopulate those areas..so is this really a bad thing? I tend to see this as the earths cleanup team..hardy plants that can overgrow even a parking lot, setting up the base for a more dense ecosystem to thrive in tha place later in the future, by both drawing the water table back up to the soil surface and in some cases bringing nutrients back to the soil.

I dont know what it is like in other places, but that is what it is like here. Phalaris is already so invasive that me growing some in my yard is not going to change anything. The idea that it would is laughable at best.

Brachystachys, which is the only strain I am even growing anyway will not go native here I dont think. Not in BC where I am. I can grow it here but it will not outcompete any other specieies really IMO.

When I think "invasive" I think bindweed, phalaris, dandelions etc..yet I can walk a mile into the old growth rainforest down the street and you will never find one of these plants anywhere..go to a park where land has been cleared and then had grass put in, new gardens etc trying to make the space green again, you will find them in abundance. Alot of these herbs are seriously powerful medicines as well and have a role to play in bringing our species back into balance IMO..

Coincidence? I dunno..gaia is conscious IMO and something bigger is going on here.

I am not saying go plant foreign species in your ecosystem..but plants migrate, that is just reality..sometimes birds carry the seeds, sometimes humans carry the seeds..it has always been this way.

An old parking lot full of phalaris, dandelion, nettle and bindweed, approaches balace far more than a parking lot full of cars in my opinion.

If there really is any such thing as an "invasive species" it is humans. Something to think about.

There are certainly invasive plants. The reason they are so successful is because they have no natural population control mechanisms in there new ecosystem. The main hoopla about invasives is that they are driving native species to extinction. And are destroying native habitats. I can guarantee that there are numerous native weedy species that would populate an area just as quick, but would also be in tune with the millennia old eco-structure of that community.

I can agree that man is also an invasive species. But as conscious creatures have the duty to respect mother gaia. And that means that we must be responsible for our mistakes. You can say millions of species have come and gone, but we did not cause that. Mother Gaia and Father Universe tolled out those extinctions.

As creators of this massive re-speciazation of the planet we can try to be responsible folk and try to stop and correct our mistakes.

Or we can further disrupt our planetary vibe, and not care.

I can see somewhat the point you make, and maybe I kind of misunderstood your comment a little. Because even species like dandelion and bindweed can be native to your area, and still be a weedy species that overtakes an area quickly. And like you stated your little plot in an already infested area aint hurting anything. But it would be bad to introduce a species to an area already not exposed(if there is one for the reed canary).

Almost all native plants hold some sort of food or medicinal value, and so the influx of invasives is not a consciousness spreading sign from mother gaia, but a sign that we humans are messing things up. thats all in my opinion(from what it tells me), which we all have in common, just like assholes....

You live in Canada. America and Europe are quite different. We don't have much in the way of old growth forests here. Most of the square footage of soil that most of us pass through on most of our days can be described as recently disturbed i.e vulnerable to invasive species. For the most part, when I see invasive species I rarely get riled up about it....except in the not-rare-enough case when I see an eco-system destroyer.

I believe the "invasive plant" issue is NOT as simple as "non-native=bad, native=good".


But as unclesyd said


We should not be nonchalant and reckless with our local ecosystems.

..in Australia, where it is often described as an 'invasive weed', it really doesn't do much harm as it is a clumping grass, usually found near road edges and dams..you never see whole fields taken over by it, like some of the South African invasive grasses (Stipa robusta)..even european Paspalum is much more aggressive..
so, while it makes itself fairly common when introduced, it is certainly never 'noxious'..
.

In my Moscow region for last more than 25 years that i interest by plants (I was first interested by simple wild plants - for sound food in salad) ,
i have not seen no "invasive species" , which have caused some changes to accustomed ambiance. That interesting, along railway of the West direction i met much events of the germination for our region of the alien plants, but ALL OF THESE were powerfully oppressed and small size. Possible, these seeds were are accidentally delivered passing train. They have been able grow only in that places, where local plants have not formed the utter rug.

In the other years i tried to grow much most different plants from miscellaneous of lost USSR - a Trees, bushes and herbs plants on my area of the land grew only due to my protection from "aggression" LOCAL FLORA, local insect - vermin and particularities of the climate. I toiled crazily until understood that this is foolishness. - Naturally itself to feel on new place my stranger never have not been able.

When i have heard about Phalaris arundinacea, that began to research its area and particularities grow (as well as other local Phalarises). Phalaris arundinacea prefers to grow not far from flowing water. I tried to carry it and grow in the other place. - It became more weak and required protection from weed...

My conclusion: i do not deny the potential possibility dangerous "invasive species" . But think that this single possible events, which will don't care occur not today that tomorrow. - A cargo transportations extend since each year and hold in insulation some region simply impossible. Such a our reality.
As to Phalaris arundinacea, that in my opinion he long ago was already settled everywhere where only him comfortable. And if its no near by Your house - signifies that there him simply haven't comfort. Will better -is settled, will become worse - go away (or its is banished nearby plants). The Green World - an ocean, in him constantly all are changed...

Infact in Australia in most areas Phalaris aquatica is the predominant pasture grass.

^..wow..i'd like to see those pastures..
where i am i never see more than a few clumps of phalaris in any spot (lots of areas though)

So phalaris may or may not pose an actual threat to a given eco system.


On who does the burden of proof fall?


What if it was your own body I was talking about?

okay, first of all if people are growing the high alkaloid arundianacea strains than they are NOT growing them to go to seed..you can always clip it it before it seeds becasue you dont want new seed grown plants, you want clones.

You can easily grow a patch of arundinacea in an enclosed area so runners cannot spread outside of that area, and you dont want seeds so you can just clip any developing flowers as you clip the rest of the grass.

In an area like where I am though, that is just sort of pointless. It is not going to change ANYTHING. This stuff grows in every ditch and park around here..yet you will not see it anywhere around here in the old growth rainforest-of which bth there is alot of in the US as well, maybe not in europe I cant say.

Brachystachys is a different story because people reproduce the plant each year via seed..but brachys as far as I know is not invasive in so many areas the way arundiancea is. I cant imagine it going wild like that here. Aquatica would not naturalize here either I dont think.

If someone is growing a lawn of arundiancea in some area where it is not yet naturalized, yet could possibly do so than that is one thing, someone growing a few pots or a small plot of the stuff in a container of some sort, and clipping developing flowers is another.

Yes, clipping before they go to seed is a big thing.





Definately "first of all". Clipping before going to seed is a HUGE thing that can't really be overstressed. I want people to make responsible, informed decisions. As such all contingencies ought to be covered. What if you slack for a week....then go to a festival that weekend.....come back to find seeds have matured and gone astray....



My original plan was to merely order some seeds, grow them in a bin, possibly even in a bin within a small DIY greenhouse and then also harvest before going to seed. A system like that I may trust...




But who is going to go to all that trouble?


I feel more ecologically sound, more ethically strong, more connected to the task at hand and just overall more better if I can actually hunt down the plant in the wild and go at it.