In this thread Id like to discuss a subject that a recent session and my own personal experiences and conversation's working with the Shipibo-Konibo and ayahuasca here in Peru has shown me.
I feel this topic is not stressed enough and i found myself completely ignorant of the healing properties of ayahausca in my previous experiences until i came to the Amazon to learn more.

What it comes down to is this, coming to ayahausca are you looking for healing or simply to make dmt oraly active? I'm passing no judgement or criticism's, I love tripping on various substance's but have been recently humbled at the healing power of ayahausca. Ayahuasca is most certainly medicina FIRST, visionary second. The reason I am bringing this up is to help other's understand their intention's as well as the unlimited potential of this sacred plant teacher.

In advisement if your more looking to trip, or have an oral dmt experience I would highly recommend pharmahuasca. It's less tricky, more sure fire and little to no physical sickness or purge. Pharma can teach and show you great things, its most certainly a valued and important method of learning.
However... if I could shed some light or perhapss you feel you already understand the medicinal properties and effects of traditional ayahuasca. For those who don't keep reading.

I came to the Shipibo with what I thought was noble intention's. I came to learn and experience traditional ceremony's. What I didnt expect was just how loving and patient this beautiful plant teacher is and how in depth and caring she can be.

My first couple of ceremony's here were what I was use to back home and wanting, mind blowing information and a visual spectacle that cant be described. Something changed after my 3rd and 4th ceremony. The visions stopped or turned dark and scary and the message was very clearly shown to me. ayahuasca doesn't tell you as much as she either shows you or lets you figure out for yourself.
The truth of the mater is I am a sick person. In the 18 months preceding this now 7 month journey I lost 3 close friends, one died right in front of me as we tried desperately to bring him back with cpr and first aid, another took his own life. In the wake of these events I turned to alcohol and other drug's to escape from the pain and grotesque memories and visions. Although I thought I dealt with this pain I've been shown i haven't and its turned toxic along with other struggles from my past as a child.

So in my pursuit of "doing aya" she delivered what I expected in the beginning ceremony's almost to keep me in the game and interested but then went to work scanning my body and spirit for sickness which plenty was found. The vision's stopped and the journey's became uncomfortable and at times terrifying. Frustrated but with the help of the Shaman's here I accepted and now saw that this work is a process and to be patient and open to it.

Ayahuasca clearly showed me this, in the sacrament's words;
"You came her in search for answer's and knowledge, however your very sick and burdened. Before we can show you these things you must be healed and free'd from the pain and torment you don't even know you carry each day upon you like a ball and chain. I will do my part but you must do your's and face what must be shown to you. It will be hard and painful and you must be brave but the person that will leave here will be healed and free and this is our wish for you!"

Ayahuasca has brought to the surface all my pain, all my anger, all my confusion in her loving non judgemental way. The past 4 ceremony's have been the hardest of my life but also the most rewarding. Im letting go of the past, healing parts of myself i didn't see there and understanding ME at a level I never dreamed existed. I stand in awe of the absolute perfection of her method's and love and trust this process fully. Each ceremony I go to bed exhausted yet liberated and need a couple days to journal and absorb these lessons and parts of my consciousness that have been neglected for far too long. In short I really had no idea why I came to ayahausca until now. I thought I did but my intent was grossly short sighted and I cant believe I almost missed out at the miraculous transformation that is happening now.

So please, I urge you to take a min like I should have and give some thought to opening yourself up to the healing nature of aya, not just the dmt trip. Its medicine folks, it has the power to transforming your life and bring you to the highest level of awareness, love and forgiveness.

Often times we read of first timers having dud's. Many have multiple dud's. to those brave explorers I say be patient and persevere. A relationship must be developed with Ayahusca and often even though you feel you got nothing out of the experience consider the fact that aya is scanning you to see what she has to work with, where you need help, and where she can help. It's not always that you screwed up your brew. A brew that is actually hard to screw up with some simple instructions. I now feel its more that not everyone is ready for the full montey but if you trust and see ayahuasca as a process I promise she will deliver. More than you can suppose.

Remember medicine first, visionary second. Dont forget about the healing. Dont rob yourself of the miracle just before it happens. stay true and open. Godspeed.

