SWIM just tried 10mg of harmine freebase with about 10mg of DMT. He got most of it smoked, but his lighter was being flaky and going out.

He agrees with 69ron's other postings. Harmine makes SWIM sleepy, foggy headed. In other words, a piss-poor DMT experience. While it had visuals, it seemed the Harmine weakened the DMT. Not sure if this is subjective or what. The lung itchiness seemed a little more than with DMT alone. SWIM missed the rapid chaotic nature of DMT itself.

He finally got his milligram scale, so he is seeing the doses are actually smaller than what he had measured before. He was surprised that 10mg was such a small amount.

Also, harmine is much fluffier than THH or DMT. It took much more by volume to get to the right doses.

Tomorrow, Christmas morning, SWIM will take the ayahuasca recipe provided by 69ron. 120mg Harmine, 80mg THH, 51mg DMT. Well, he spilled some since he realized baby food jars aren't water tight, so he might have lost 0.1% of the volume, not much. He is doing this to gain the experience, but might use harmine less and less in the future if it's much like this poor DMT experience. It was slowed, and seemed to weaken the DMT.

SWIM also is assuming by freebase, he was correct in smoking, and not taking sublingually. Though he'd like to convert the harmine to a salt if possible. He doesn't like smoking the harmala alkaloids. He'd rather leave that just to DMT.

interesting report, good luck with youre future experiments.. I wish I could order some THH, buti think its scheduled here in canada..maybe this elf will extract one day. He will, however be doing some tests in the near future combining smoked chaliponga alkaloids with rue and cappi(on seperate occasions),just out of curiousity. I really like cappi though, seems more clear headed than rue. Rue makes me feel heavy and much more nauseas than cappi, and tasts bad

SWIM has only used THH, Harmaline and Harmine extracts. He is not ready to go about extracting them all from rue and such. He lies this because he has very little nausea when using any of them.

THH is his favorite. Sublingually is the best. His aya experience tomorrow will most likely be an eye opener. He does not expect anything in particular. Whatever happens, is totally OK. SWIM feels like a little kid now, all giddy about what lay ahead.

I highly recommend much more in a sitting. (If you like the intensity.) I love it. Premix 100mg harmaloid freebase w/ 150mg White Spice and set aside. Smoke 100mg harmaloid freebase. Wait 10 minutes. Smoke 50mg White Spice. Wait a little bit and smoke 75mg White Spice. When you can light the lighter again smoke the premixed harmaloid White Spice. Then follow it up w/ more White Spice. In a 4 to 6 hour period I'll smoke about 300mg of harmaloid freebase and 600-900mg of White Spice. I have done as much as 3g of spice in 4 hours but it's pretty much a waste after a certain point.

wow dude..if you just ate all that you would be so far gone for hours and hours..if you are gonna take maoi's anyway..might as well eat the dmt with it..then you wont have to smoke at all..add some theobromine to that and its more intense than smoking

Just did a small dose of 11mg THH sublingually for 20 mins, followed by 5mg of smoked DMT for a reference. It definitely was above threshold, but not too freaky. Wanted to see how much THH would potentiate a very small dose. It seems more exponential. 5mg DMT didn't seem that intense at all. 15mg was like "oh my God", and about 5X. So the amount it potentiates DMT seems almost exponential to the amount of DMT taken (smoked).

SWIM will consider this theobromine. He likes the oral dose, and now that we can get as intense orally as smoked, that sounds like a winner. SWIM will order some theo soon.

just be very careful about it!! but i was really talking to EZ4U2shoot..seeing how he smoked 3grams in four hours...seems like an awful waste when you could use 50mg and get a more intense and longer lasting experience out of it

Jorkest, do you think by using maybe 100mg of Theobromine, the amount of THH and Harmine could be reduced?

THH is rather expensive, and I think I have maybe 500mg remaining. I ordered some of the theo. I would like to give 50mg THH, 100mg Harmine, 100mg Theo, and see if that can potentiate 20mg DMT.

Would these still all be taken at the same time, or should the theo be taken first?

SWIM would probably start with say 50mg THH and 75mg harmine...and 20mg of DMT when potentiated with theobromine..would be more like a 60-100mg experience..and take the theobromine about 20-40minutes before the thh/harmine/dmt

Not a complete waste bro. Actually, I always smoke a harmaloid freebase before and during the smoking of the Spice. When I did the 3g of Spice I also smoked about 4g of harmaloid freebase along w/ it. The thing is, after about 1.5g there isn't really any significant increase in spiritual level.

