People always say- "Don't boil the Aya'"...

But then I see some videos with shamans in South America who look like they are boiling the crap out of it...

So what's best?

Boil the crap out of it. The shamans know more about this than anyone else. They've been doing it for centuries.

People are afraid to boil it too much because they hear about how fragile some alkaloids are (LSD for example). But the alkaloids in caapi are pretty solid alkaloids and can withstand vigorously boiling water for up to a weak without much loss of yield.

SWIM has Soxhlet extracted caapi for 1 week in vigorously boiling water. It produced yields that rival those in the literature.

So yeah, boil the crap out of it.

Whats Soxhlet?

Anybody wanna confirm that boiling it harshly doesn't hurt it (not that I don't believe 69ron)?

definitely boiling is no problem, but under the current times of ecological conscience, I think boiling for days is unnecessary, so much energy and not a big difference in yield/potency. Boiling makes the actives more soluble in the water, and breaks down plant matter to expose more of it to the water (also increasing the potency). But if one just takes care of breaking the plant material a bit further, before putting in the water, then a short boil (or even cold wash like dagger's technique) is enough

That doesn't correspond to SWIM's tests in a Soxhlet using boiling water. Extracting for 48 hours gives nearly double the yield of extracting for 24 hours. But this relates to Soxhlet extraction, and not normal boiling in a pot. In a Soxhlet, the plant matter is never exposed to boiling water, just hot water. But the extracted liquid is boiled continuously for as long as the Soxhlet is run. Running for 1 weak gives slightly better yields than 48 hours, but isn't worth it. It just goes to show that the alkaloids can withstand being in boiling water for 1 weak with no loss of yield.

What the hell is Soxhlet?

A Soxhlet is an automatic plant extraction device. Here's an animation of one giving you more of an idea of what they do.

At the bottom is the boiling flask. Above that is the Soxhlet. Above that is the water cooled condenser. The hotplate boils the solvent in the boiling flask. It boils away into the condenser and drips down into the Soxhlet. The plant is contained in the Soxhlet. The plant soaks in the solvent in the Soxhlet until the Soxhlet gets full of solvent, which causes the solvent to pour back down into the boiling flask. This process is repeated over and over for many hours until the solvent comes out of the Soxhlet clear, indicating everything was extracted from the plant.

Using a Soxhlet is like making tea dozens of times over and over with the same leaves using fresh solvent each time. You get everything out of the plant this way. But instead of using fresh solvent, the Soxhlet system recycles the same solvent over and over by automatically re-distilling it for each cycle. With each cycle the solvent in the boiling flask gets more and more concentrated with extractives from the plant material until eventually everything that can be extracted is extracted.

Holy crap! That's faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaancy boy! I just boil it over a naked flame!

Fancy is right

What I like about a Soxhlet system is that it filters for you, and you don't need to watch it. It’s automatic. You fill it with plant material, water, turn on the hotplate and cooling water, go out and eat dinner, sleep, go to work, come home, eat dinner, do whatever. The longer you let it run, the more it extracts. You can’t really let it run too long.

SWIM hates boiling in a pot. He’s spoiled. When using the boiling pot method, you have to watch that the pot doesn’t boil over, so you’re stuck there until it’s done. And then you need to filter it. And then you need to concentrate it down. The Soxhlet does that all for you automatically. You don’t need to watch it.

Here's my idea-

Finely grinding all botanicals...

Cold water extraction for 3 days in the fridge... (Pour off wash and save)

A three hour slow simmer... (Pour off wash and save)

A seven hour boil... (Pour off wash and save)

and then combine all the washs and reduce very slowly using low heat, adding and reducing the washs backwards from the order they were brewed in (Cold wash last, etc)...

What'd y'all think?

As for the thing-a-ma-jig...

As long as it's only heat and water and glass I see no reason why I shouldn't get me a magical automatic ayahuasca maker...

On that picture 69ron, isn't the water flowing the wrong way (Water In/Water Out)? In chemistry class I've always learned to have the water flow the opposite direction of the "to be condensated" flow to reach maximum cooling.

I'm also dreaming of a nice lab but theres just not enough time for it.

For 69ron: So... the "solvent" part... is that just water, in this case? I know soxhlet can be used for crystallized extractions, but for just making plain old ayahuasca... can the materials thrown in the soxhlet just be limited to the plants and some water?

You do realize that this is a 10 year old thread you just bumped, and that 69ron is loooooong gone right?

And sorry I got no experience with a sohxlet to answer your question.

Lol, yes I did know it was a ten year old thread, and no, I did not know 69ron was long gone. I was just going to PM the guy but then I saw his signature specifically says: "Do not PM me, just post in a thread" - so, I did.