It's a great topic.
I believe many poeple here, including me of course went for the visions and the colorful trip, the synesthesia etc.... So romantic as an experience already of exotics states.
But you deal with your motion and most psychedelics don't really mask your pain and show what you have to deal with.. So you have to sort out your inner "mess", traumas and toxins, being physical or psychological...
At the end of the day many (or well, in my experience) turn for more healing, as it seems, after some time, you can't enjoy tripping if you're not heading toward healing or at least if you don't care of your well being overally.

Now about the substances, I feel I helped out many psychological dilemnas with pharma or LSD, although you can more easily use them for their recreational (especially lsd) or visonary value.
Ayahuasca can be a lot of fun too, but it's true that even with dark experience, you can feel an amazing glow that feel very "holistic" in his way (as a healing of both the mind and body).
I think also that's why some may turn in using different "healing" partners such as kambo, iboga and ayahuasca in their quest for healing.
Noting that kambo for that matter is almost nothing but some pain, struggle, purge, swelling... all this fire to seek more balance.
In my experience, you have to experience suffering in order to let it go from you too.
So the comfy journeys isn't always going to leave you with most maturation for inner growth.


That was my perspective and own feeling, and again, I feel it a very important topic in that matter.

There are many aspects to ayahuasca that are easily on par with the visionary aspect.

DMT is amazing..but at least for me, does not even hold a candle compared to what a full brew can do. Even a DMT breakthrough seems less profound in the end than some ceremonies with the tea that provide very little visionary effects. This does happen on occasion. DMT is an important aspect of the brew, not to be taken alone for me..DMT is also there to potentiate the vine as much as the vine potentiates it..it is *not* just oral DMT.

I have had nights that were not explosive with visuals or visions at all..yet these have still been some of the most difficult, uncomfortable, beautiful and ecstatic experiences..

Ayahuasca is energetc medicine first in my view..the visions are important..and they play a role..but they come when they are sopposed to come..some days visions are just not what is needed..some days they are. People I think get frustrated with this sometimes at first and tend to push it, adding way too much DMT and then loosing it.

Often times when people only seek out the visual effects they get ass kicked. There is no point in seeking that out..this is ayhausca..drink for long enough and she will kick you in the ass sooner or later anyway.

Ayahuasca is just soo energetic..energetic medicine..

You dont have to see hyperspace to tune into that energy..though once you learn to tune into that energy it becomes easier to find hyperspace..

Visuals are a head thing. Visions not necessarily. I have had visions in my hand for instance. There is difference and this should be noted. Visuals are thing you see with your eyes..walls morphing, patterns on a door etc..visions can take completey different forms and dont even have to be visual..

I have had visions throughout many places in my physical body..it is like synesthesia..and these experiences are much deeper and engulfing..more profound, at least for me than visuals. This is also where the healing visions take place for me..and it will coincide with the physical energies of ayahuasca I can tune into..this is why for me ayahuasca is energy medicine.

Energetically hacking the mind-body-soul.

Jamie, rOm,
such wise words fro such wise souls. Thank you for your contribution's as i know many will learn and see things in a different light from these insights.

Jaime, i couldn't agree more. The ceremony's i have had with no visions at all have been as impactfull as the full visual display of ayahuasca. Maybe even more so.
Last nights journey was nothing but thought and openness to see my life under a different set of eye's. my creativity is exploding out of me right now and i feel i don't have enough time to do all the work i wish i could.

This journey, this perfect amazing adventure has been to get me to this very point in the here and now. I will forever owe my life to the sacred medicine of ayahuasca and I am so blessed and fortunate to have the time to spend here that I have. I wish to share all I can with the community that has given me the courage to answer this calling.

OM'

to be honest i am not very experienced with either smoking or 'oral" (only two experiences with pharma and only one or two "breakthroughs" with smoking)... however i feel that there is something more here.. something much much more than i have ever "done" before (not that oral/aya is to be done (more like it/she "does" you) but ya)..

i was just wondering if you could please elaborate how to open ones self to the healing nature of aya?

(my apologies.. unfortunately i was not gifted with the "gift of gab"... and this is the best that i can explain my current situation.. )

Much appreciated...

The Dude

Your gab is just fine ,
open yourself up to what can be. Its just a matter of approaching ayahuasca as more than a dmt trip but recognizing the healing potential and appreciating with no expectations what you get. If you lay there for hours feeling little effects, trust that the medicine is still inside you working her healing powers.