What I can tell you though is this. By the time you hit a gram of Spice and a gram hamraloid freebase, your entire body is writhing and shaking and vibrating so much that anyone who sees you will immediately believe you are very severely epileptic and having the seizure that will kill you. The difference is that you have a smile on your face that only a blissful retard could have. (Those were the words of the other half, "You looked like a retarded epileptic smiling laughing and moaning just before dieing from the most sever seizure anyone could ever have."

Now, I will double note, this is w/ the assistance of a harmaloid extract from syrian rue. I generally reach a level that is about the same as smoking about 75mg strait DMT but w/ the harmaloid freebase, I maintain it for a few hours.

The odd thing is, it seems I reach a plateau and a time limit wall. The longest I can keep it up is 4 to 6 hours, 6 being the max and only if I abstain for at least a month. What is weird is that once I get to the end of the road (4 to 6 hours later) I come down fairly quickly and nothing can get it back. I go from an ultra high peak down to completely sober within 10 to 20 minutes. Basically, that peak that you get w/ 75mg unassisted strait smoked freebase DMT is about the level that I can maintain for close to 4 to 6 hours and then it drops to nothing. It doesn't matter how much I smoke after that I can't even get a little buzz once I come down.

When I refer to the time that I smoked the 3 grams of DMT, I actually smoked 4 grams that evening. I smoked an additional gram of DMT and an additional gram of harmaloid extract after I came down trying to see if I could take off again but it had absolutely no affect.

Like I said, it wasn't a total waste. I learned, once I come down, just stop. No matter how much more I do, it wont do anything more. Lesson learned, enjoy the ride while it lasts and when it's over, just be happy.

EDIT: I will also add that I have tried similar things w/ a ingestion and combining ingested pharmahuasca w/ freebased fumahuasca as well and achieved pretty much the same results. VERY VERY INTENSE!!! Only recommended for the most intense spiritual experience seeking people. In fact, when I think about it, I probably would NOT suggest anyone to try the mega doses I enjoy unless they are certain they are willing to face it all head on.

I will let you know that generally, on trips like this I talk to God and fly with the angels. However, I will also let you know, that I have also looked into the mouth of hell, and believe me, unless you are willing to accept the possibility of the most horrid, it may not be worth it to you to risk it in order to see the most beautiful.

^^^^ To each his own. I couldn't see myself taking enough to get the bad shakes. I will give this theo a try and would be very nice if it lessened the amount for an aya experience. Theobromine is very cheap, 3 grams for like $8 + shipping, was about $11 total. Wish THH were that cheap.

well with theobromine..you can possibly cut it down to between 50mg harmala alkaloids..and possibly down to 5mg dmt..but with theobromine the potentiation for dmt is 5-6 times..so if you take 50mg dmt orally with a nice dose of theo(say 200mg) this will equal about 250-300mg eaten dmt..and it hits you like a brick wall..and say you take between 75-125mg THH(probably closer to 100 would be plenty) this will be an extremely intense experience..and its good to have a nice clear place to lay down....

with 200mg of theobromine..and 75mg THH and 30mg dmt...this would amount to about 150-210mg thh..and about 150-180mg of dmt...this would be an extremely LARGE dose for SWIM..he can get to something similar to a 10g mushroom trip with 50mg dmt and around 150mg harmala alkaloids...so to push that up 3-5 times..is a very very massive dose..and extremely intense..

SWIM recommends it to any hard head..because it reallllly sends you

Jorkest,

SWIM has been researching mushrooms and will probably be doing the B+ strain. But the PF Tek he has found uses 1/2 pint jars, and he only has pint mason jars. He is not sure if they will work, but he's going to look into getting a pressure cooker, maybe 15PSI rating. Never having grown them before, he's somewhat intrigued. But again, this thread is more on DMT experiences, but perhaps a little insight would help. Particularly because he is overrun with information.

pint jars will work..but you may not be able to fit all that many into a pressure cooker..

what you do is..inoculate the jars..and wait for them to get mycelium all through them..the whole thing should turn white..then you take them carefully out of the jars(you dont want any contamination)..and you break them up(you want to crumble the mycelium and substrate) on some sterilized vermiculite(im pretty sure..its been while since SWIM grew)

then you want to cover all that with some sterilized top soil..keep it warmish..and slightly moist..NOT to moist..you dont want it to be wet..and then get some sort of light source..it doesnt matter where it is..as long as there is some light shining on the top of the soil...once the mycelium gets some light to it...it will start shooting up mushrooms...you should get 3 or more flushes...and make sure you put more sterilized potting soil over the places that you pull the mushroom from so that none of the lower layer is showing...and make sure you remove the whole mushroom because otherwise it will rot and ruin some of your batch

So is crumbling the cake over the vermiculite preferable to setting the cake right on top of the vermiculite in the terrarium? The PF tek mentions to dunk and roll in vermiculite.

