SWIM gave it a try last night again as well.

+0:00 225mg THH
+0:20 5g Mimosa Tea extract
+1:00 50mg THH/5g Mimosa Tea Extract
+1:45 50mg THH/5g Mimosa Tea Extract
+2:30 5g Mimosa Tea Extract

At around +2:00 visuals came on, intensified for about 10 minutes then started to fade. He went downstairs and got another infusion, but was never able to get back to that point, or anything stronger. Took about an hour and a half to feel any noticeable effects from the THH. Good mild experience overall, some insights, and that super clear focused mind of THH.

SWIM is thinking that he should try a rue tea, get some Cappi, or try in a 1:1 combo with Harmine. Work my way up to the bright light of THH.

69ron,

SWIM could hug you now. He just had perhaps the most freeing, wonderfully floating experience ever. It took an hour to build, probably because of having heavy meat and potatoes on his stomach already.

6:35pm - 150mg THH taken with some Real Lemon.

No pressure noticed.

6:55pm - 40mg DMT taken with some Real Lemon citric acid.

Some pressure about what SWIM had experienced before.

7:09 feeling great. Slight movements when relaxing into it.

7:14pm Picking up some pressure.

7:25pm - Room getting darker and larger

7:47 - More action now. Maybe 2.5 / 10 intensity.

7:52pm - About 4/10 intensity. No geometry but when relaxing mind can see nebula like patterns in the textured ceiling. Characters swirling. No closed eye visuals.

8:08 coming back.

8:29 Smoked about 4mg or so. It clicked that SWIM was seeing through his 3rd eye, and that he was seeing a hole through realiting, and a lizard person on the other side supposedly creating reality for us to see.

It was very easy going, fluid, maybe 4/10 intensity at the most. No geometry.

SWIM will now need to decide whether to increase the THH or the DMT dose to next time see geometric patterns and experience a more powerful aya analog.

SWIM is feeling wonderful now. Light, airy, beautiful. Absolutely clear headed.

SWIM would recommend that instead of upping anything...to prime your body first...do it on an empty stomach then eat something light...such as some cereal or something...SWIM has found that if he has anything in his gut before taking the spice and thh..he needs to increase the dosage a lot...SWIM had what he would say was around a 10g mushroom trip off of 100mg harmine 50mg thh citrate and 50mg dmt fumarate...amazing audio hallucinations..especially when outside..and even had visions of the otherside

Will give that a try. SWIM has never done mushrooms, so this 10g is meaningless to him. But it sounds like a lot since he has read of others doing 6 or 7 grams.

Did SWIY do fumarate and citrate at the same time?

That was so true. Took about an hour to build, and was reaching the very tail end at about 5 hours.

It did knock my socks off, but in a totally different way than I would have imagined. I thought the visuals would have blown me out of the water, but the visuals were only 3/10 intensity. It was the psychological, emotional, psychedelic side, that was 8/10 or so. At parts, had me crying/teary because it was so beautiful, fluid, I was pulled too and fro like a plant in a slow-moving creek.

I would narrate to the camera (my own personal copy) and in mid sentences my voice would slow down, and eventually stop. I was perfectly aware of being there in the room, but fascinating how my hands would be moving and then time would seem to stop.

It was amazing how compelling, attractive was what I was seeing. Images of characters I felt for, and I couldn't help but give way to it. Or it seemed much easier.

So knocking my socks off psychologically - hell yeah. Visually - I've seen much more intense with smoked, but it was perfect. After 5 hours, I had to rest a bit. Even now, almost 12 hours later I feel very slight residuals.

I never knew the universe could be so beautiful. I got the sense that someone out there is in control of what I'm seeing. Probably some minimum-wage paid employee of some alien culture. Don't know, but they seemed fascinated in me and were smiling at me.