I feel, myself included that many come to ayahuasca for the visual's and the information but there is so much more available so I encourage people to take up the call if it presents itself. Work with ayahausca as she will work with you. You don't always get fairy's and flying anaconda's. Sometimes you get what you need and its not always comfortable or what you expected.

hope that helps.
OM'

Ayahuasca is a chore - NOT a recreation. If you're in it for the visuals then you haven't seen Her glory.

Glad to hear you're finding Her OM.

-a1pha

I feel like people sometimes assume that a heavy ayahuasca experience(and everything I say goes for rue brews as well) will be just like a longer vaped DMT experience..this is a mistake in my experience.

When ayahuasca does open you up to that level of hyperspace it can be far far far beyond what vaped DMT can do..I remember the first time this happened to me..I remember sitting on my floor rocking back and forth in front of a single candle while neon birds flew around my apartment..there was some man in the room behind me speaking into my ear..this went on for hours..just incomprehensible until you get there..I did not breakthrough into another place, it all came through into my world and would not leave..this was just sooo beyond anything vaped DMT ever threw at me, it was more real than real and it literally scared the frak out of me.

This stuff should not really be approached as just a longer vaped experience at all. So people should be aware that when ayahuasca does take one to that deep visionary level it is definatly not a walk in the park.

Ayahuasca is not all about visions and visuals..but she is still the Queen of visionary medicines IMO.

Jaime,
I agree, with vaped dmt you are always the observer. things happen to you and are shown to you but you more or less are just paralysed to just sit back and watch. When breaking through with ayahuasca you are a participant! She not only encourages you to stand up and interact, she will eventually require it to an idle observer.

I love dmt, I absolutely owe so much to dmt but nothing can compare to being part of the experience as opposed to just watching it. Being present and aware while a multitude of spirts and entities caress and interact with you. Having the ability to formulate questions and have them answered. This has never happened vaping dmt. Ive never gotten to be an active starring role in a vaped journey. With ayahuasca your not only the lead character you can become the author.
OM'

Glad you bring this up OM! I think Steve Beyer mentioned that the people he studied in the Upper Amazon used ayahuasca primarily as you describe, a physical medicine, a purgative for meat byproducts, or to clean out parasites or cancers. Living in the jungle requires a very practical mindset, and the vine for those who use it is seen as a practical tool. Drinking to 'trip' would have been (prior to interactions with the Europeans) foreign to their mindset.

Still, I see no reason to be opposed to *responsible* *respectful* application of any of these materials for the purpose of having a strong trip, as many people seem to unexpectedly discover in the materials a much greater power than they imagined could be possible.

Good luck in your coming days.

thank you!
I too see no problems with what you mention. Our message here is to not miss the full potential of ayahusca's wonder's. There are judgement's or have to's here. Just the wish for the user to see and receive all that is possible. Im sorry if that message wasn't clear. If not let it be now.

We all have the right to explore our minds and consciousness in the manner and method we choose. I have always believed this. However, sometimes we know not what we approach and can deny ourselves of the gifts of what it is we do not see.

This thread is just what i needed to find. Im brewing 60 grams of vine to drink monday, followed if need be by a brew with admixture. I feel like i have been putting it off for to long out of fear. Ive struggled with addictions, selfishness had many losses over half of my life i have had these struggles. Ive been totally free of substances for 14 months. I still however know that i am sick. I have some very arogant ways at times. Self seeking ways. I am certainly afraid to see just what it is i have hiding in my phyche. I feel like i have a purpuse in drinking the vine , however it is a little offsetting to think of putting a substance , and one so powerful into my body after so long. I know that it is a huge decision, possibly one of the biggest i will make in a life time, rite up there with my sobriety perhaps. Thouh my hope is that they can go hand and hand, my ego tries to tell me otherwise. Digging through threads to find brewing and dosage tips can be daunting as they are often riddled with frightening accounts so i take heed to be warned but hope and keep faith that i am on the right path. Olympus i greatly appreciate you for laying it out so intelligently and straight forward. Ive also enjoyed hearing the accounts of your recent travels. Just what i needed to hear. Any advise would be appreciated.

Thanks for sharing. Take good care of yourself! Hope to hear more insights as they come.

What i like most about ayahuasca is that it somehow makes you 'softer', if that makes any sense.....all 'toughness', the shield around you that you may need in day-to-day life in order to protect yourself against all the nasty stuff, is simply washed away. It may be handy to be immune for all the uglyness you´d encounter in modern society (and maybe primitive society´s as well), but as long as you have that shield around you, you´re just not the 'real you'.