Havnen't heard of crumbling it, but that sounds like it would produce a greater sized flush area.

yeah..you get a big pie..and opens more of the mycelium to a surface for blooming...and also the top soil is then used as more food for more mushrooms...just need to keep everything very sterile..and with good flow of clean air..you can do this by getting some sort of filter cloth..research them on mushroom growing product sites..you will see what i mean...its like a breathable cloth..that filters the air and keeps any particles out..

once you get a nice good setup you can get some really nice flushes...it maybe even be worth making a glove box..just get a see-through tupperware..and cut holes in it..and get some rubber dish gloves and attach them into the holes...you could probably do it with some duct tape...and then you sterilize the inside with a spray bottle of hydrogen peroxide....just close your box up with the things you will be using to do the growing and you never have to open it..

you would want like a 18gallon tupperware..and then you can put say two or three little ones in side of that where the pies would be..that way you can close those ones..and then open the big one to put say..the top soil in..so that you can then close the big one and open the little ones..

makes a nice double chamber..and you will cut any contamination down by a HUGE amount...you would just keep the spray bottle of hydrogen in there..and spray down the surfaces..and then wipe them clean with some paper towel..to keep the moisture down

What did you mean by big pie? Is that keeping it as one cake, or spreading it around as you mentioned before?

SWIM might be able to get into this growing after the year. He's got some projects now that he has to tend to. He's got the tupperware containers. Just needs the pressure cooker, and syringe.

Not bad shakes... Actually VERY GOOD shakes. It's the amazing "spirit filled" type of shakes. I actually look forward to that level.





What exactly does the theobromine do? Does it do anything when you don't have the THH? Does it affect the DMT + harmaloid freebase combination as well? I also often combine oral administration w/ smoking and just do them both at the same time.

I wonder because I am a chocolate addict and usually have a few very strong cups of hot cocoa and 5 or 6 chocolate bars throughout the day. I eat so much chocolate and cocoa every day that I never really thought about it. Well, except that if I miss a day I get a most horrible head ache.

Checking into it, cocoa has about 100mg of theobromine per tablespoon. When I make hot cocoa I usually use about 5 tablespoons of cocoa for a descent size glass. So if I had to guess, I probably consume more than 1000mg of theobromine on an average day of the week.

EDIT: Mark that. Does anyone have reliable data regarding the amount of theobromine in various products including cocoa and various types of chocolates. I'm finding conflicting information. If the info I read about the cocoa powder is accurate, then I probably do consume well over 1000mg of theobromine daily. But I found some conflicting information regarding chocolates but no further information about cocoa powder. So I now find myself curious to know how much theobromine I generally keep in my systems.

After reading more about it, it becomes apparent that I'm addicted to the stuff. Like I said, if I go a day w/o cocoa and chocolate I get headaches that eventually turn into full blown migraines.

hmm thats interesting..what theobromine does..we think...is increase absorption of other chemicals you put into your stomach(not sure if it works with smoking)...here is a link to the Hershey's website that shows how much theobromine they have in their chocolate...and if taking theobromine with your dmt/harmala doesnt potentiate it very much..it may be because you ingest so much of it anyway..and you developed a nice tolerance to it...but give it a try with some ayahuasca..you may get surprised!!

http://www.hersheys.com/nutrition/theobromine.asp

theobromine is also a vasodilator..which means it dilates your blood vessels..so does alcohol..and a number of other things...check out 69rons LSA and bufotenine: potent vasocontrictors thread

http://www.dmt-nexus.me/....aspx?g=posts&t=3064

I have done ayahuasca and pharmahuasca as well as combined them w/ fumahuasca. Certainly, the most intense experiences have been when I have combined pharmahuasca w/ fumahuasca. In afterthought with hindsight I think there may have been a difference when I have fasted prior to a huasca session. As I recall, when I fasted it usually took more to get to the same level. I will have to check and test this sometime in the future to confirm it though.