I also posted in my ayahuasca intensity thread, but for a few moments, I became crazy as the best word i can describe it. Suddenly, Jack Nicholson as Shining and Joker, totally made sense. I used to not like him, but I became him for those few moments, and totally changed my view on the whole thing. I would have made a good actor possibly, because I was REALLY crazy/insane, and it made sense. then I thanked the aliens for showing me this side of me.

the aliens are always willing to help..or to cause problems..which ever suits them

T+00:00 - SWIM ingested his standard 300mg crude rue extract (encapsulated).
T+00:45 - SWIM ingested his standard 150mg DMT fumarate (encapsulated).
T+00:46 - Sublingual THH at 26mg for aprx. 5min, then swallowing with water.

This was a more clear experience than SWIM's usual rue pharmahuasca trips. The debilitating effects were a little difficult to bear toward the end however. SWIM was admittedly a little fatigued from smoking and THH use on prior nights. SWIM also ended up smoking from a bowl that likely contained some crude bufotenine as well as jungle and regular spice. So SWIM went a little overboard, but there's definitely a strong advantage to taking THH sublingually to potentiate pharmahuasca.

THH helped SWIM with his slightly large dose of bufotenine last night..

that amount of spice would blow SWIM apart!!

3 experiments in an attempt to more clearly (and cleanly) document the bottom threshold of THH and DMT taken orally.


Experiment #1

Dosage:
80mg THH hcl
20mg DMT freebase

Preparation:
Contents dissolved together in 70ml warm tap water with 2 teaspoons lemon juice.

Administration:
Mixture was swallowed 6 hours after a light lunch, followed immediately by a light dinner (brown rice w/ eggplant casserole).

Observations:
- subject reported a mild unsettled feeling in the stomach after swallowing which disappeared as dinner was eaten
- regular monitoring of subject's mental, emotional, and physical state over 3 hours reported no noticeable effects beyond a slight feeling of mental clarity and emotional centering similar to a 20mg THH hcl sublingal dose (subject noted the possibility of placebo effect).
- T+ 2:00, subject ate 2 grams ground cocao nibs, resulting in little noticeable effect other than a usual slight boost to mental and physical acuity.
- T+ 2:15, subject smoked a small single toke of cannabis indica, with no unexpected results (subject noted that THC has the tendency to bring out otherwise dormant visual activity with low doses of tryptamines and phenethylamines, this did not occur).
- T+ 3:00, subject discontinued experiment, summarizing qualitative effects as: 'none'

Experiment #2 (+24 hours)

Dosage:
100mg THH hcl
20mg DMT freebase

Preparation:
- THH disolved in 70ml warm distilled water.
- DMT disolved in 70ml warm distilled water with 2 teaspons white vinegar.

Administration:
- THH solution was swallowed 6 hours after a light lunch.
- DMT solution was swallowed 20 minutes following THH solution, followed immediately by a light dinner (3 cheese, whole wheat penne casserole).

Observations (we will consider T to be the time of DMT administration):
- subject reported a mild unsettled feeling in the stomach after swallowing THH solution which disappeared as dinner was eaten beginning at T.
- T+ 0:10, while eating, subject reported familiar feelings of smooth tryptamine onset, including 'puffy, flowing, waves' of physical awareness, emotional fluctuation, and mental perception (all pleasant).
- T+ 0:20, subject finished eating, reported mild wave of nausea upon standing up, resulted in a burp, feeling passed.
- T+ 0:20, subject reported mild intensity of full tryptamine effects including:
--- dilation of pupils
--- distraction of attention focus
--- mild visual distortion of object sizes depending on visual focus
--- heightened visual pattern recognition / swimming
--- 'puffy, bubbly, rubbery' body awareness
--- mild synaesthesia
--- increased empathic affinity and emotional connection with others
--- however, no OEVs or CEVs beyond what was mentioned
- T+ 0:30, subject reported peak intensity of previously mentioned effects.
- T+ 0:45, subject reported noticeable diminishing of effects, and a noticeable sexual desire (subject reports an increase in sexual desire from all tryptamines and phenethylamines).
- T+ 1:00, subject reported a complete drop off of effects to almost baseline.
- T+ 1:30, subject reported a complete return to baseline noting the previous half hour consisted of only light effects similar to a 20mg THH hcl sublingal dose, and mild generic tryptamine and DMT afterglow.