Point is, that although that aspect is much more important than visuals or OBE´s, i find it quite difficult to talk about that side of the experience.

Wow brother, 14 months sober!!! That amazing truly. As a person that's battled addiction in my own life off and on I know first hand what a mountain of growth that is. Good work.

I think your on the right path with a good mindset. I wouldn't get to nervous or worked up. I too after a treatment center for addiction was scared to go back to dmt after over 8 month clean but it all sorts itself out. Its how we percieve these substances and what are intentions are. Thats why I didnt see and still dont see psychedelics as an escape or an addictive drug. I see them as teachers and helpers especially ayahuasca.

Set your intention in your cup before you drink, I ask for healing and love as well as i often say im open to whatever you feel i need to look at and thank ayahausca. Always, always approach with appreciation and gratitude!

Be open to the process and above all be patient and trust the process. The shaman's always whisper to me, Poco a poca. which means little by little. so take those words with you as well.

Caapi only brew's i feel are a great way to start. Your body will need to learn how to take the medicine. I began with 3 caapi only brews myself and was very glad i did when i finally had my first big dmt admixture brew. It was too much for me at that time and my saving grace was i could feel the 2 different plants inside me separate. I could feel caapi keeping me safe with her love as the dmt was overwhelming me at the time. I never would have been able to feel the distinction without caapi only experience. If yopu have any questions at all about dosing or brewing please feel free to pm me. Id be happy to help you in any way.

Good luck, Gods speed. you will not regret this.

thanks for taking the time to reply om,

I will definitely keep your words in mind next time i feel the call.

wishing you well on your journey,

the Dude

Yep, That ayawhisky brew is funny stuff. I once knew a fella that came to the vine out of pure curiosity. The first time he drank it, he received an incredible display of the power those plants possess. He experienced the totality of his own eternal beingness. He felt the light of universal love flow right through the center of his heart and back out into the cosmos. He positively KNEW the right way to live. Then he spent the next several ceremonies trying to get back to that wonderful place. Instead, He got disapointment and dark discomfort. Sometimes he got glimpses of wonder and beauty but more often it was stuff that made little sense. Somewhere around his fifth session a voice said "You won't have access to that wonderful place again, you've been shown what you need to know".

A part of him still longed for that special place but he continued on and began to pay closer attention to the more subtle aspects of the journey. He came to understand that it is was mirror, a riddle of self reflection that continually exposed new facets of himself and the universe around him. He learned to be patient and became aware of a gradual unfolding of self discovery as he came to terms with the unfinished business of his distant past ( Demons? what demons? I ain't got no demons!!!).

This guy was pretty well advanced in years and at one time thought he had things pretty much figured out. Well he's rewriting his own story now cause he realized he was just a tiny little baby, But he's growing, bit by bit.

He said that once the vine is in you it stays in you. It opens you up and sets you on a course that you can never quite seperate youself from again. It's something like a soul initiation and just keeps working it's magic. That said, he feels like a person can get much more focused while in the hands of a good ayahuascero. I truly hope that he gets the chance to do that some day.

Thats a (mostly) true story. All kidding aside, most people who come to the vine for entertainment are soon discouraged and find it's not quite what they were expecting. Thanks to OM for sharing such an essential thread. I really don't know you but I'm so proud of the journey you're on. Keep up the great work and thanks for allowing my alter ego to take over for a little bit . Paz amigos,
Agave....aka the Cosmic Cowboy

At first I was using aya for a trip but i cant deny my soul screaming out for the healing. Its undeniable and the craving for the purge is there, patiently waiting.

lastnight I tried some changa with a friend, it was his first time ever hearing of dmt so I was a lil worried for him to try it without first researching but he was too keen on trying it so we went ahead with the ceremony.
I told him of the healing properties of dmt because he has a bad case of glaucoma and is basicly blind. ''Just inhale and while your holding it in, speak your intentions''.....+10 minsutes I noticed tears rolling down his cheaks. He was gone for 15-20 minutes and the only thing he could remember is something was scanning his eyes with lights or lazers. He said that it didn't seem like they were doing any healing but that he was just getting some sort of pre-scan....Who knows what could happen if he went for the full brew? Giving the blind- sight, sounds like a big task but when your playing with magic anything goes

This is a fascinating thread. I am also in the Peruvian Amazon, still pondering about doing a ceremony and wether it´s something i should even do, especially since i think it deserves a few goes and that one isn´t enough.
I could easily do it today, but still don´t know...haha