Experiment #3 (+24 hours)

Dosage:
100mg THH hcl
30mg DMT freebase

Preparation:
- same as Experiment #2

Administration:
- same as Experiment #2

Observations
- subject reported the same oncome and peak timeline as Experiment #2.
- subject noted a slight increase in intensity of all effects.
- subject noted a definite increase in feelings of waves of physical and emotional euphoria.
- subject noted a definite increase of synaesthesia.
- subject noted mild CEVs consisting of swirling light flashes (very different from low dose smoked DMT CEVs which are more colorfully pattern based).
- subject noted a definite increase in visual pattern recognition / swimming but still no true OEVs (ie: objects, patterns, overlays which aren't actually there).
- at peak time subject initiated sexual activity with partner, noted increased euphoria, physical exhilaration, prolonged erection and orgasm.
- subject noted the same falloff timeline as Experiment #2, however with an increased intensity of afterglow past the 1:30 mark.
- T+ 1:30, subject smoked 8mg of DMT freebase (amount of usual bottom threshold smoking dose for subject to ordinarily experience light CEV color patterning for 30 seconds). Subject noted increased intensity of experience similar to 15mg smoking dose. Subject noted increased duration of experience with peak lasting 45-60 seconds and afterglow lasting 5-10 minutes during which the downside (1:00 - 1:30 mark) effects of the oral dose returned.

Conclusions (subjective to the subject)

- the minimum level of THH to effectively 'activate' DMT orally lies somewhere between 80-100mg, where 80 produced no effects and 100 successfully produced effects from a low oral dose of DMT.
- the different administration methods between Experiment #1 and #2 may have played a part but the subject felt confident that the dosage was the key.
- worth noting is that the subject will continue to employ the second administration method to allow for maximum MAO inhibition, and to have a clear liquid (water + vinegar) to enable visual verification of complete DMT dissolution before administration (only matters with freebase DMT).
- subject agrees with 69ron's method of administration (short fast, then administration, then eating), as it parallels his own preferred method for mushroom consumption.
- overall subject felt the qualitative effects were equal to a 1/2 gram of quality mushrooms, or a 1/2 dose of quality family liquid, or a 1/2 dose of cleanly extracted mescaline.
- subject mentioned a surprising closer similarity to phenethylamines than tryptamines, noting that although the experience was much like that of very clean acid, he was more reminded of mescaline from the highly functional clear headedness, and also reminded of low doses of clean MDMA from it's euphoric emotional and body rush.
- other similarities mentioned were a low dose of 2CB, or candy or hippy or desert flip (LSD+MDMA or mushrooms+MDMA or cactus+MDMA).
- no nausea worth noting, which the subject considers a success for oral DMT.
- due to the price, limited availability, and inability of the subject to personally extract THH, the subject does not consider THH an entirely viable inhibitor of MAO. While the experience was definitely excellent and enjoyed, and the subject will employ it for further tests with greater amounts of both THH and DMT, the subject feels similar effects could be reached much more economically with minimal amounts of cold water extractions of B.Cappi or pharmaceutical Moclobemide.

This is data from another thread, but it's more relevant here. In hoping to approach the spicy bliss described by 69ron and to a lesser extent, others, SWIM attempted the following:

300mg THH dissolved in water
~22mg unwashed DMT freebase dissolved in a lemon-water solution

Time: THH was consumed on an empty stomach.
T+20min: DMT solution was also consumed.
T+40min: Effects of THH are noticable, but *extremely* subtle
T+60min: Effects of THH reach their peak - not overwhelming, but pleasantly noticable. No visual artifacts of any kind, only body relaxation and a faint sense of stomach upset.
T+80min: THH effects fade rapidly. Nothing further is experienced, save that SWIM was dissapointed.

SWIM will be attempting a variety of combinations in the near future, including a larger dose of DMT, introducing dissolved harmine into the MAOI solution, and pre-loading with theobromine. SWIM is extremely interested in experiencing the positivity reported to be associated with oral THH and DMT, but appears to be quite insensitive to THH. Updates to follow...

The oral dose of DMT varies significantly from person to person. Some people get little effects until 100 mg of DMT are used, others require only 10 mg for threshold effects. That’s a huge variance.

Unless you know your DMT oral dosage, I’d start with no more than 20 mg of DMT and 200 mg of THH. Then double the DMT dosage (but not the THH dosage) for your next try if it was ineffective.

For SWIM 200 mg of THH and 20 mg of DMT produced the most amazing trip of SWIM’s life. It topped all of SWIM’s previous trips. But for some people that dose of DMT is way too small, they would get no effects at all from it.

While 100 mg of THH will work to activate DMT, 200 mg of THH produces a far better experience.

Many on this forum will tell you that oral DMT dosage varies dramatically from person to person. While SWIM can get a breakthrough with 50 mg of DMT and 100 mg of harmaline, others require 200 mg + of DMT!

Yeah, and that's the problem....can't have that many tries.

SWIM just got his harmalas today!!! He has 400mg of THH-HCL, 1 gram of Harmine freebase, and some leftover harmaline from a while ago.

The 200mg of THH + dmt sounds cool, but isn't sure if it's worth it, 200mg is a lot...half of swim's stash.

He's going to do the recommended pharmahuasca: 55mg DMT-fumarate, 52mg THH-HCL, 55mg harmine freebase, and 5mg harmaline. He's also going to wait 30 min and take another one (swim isn't as sensitive to drugs as a lot of people, so he'll probably take another one). Does swiy think that swim would be capable to make a new capsule while the first one is going? might seem like a burden weighing out stuff while groggy.

On the other hand, swim might just take one, if he remembers correctly, he had a miserable experience on 150mg of harmaline, which could be a normal dose for some people (maybe he is sensitive). No reason to rush, swim can always take 2 another time.

E.C.

SWIM wants to try 100mg Theobromine, wait 30 mins, then 80mg THH and 60mg DMT fumarate. By using theo instead of Harmine, he wonders if it will potentiate the THH any more.

SWIM ended up taking 4 of those doses. He'll update later when his head clears. It's now 12 hours past the first dose...swim still can't sleep. Insane trip though. There was definitely nausea....but surprisingly no purge.

E.C.

SWIM finds that to get the most out of the THH..its best to combine 100mg THH hcl with say 40mg of harmaline...the harmaline helps a LOT with the MAO inhibition..and it also smooths out the energy from the THH...keeps you from getting over stimulated..and increases the effects dramatically..

The trip was very tryptamine like (the mental hell-hole he was in was like a combination of overdosing on shrooms and acid). This could have happened because swim had a total of over 200mg of dmt, ~200mg of THH, and ~200mg of harmine. The trip really didn't get going until he took the fourth dose, and that's when it started feeling like his previous oral dmt trips (with just harmaline and dmt alone), it was definitely a little different, less hectic, but still crazy scattered thoughts.

SWIM might take a good long break from this stuff, it was quite a difficult experience.

E.C.

Sorry to hear about that ethnochemist, I wish swiy best of luck.

That seems about right. The subject from the previously posted tests reported, after the successful bottom threshold test of 100mg THH(hcl) + 20mg DMT(freebase), that 140 THH + 40 DMT would likely produce a good strong (but positive) experience (for that subject). Upping the harmalas to 140 using harmaline for the extra 40 instead of THH would seem like a good balance (without introducing any of the negative harmaline effects).

T-5:45pm 120mg harmine hcl + 80mg THH + 65mg Jungle spice Fumerate (MHRB/STB/FASA)all together with a little water and lemon juice on an empty stomach.
T-7:15pm Lift Off! Not drastic like smoking freebase but still with the uneasiness of not knowing how intense it will get.
T-7:30-9:30pm Plenty strong enough, can imagine that 200mg of DMT would be quite a difficult experience!! OEVs not too intense but strong, CEVs very intense and unbelievable colors. Felt like just being able to touch bottom of the shallow end of the pool of psychedelia but able to take excursions out into the deep end as far as wanted. Solid peak for two hours.
T-11:30pm Just about back to baseline. Nice mix, the dreamy quality of the harmine hcl was a nice place to take refuge when needed.

SWIM is glad that it worked out nicely for SWIY memo

he feels that THH works the best either at high doses..or with harmaline and harmine mixed with it...gives it a much harder punch